have you known top 20% kids at the Big3 who have gotten shut out of top40 schools? ED Strategy help needed....

[Anonymous]

Going to an expensive private doesn't help your chances. There are only so many students each school will take. Your kid will be fine anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have you known a kid who was top 20% at a big3 (like 3.85+/1550) who got shut out of top40 schools?
I feel like this is such a crap shoot and we are getting no direction from college counseling. I don't know if my kid should aim for a lesser Ivy or Ivy adjacent top 20 (the recent data from this school DOES support a number of ED applications at this level for an unhooked kid) OR should he/she go directly to a school ranked 30+ (a school ranked around Boston College or Tufts).
I'm worried the kid is not going to get the ED and then fall way down through the ranks of schools.


Yes, in the end a 50+ school will be completely ok. But honestly, the kid has killed himself/herself for this damn 3.85 (highest rigor).
It's kind of going to be a let down if he/she ends up at Pittsburgh or Georgia or similar. NOT the end of the world but I'm being honest here.

Sigh, Please just don't jump all over me. We did not choose private for college admissions.
Just wondering what you would do in this situation.

I’m confused. Why doesn’t the kid just apply to a mix of schools at both tiers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you known a kid who was top 20% at a big3 (like 3.85+/1550) who got shut out of top40 schools?
I feel like this is such a crap shoot and we are getting no direction from college counseling. I don't know if my kid should aim for a lesser Ivy or Ivy adjacent top 20 (the recent data from this school DOES support a number of ED applications at this level for an unhooked kid) OR should he/she go directly to a school ranked 30+ (a school ranked around Boston College or Tufts).
I'm worried the kid is not going to get the ED and then fall way down through the ranks of schools.


Yes, in the end a 50+ school will be completely ok. But honestly, the kid has killed himself/herself for this damn 3.85 (highest rigor).
It's kind of going to be a let down if he/she ends up at Pittsburgh or Georgia or similar. NOT the end of the world but I'm being honest here.

Sigh, Please just don't jump all over me. We did not choose private for college admissions.
Just wondering what you would do in this situation.

I’m confused. Why doesn’t the kid just apply to a mix of schools at both tiers?

She’s looking to blame the college counselor if her kid doesn’t get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here-
I think my post was confusing. My kid has a clear top choice and it's in the 10-25 schools. he/she is scheduled to ED there. I'm just worried that it won't work out and that he should just directly try for ED a 25-40 school.

I'm worried that by ED-ing for a top (lottery) choice it won't work and he'll end up falling super far down in the schools he has options for. He is submitting EA to a bunch of schools but none of them are givens either.

ED Acceptance rates for a few top non-Ivy schools:
Northwestern: 22.5%
Vanderbilt: 15.2%
Duke: 12.9%

Chances for any kid are low, but some do get in. Why assume that is he doesn't get into his first choice, he will end up "falling super far down"? A lot of kids have dealt with these odds and landed at fine schools when they didn't win in the ED round.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's a crapshoot for all at the top schools, but you should be right in the mix for many of the top 40 schools from a top private. Worse case scenario would be something like a Wake Forest/Bucknell/BC/Middlebury placement.

Bucknell and Middlebury are better than Pitt and Georgia (OP's personal worst case)? How so?

I have been to all these parts of the U.S. I would not choose small and private and rural unless a kid had a valid, specific personal reason for choosing the school.

Sounds like OP's kid doesn't have enough definition to his plans/candidacy to feel a connection to any place. That results in needing to shotgun apps to play odds.

If kid doesn't have a hook, at least work on the reasons why to choose various schools. ED'ing a school like Chicago just because it will let you in is too cynical for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The private CC office would do their parents justice by steering kids in certain directions with top 20 schools so that the ED choice isn’t a waste. For example, if a kid wants to ED an Ivy, pointing out that there are 8 legacy kids applying early to Harvard would be a good thing to know! Not sure why this kind of advice isn’t given on the regular-even if you ask they don’t seem to want to answer!!

OP here. I tried asking CC this and didn't get very far. I asked if it made sense for my kid to ED to their #1 choice, given where others in the class were EDing. CC didn't give me any answer and implied that I was nosing into other kids' business (not my intent at all). Then I said "my reason for asking is just so we could pick another ED if the lane for choice #1 is crowded" and CC implied that I was making decisions on behalf of my child or forcing things on my child (which they HATE---they clearly never want parents talking on behalf of kids--which is difficult when the kid is 17 and barely came to the decision for one school--let alone is thinking through back-up ED choices).

I just feel way out in left field and confused.

I think they're telling you to cut the gamesmanship and let your kid ED where they want to go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here-
I think my post was confusing. My kid has a clear top choice and it's in the 10-25 schools. he/she is scheduled to ED there. I'm just worried that it won't work out and that he should just directly try for ED a 25-40 school.

I'm worried that by ED-ing for a top (lottery) choice it won't work and he'll end up falling super far down in the schools he has options for. He is submitting EA to a bunch of schools but none of them are givens either.

If you convince them to ED elsewhere and they are at all unhappy next year, they will blame you for not letting them apply to the dream school. Don't do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The private CC office would do their parents justice by steering kids in certain directions with top 20 schools so that the ED choice isn’t a waste. For example, if a kid wants to ED an Ivy, pointing out that there are 8 legacy kids applying early to Harvard would be a good thing to know! Not sure why this kind of advice isn’t given on the regular-even if you ask they don’t seem to want to answer!!

OP here. I tried asking CC this and didn't get very far. I asked if it made sense for my kid to ED to their #1 choice, given where others in the class were EDing. CC didn't give me any answer and implied that I was nosing into other kids' business (not my intent at all). Then I said "my reason for asking is just so we could pick another ED if the lane for choice #1 is crowded" and CC implied that I was making decisions on behalf of my child or forcing things on my child (which they HATE---they clearly never want parents talking on behalf of kids--which is difficult when the kid is 17 and barely came to the decision for one school--let alone is thinking through back-up ED choices).

I just feel way out in left field and confused.

I think they're telling you to cut the gamesmanship and let your kid ED where they want to go.

DP. I’d be frustrated in OP’s shoes too unless they treat every single family the same way? In which case they offer nothing a parent couldn’t find online, and it’s not clear what their purpose is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's not enough information for anyone to be really helpful. A 3.85 and a 1550 is going to get read everywhere. But what else is there? And what do they want to study? Liberal arts or STEM? And what's their vibe? There's a big difference between someone who's going to thrive at Columbia vs someone who's happier at a small, more isolated school like Dartmouth. Or perhaps they want a big sports atmosphere like Notre Dame or Michigan.

Generally, for the top schools, pay careful attention to where students from your high school have been getting in over the past three years. What was true ten years ago is no longer true today. It's a very different landscape. You need to be strategic with where you apply ED. Forget about HYPSM if there is no strong hook. And for DMV applicants, Penn and Duke are also really tough. Vanderbilt and Northwestern are also crapshoots for everyone these days. But for an unhooked ED app from a Big 3, I suspect Cornell, Chicago, Rice, Brown, and Columbia will give it very serious consideration. Notre Dame is very particular in what they look for, but if they fit, it might be worth it. WashU, Emory, BC, and Tufts will be likely admits.

But be sure to visit before applying ED. Mine with similar stats knocked off several schools after visiting.

I think this is the best advice you have been given. It sounds like from a parent that has been through it before from a school like this. I have had close friends with kids go through it at these schools, I'd say the following:

Do you know any parents from the last year's class - bc they tend to know a lot more info if they had a kid in same general range?

Beyond that, I agree with above poster. At our big 3, HYPSM wouldn't likely work with just the stats unless there is something differentiated.

Agree that Penn and Duke are hard and that Vandy and Northwestern are super unpredictable. Columbia, Cornell and Dartmouth are easier. Wash U and Emory and Rice totally possible. Also, it does seem like the SLAC ED kids do pretty well and more of those schools have ED2. Also, applying EA to some of the bigger state schools like MI seems to be a popular option and can be done at the same time.

[Anonymous]

So are you worried that if your kid doesn't get in to a top 20 by ED that the spots for top 20-30 will be taken by others applying via ED so your kid will fall to top 40+?

Our kid went through the application process last year and that didn't happen at our school. In fact my kid refused to ED and is at a top 20. Submit the applications EA or on the early side of RD (I have to wonder if colleges go ahead and consider all the apps from the same school at the same time as ED/EA deadlines are close). Lots of schools will defer EDs and your child will be considered right along them in EA/RD anyway.

I'd say the exception to this may be the rolling EDs like Wake Forest where kids need to apply early if it's their top choice.

Also pay attention to the numbers if your kid is applying ED to a small school. Don't just look at the percentage of admits, but also consider the total number of spots. If a school only has 600 freshmen, 150 are athletes/hooked, only half the spots are your kid's same sex, your kid may be trying for one of 2-300 spots.

If your kid has a clear #1, go for it thru ED, but finish the rest of the apps and submit to EA as well (or RD if that's the only choice). For many schools (ie Vandy), you can submit RD then swap to ED2 if you want.

[Anonymous]

Unless your Big3 DC is in the top 10%, coming from the Big3 is actually a disadvantage when applying to T20', because T20's consider the Big3 bottom 90% to be spoon fed brats who, despite all the advantages in the world, couldn't hack it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unless your Big3 DC is in the top 10%, coming from the Big3 is actually a disadvantage when applying to T20', because T20's consider the Big3 bottom 90% to be spoon fed brats who, despite all the advantages in the world, couldn't hack it.

Umm - not true. Tons of kids at our big3 got into to top schools last year - well more than the top 10%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unless your Big3 DC is in the top 10%, coming from the Big3 is actually a disadvantage when applying to T20', because T20's consider the Big3 bottom 90% to be spoon fed brats who, despite all the advantages in the world, couldn't hack it.

That’s what you desperately want to believe. 50% to 60% of Big 3 grads consistently go to T25 universities/T25 SLACs. Even someone who is terrible at math knows that means a large percentage of the “Big 3 bottom 90%” is still attending a T20. And the vast majority of the rest of the Big 3 students attend T50 universities/SLACs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unless your Big3 DC is in the top 10%, coming from the Big3 is actually a disadvantage when applying to T20', because T20's consider the Big3 bottom 90% to be spoon fed brats who, despite all the advantages in the world, couldn't hack it.

Grow up.

[Anonymous]

Your kid should ED to his FIRST CHOICE and first choice only.

If they don't have a first choice, they should just apply to a bunch of places regular decision.

Please don't teach your kid to aim low rather than reach for their dreams.