Spain must apologize for colonizing Mexico

[Anonymous]

These threads give amusing insights into the weirdness of what RWNJs think goes on inside liberals heads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There has never been a formal, official, apology.

Spain: the time has come. Do the right thing. Apologize.

I actually agree with you OP though no idea if you are genuine or just stirring the pot. Although an apology would be mostly symbolic, it could be a way to open up better communications and respect for ingenious people’s through central and South America .

The devastation done to indigenous peoples of Central and South America during Spanish colonization is on the scale of the Holocaust. People who belong to the once proud cultures of Aztecs/ Maya and Incas (among others) continue to face great discrimination and hardships even today.

“It is estimated that during the initial Spanish conquest of the Americas up to eight million indigenous people died, primarily through the spread of Afro-Eurasian diseases, in a series of events that have been described as the first large-scale act of genocide of the modern era.”.

We could learn a lot from indigenous peoples - such as treating nature with more respect.

As someone whose family is Native, I agree with much of the above.

However, also worth pointing out that the "Noble Savage" myth is also absurd.

Many indigenous groups engaged in regular conflict with each other, including wars of aggression and annihilation. Likely one of the causes of Mayan collapse, to cite just one example.

PP to whom you responded.

Yes agree that no culture or society is perfect. Some of traditional indigenous practices were brutal - however they did manage to maintain coherent modes of social and economic organization without destroying their natural environment or on the same degree Western societies have.

The Mayan were hardly savages but created an advanced ancient civilization: For example, way before early Western civilizations, the Mayan invented the mathematical concept of zero, developed a written language of hieroglyphs understood astronomy, created a complex and accurate calendar system.. They also implemented irrigation systems, and agricultural systems.

Mayans were forbidden from speaking their native language, partaking in their native religious rituals, and made to serve the Spanish through perpetual forced labor. In the 16th century bishop Diego de Landa burned perhaps thousands of books during the Spanish inquisition.

Spanish colonization and the Mexican regime that followed (1821-1846) led to a period of unprecedented regional transformation marked by enslaving and displacing Indigenous Peoples and alteration of the natural ecosystems and habitat.

Indigenous people throughout central and South America face ongoing discrimination and also disrespect for their traditional cultures and languages .

I agree with the New Mexican president that an apology is in order.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There has never been a formal, official, apology.

Spain: the time has come. Do the right thing. Apologize.

I actually agree with you OP though no idea if you are genuine or just stirring the pot. Although an apology would be mostly symbolic, it could be a way to open up better communications and respect for ingenious people’s through central and South America .

The devastation done to indigenous peoples of Central and South America during Spanish colonization is on the scale of the Holocaust. People who belong to the once proud cultures of Aztecs/ Maya and Incas (among others) continue to face great discrimination and hardships even today.

“It is estimated that during the initial Spanish conquest of the Americas up to eight million indigenous people died, primarily through the spread of Afro-Eurasian diseases, in a series of events that have been described as the first large-scale act of genocide of the modern era.”.

We could learn a lot from indigenous peoples - such as treating nature with more respect.

As someone whose family is Native, I agree with much of the above.

However, also worth pointing out that the "Noble Savage" myth is also absurd.

Many indigenous groups engaged in regular conflict with each other, including wars of aggression and annihilation. Likely one of the causes of Mayan collapse, to cite just one example.

PP to whom you responded.

Yes agree that no culture or society is perfect. Some of traditional indigenous practices were brutal - however they did manage to maintain coherent modes of social and economic organization without destroying their natural environment or on the same degree Western societies have.

The Mayan were hardly savages but created an advanced ancient civilization: For example, way before early Western civilizations, the Mayan invented the mathematical concept of zero, developed a written language of hieroglyphs understood astronomy, created a complex and accurate calendar system.. They also implemented irrigation systems, and agricultural systems.

Mayans were forbidden from speaking their native language, partaking in their native religious rituals, and made to serve the Spanish through perpetual forced labor. In the 16th century bishop Diego de Landa burned perhaps thousands of books during the Spanish inquisition.

Spanish colonization and the Mexican regime that followed (1821-1846) led to a period of unprecedented regional transformation marked by enslaving and displacing Indigenous Peoples and alteration of the natural ecosystems and habitat.

Indigenous people throughout central and South America face ongoing discrimination and also disrespect for their traditional cultures and languages .

I agree with the New Mexican president that an apology is in order.

The Mayan were indeed much more advanced than they are given credit for. They were also treated unfathomably bad by the Spanish who burned every book written in their language. Which is mainly the reason why their advancements scientifically and culturally are so minimized and underappreciated but they also practiced human sacrifice. Two things can be true at the same time. It's the duality of man.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There has never been a formal, official, apology.

Spain: the time has come. Do the right thing. Apologize.

I actually agree with you OP though no idea if you are genuine or just stirring the pot. Although an apology would be mostly symbolic, it could be a way to open up better communications and respect for ingenious people’s through central and South America .

The devastation done to indigenous peoples of Central and South America during Spanish colonization is on the scale of the Holocaust. People who belong to the once proud cultures of Aztecs/ Maya and Incas (among others) continue to face great discrimination and hardships even today.

“It is estimated that during the initial Spanish conquest of the Americas up to eight million indigenous people died, primarily through the spread of Afro-Eurasian diseases, in a series of events that have been described as the first large-scale act of genocide of the modern era.”.

We could learn a lot from indigenous peoples - such as treating nature with more respect.

As someone whose family is Native, I agree with much of the above.

However, also worth pointing out that the "Noble Savage" myth is also absurd.

Many indigenous groups engaged in regular conflict with each other, including wars of aggression and annihilation. Likely one of the causes of Mayan collapse, to cite just one example.

PP to whom you responded.

Yes agree that no culture or society is perfect. Some of traditional indigenous practices were brutal - however they did manage to maintain coherent modes of social and economic organization without destroying their natural environment or on the same degree Western societies have.

The Mayan were hardly savages but created an advanced ancient civilization: For example, way before early Western civilizations, the Mayan invented the mathematical concept of zero, developed a written language of hieroglyphs understood astronomy, created a complex and accurate calendar system.. They also implemented irrigation systems, and agricultural systems.

Mayans were forbidden from speaking their native language, partaking in their native religious rituals, and made to serve the Spanish through perpetual forced labor. In the 16th century bishop Diego de Landa burned perhaps thousands of books during the Spanish inquisition.

Spanish colonization and the Mexican regime that followed (1821-1846) led to a period of unprecedented regional transformation marked by enslaving and displacing Indigenous Peoples and alteration of the natural ecosystems and habitat.

Indigenous people throughout central and South America face ongoing discrimination and also disrespect for their traditional cultures and languages .

I agree with the New Mexican president that an apology is in order.

The Aztec destroyed most of the the Maya civilization.
The Maya destroyed the Olmec civilization.
The history of humans has been war and conquest and slavery since the beginning we crawled out of the trees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There has never been a formal, official, apology.

Spain: the time has come. Do the right thing. Apologize.

I actually agree with you OP though no idea if you are genuine or just stirring the pot. Although an apology would be mostly symbolic, it could be a way to open up better communications and respect for ingenious people’s through central and South America .

The devastation done to indigenous peoples of Central and South America during Spanish colonization is on the scale of the Holocaust. People who belong to the once proud cultures of Aztecs/ Maya and Incas (among others) continue to face great discrimination and hardships even today.

“It is estimated that during the initial Spanish conquest of the Americas up to eight million indigenous people died, primarily through the spread of Afro-Eurasian diseases, in a series of events that have been described as the first large-scale act of genocide of the modern era.”.

We could learn a lot from indigenous peoples - such as treating nature with more respect.

As someone whose family is Native, I agree with much of the above.

However, also worth pointing out that the "Noble Savage" myth is also absurd.

Many indigenous groups engaged in regular conflict with each other, including wars of aggression and annihilation. Likely one of the causes of Mayan collapse, to cite just one example.

PP to whom you responded.

Yes agree that no culture or society is perfect. Some of traditional indigenous practices were brutal - however they did manage to maintain coherent modes of social and economic organization without destroying their natural environment or on the same degree Western societies have.

The Mayan were hardly savages but created an advanced ancient civilization: For example, way before early Western civilizations, the Mayan invented the mathematical concept of zero, developed a written language of hieroglyphs understood astronomy, created a complex and accurate calendar system.. They also implemented irrigation systems, and agricultural systems.

Mayans were forbidden from speaking their native language, partaking in their native religious rituals, and made to serve the Spanish through perpetual forced labor. In the 16th century bishop Diego de Landa burned perhaps thousands of books during the Spanish inquisition.

Spanish colonization and the Mexican regime that followed (1821-1846) led to a period of unprecedented regional transformation marked by enslaving and displacing Indigenous Peoples and alteration of the natural ecosystems and habitat.

Indigenous people throughout central and South America face ongoing discrimination and also disrespect for their traditional cultures and languages .

I agree with the New Mexican president that an apology is in order.

The Aztec destroyed most of the the Maya civilization.
The Maya destroyed the Olmec civilization.
The history of humans has been war and conquest and slavery since the beginning we crawled out of the trees.

PP to whom you responded

There are different theories for what caused the decline of ancient Mayan civilization. Scholars various potential reasons for the downfall of Maya civilization in the southern lowlands, including overpopulation, environmental degradation, warfare, shifting trade routes and extended drought

Scholars don’t think that the Aztecs destroyed ancient Mayan civilizations. The Mayans were in decline as a civilization - their cities were much smaller, their overall influence was shrinking and their great capitals had almost all been abandoned before the Aztecs even started growing out of the Texcoco lake.

Even if modern Maya were not living in grand cities prior the Spanish they still had their own languages and cultures. Being enslaved and not allowed to speak their own languages or religious practices (apart from human sacrifice) is a great injustice. Literally millions of indigenous people died during Spanish colonization.

An apology and acknowledgement of the huge costs to indigenous Americans is the least Spain can do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There has never been a formal, official, apology.

Spain: the time has come. Do the right thing. Apologize.

I actually agree with you OP though no idea if you are genuine or just stirring the pot. Although an apology would be mostly symbolic, it could be a way to open up better communications and respect for ingenious people’s through central and South America .

The devastation done to indigenous peoples of Central and South America during Spanish colonization is on the scale of the Holocaust. People who belong to the once proud cultures of Aztecs/ Maya and Incas (among others) continue to face great discrimination and hardships even today.

“It is estimated that during the initial Spanish conquest of the Americas up to eight million indigenous people died, primarily through the spread of Afro-Eurasian diseases, in a series of events that have been described as the first large-scale act of genocide of the modern era.”.

We could learn a lot from indigenous peoples - such as treating nature with more respect.

As someone whose family is Native, I agree with much of the above.

However, also worth pointing out that the "Noble Savage" myth is also absurd.

Many indigenous groups engaged in regular conflict with each other, including wars of aggression and annihilation. Likely one of the causes of Mayan collapse, to cite just one example.

PP to whom you responded.

Yes agree that no culture or society is perfect. Some of traditional indigenous practices were brutal - however they did manage to maintain coherent modes of social and economic organization without destroying their natural environment or on the same degree Western societies have.

The Mayan were hardly savages but created an advanced ancient civilization: For example, way before early Western civilizations, the Mayan invented the mathematical concept of zero, developed a written language of hieroglyphs understood astronomy, created a complex and accurate calendar system.. They also implemented irrigation systems, and agricultural systems.

Mayans were forbidden from speaking their native language, partaking in their native religious rituals, and made to serve the Spanish through perpetual forced labor. In the 16th century bishop Diego de Landa burned perhaps thousands of books during the Spanish inquisition.

Spanish colonization and the Mexican regime that followed (1821-1846) led to a period of unprecedented regional transformation marked by enslaving and displacing Indigenous Peoples and alteration of the natural ecosystems and habitat.

Indigenous people throughout central and South America face ongoing discrimination and also disrespect for their traditional cultures and languages .

I agree with the New Mexican president that an apology is in order.

The Mayan were indeed much more advanced than they are given credit for. They were also treated unfathomably bad by the Spanish who burned every book written in their language. Which is mainly the reason why their advancements scientifically and culturally are so minimized and underappreciated but they also practiced human sacrifice. Two things can be true at the same time. It's the duality of man.

PP to whom you replied

I agree on both counts.

The Spanish could have outlawed human sacrifice without enslaving and killing so many indigenous peoples.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There has never been a formal, official, apology.

Spain: the time has come. Do the right thing. Apologize.

I actually agree with you OP though no idea if you are genuine or just stirring the pot. Although an apology would be mostly symbolic, it could be a way to open up better communications and respect for ingenious people’s through central and South America .

The devastation done to indigenous peoples of Central and South America during Spanish colonization is on the scale of the Holocaust. People who belong to the once proud cultures of Aztecs/ Maya and Incas (among others) continue to face great discrimination and hardships even today.

“It is estimated that during the initial Spanish conquest of the Americas up to eight million indigenous people died, primarily through the spread of Afro-Eurasian diseases, in a series of events that have been described as the first large-scale act of genocide of the modern era.”.

We could learn a lot from indigenous peoples - such as treating nature with more respect.

As someone whose family is Native, I agree with much of the above.

However, also worth pointing out that the "Noble Savage" myth is also absurd.

Many indigenous groups engaged in regular conflict with each other, including wars of aggression and annihilation. Likely one of the causes of Mayan collapse, to cite just one example.

PP to whom you responded.

Yes agree that no culture or society is perfect. Some of traditional indigenous practices were brutal - however they did manage to maintain coherent modes of social and economic organization without destroying their natural environment or on the same degree Western societies have.

The Mayan were hardly savages but created an advanced ancient civilization: For example, way before early Western civilizations, the Mayan invented the mathematical concept of zero, developed a written language of hieroglyphs understood astronomy, created a complex and accurate calendar system.. They also implemented irrigation systems, and agricultural systems.

Mayans were forbidden from speaking their native language, partaking in their native religious rituals, and made to serve the Spanish through perpetual forced labor. In the 16th century bishop Diego de Landa burned perhaps thousands of books during the Spanish inquisition.

Spanish colonization and the Mexican regime that followed (1821-1846) led to a period of unprecedented regional transformation marked by enslaving and displacing Indigenous Peoples and alteration of the natural ecosystems and habitat.

Indigenous people throughout central and South America face ongoing discrimination and also disrespect for their traditional cultures and languages .

I agree with the New Mexican president that an apology is in order.

The Aztec destroyed most of the the Maya civilization.
The Maya destroyed the Olmec civilization.
The history of humans has been war and conquest and slavery since the beginning we crawled out of the trees.

PP to whom you responded

There are different theories for what caused the decline of ancient Mayan civilization. Scholars various potential reasons for the downfall of Maya civilization in the southern lowlands, including overpopulation, environmental degradation, warfare, shifting trade routes and extended drought

Scholars don’t think that the Aztecs destroyed ancient Mayan civilizations. The Mayans were in decline as a civilization - their cities were much smaller, their overall influence was shrinking and their great capitals had almost all been abandoned before the Aztecs even started growing out of the Texcoco lake.

Even if modern Maya were not living in grand cities prior the Spanish they still had their own languages and cultures. Being enslaved and not allowed to speak their own languages or religious practices (apart from human sacrifice) is a great injustice. Literally millions of indigenous people died during Spanish colonization.

An apology and acknowledgement of the huge costs to indigenous Americans is the least Spain can do.

All that is true. Erasing an entire civilization's history, language and culture is Tier 1 colonial evil. But the Mexican government since independence generally hasn't been much better.

For what it's worth, the Aztec experience is a bit more complicated. The Spanish defeated the Aztecs militarily in a relatively big war. They did this by forming a military alliance with the other city-states. Those city-states joined in because of how bad the Aztecs were oppressing them. It wasn't quite the glorious white savior reverse Alamo that it was made out to be by the European history books.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There has never been a formal, official, apology.

Spain: the time has come. Do the right thing. Apologize.

I actually agree with you OP though no idea if you are genuine or just stirring the pot. Although an apology would be mostly symbolic, it could be a way to open up better communications and respect for ingenious people’s through central and South America .

The devastation done to indigenous peoples of Central and South America during Spanish colonization is on the scale of the Holocaust. People who belong to the once proud cultures of Aztecs/ Maya and Incas (among others) continue to face great discrimination and hardships even today.

“It is estimated that during the initial Spanish conquest of the Americas up to eight million indigenous people died, primarily through the spread of Afro-Eurasian diseases, in a series of events that have been described as the first large-scale act of genocide of the modern era.”.

We could learn a lot from indigenous peoples - such as treating nature with more respect.

As someone whose family is Native, I agree with much of the above.

However, also worth pointing out that the "Noble Savage" myth is also absurd.

Many indigenous groups engaged in regular conflict with each other, including wars of aggression and annihilation. Likely one of the causes of Mayan collapse, to cite just one example.

PP to whom you responded.

Yes agree that no culture or society is perfect. Some of traditional indigenous practices were brutal - however they did manage to maintain coherent modes of social and economic organization without destroying their natural environment or on the same degree Western societies have.

The Mayan were hardly savages but created an advanced ancient civilization: For example, way before early Western civilizations, the Mayan invented the mathematical concept of zero, developed a written language of hieroglyphs understood astronomy, created a complex and accurate calendar system.. They also implemented irrigation systems, and agricultural systems.

Mayans were forbidden from speaking their native language, partaking in their native religious rituals, and made to serve the Spanish through perpetual forced labor. In the 16th century bishop Diego de Landa burned perhaps thousands of books during the Spanish inquisition.

Spanish colonization and the Mexican regime that followed (1821-1846) led to a period of unprecedented regional transformation marked by enslaving and displacing Indigenous Peoples and alteration of the natural ecosystems and habitat.

Indigenous people throughout central and South America face ongoing discrimination and also disrespect for their traditional cultures and languages .

I agree with the New Mexican president that an apology is in order.

The Aztec destroyed most of the the Maya civilization.
The Maya destroyed the Olmec civilization.
The history of humans has been war and conquest and slavery since the beginning we crawled out of the trees.

PP to whom you responded

There are different theories for what caused the decline of ancient Mayan civilization. Scholars various potential reasons for the downfall of Maya civilization in the southern lowlands, including overpopulation, environmental degradation, warfare, shifting trade routes and extended drought

Scholars don’t think that the Aztecs destroyed ancient Mayan civilizations. The Mayans were in decline as a civilization - their cities were much smaller, their overall influence was shrinking and their great capitals had almost all been abandoned before the Aztecs even started growing out of the Texcoco lake.

Even if modern Maya were not living in grand cities prior the Spanish they still had their own languages and cultures. Being enslaved and not allowed to speak their own languages or religious practices (apart from human sacrifice) is a great injustice. Literally millions of indigenous people died during Spanish colonization.

An apology and acknowledgement of the huge costs to indigenous Americans is the least Spain can do.

All that is true. Erasing an entire civilization's history, language and culture is Tier 1 colonial evil. But the Mexican government since independence generally hasn't been much better.

For what it's worth, the Aztec experience is a bit more complicated. The Spanish defeated the Aztecs militarily in a relatively big war. They did this by forming a military alliance with the other city-states. Those city-states joined in because of how bad the Aztecs were oppressing them. It wasn't quite the glorious white savior reverse Alamo that it was made out to be by the European history books.

That is super interesting.

Good point - Both Spain and Mexico should apologize to indigenous peoples of Mexico and celebrate their accomplishments and cultures prior to colonization.

Like the Maya, the ancient Aztecs boasted many achievements, including:

Architecture
The Aztecs built fancy cities, palaces, and temple-pyramids, including Tenochtitlan, their capital city. Tenochtitlan was built on an island in Lake Texcoco and used the lake's water to create floating gardens, dams, and sluice gates.

Agriculture
The Aztecs developed floating gardens, which were plots of land made from reeds and branches filled with mud. These gardens allowed them to grow corn, beans, and squash.

Calendar
The Aztecs had a sacred calendar system similar to the Mayan. The calendar included a 260-day Tonalpohualli and a 365-day Xiuhpohualli.

Education
The Aztecs developed a system of compulsory education for all children, one of the first systems of universal education.

Number system
The Aztecs developed a vigesimal number system, using 20 as a base. They represented numbers with a series of dots and bars, a dot representing one, and a bar representing five.

Bureaucracy
The Aztecs built up a large political, military, and religious bureaucracy that included governors, tax collectors, courts of justice, military garrisons, mail and messenger services, and other civil offices


They may not have been perfect but they had sophisticated society and languages .

The way they and other indigenous peoples of Mexico/ central and South America were treated as subhuman was deeply wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There has never been a formal, official, apology.

Spain: the time has come. Do the right thing. Apologize.

I actually agree with you OP though no idea if you are genuine or just stirring the pot. Although an apology would be mostly symbolic, it could be a way to open up better communications and respect for ingenious people’s through central and South America .

The devastation done to indigenous peoples of Central and South America during Spanish colonization is on the scale of the Holocaust. People who belong to the once proud cultures of Aztecs/ Maya and Incas (among others) continue to face great discrimination and hardships even today.

“It is estimated that during the initial Spanish conquest of the Americas up to eight million indigenous people died, primarily through the spread of Afro-Eurasian diseases, in a series of events that have been described as the first large-scale act of genocide of the modern era.”.

We could learn a lot from indigenous peoples - such as treating nature with more respect.

As someone whose family is Native, I agree with much of the above.

However, also worth pointing out that the "Noble Savage" myth is also absurd.

Many indigenous groups engaged in regular conflict with each other, including wars of aggression and annihilation. Likely one of the causes of Mayan collapse, to cite just one example.

PP to whom you responded.

Yes agree that no culture or society is perfect. Some of traditional indigenous practices were brutal - however they did manage to maintain coherent modes of social and economic organization without destroying their natural environment or on the same degree Western societies have.

The Mayan were hardly savages but created an advanced ancient civilization: For example, way before early Western civilizations, the Mayan invented the mathematical concept of zero, developed a written language of hieroglyphs understood astronomy, created a complex and accurate calendar system.. They also implemented irrigation systems, and agricultural systems.

Mayans were forbidden from speaking their native language, partaking in their native religious rituals, and made to serve the Spanish through perpetual forced labor. In the 16th century bishop Diego de Landa burned perhaps thousands of books during the Spanish inquisition.

Spanish colonization and the Mexican regime that followed (1821-1846) led to a period of unprecedented regional transformation marked by enslaving and displacing Indigenous Peoples and alteration of the natural ecosystems and habitat.

Indigenous people throughout central and South America face ongoing discrimination and also disrespect for their traditional cultures and languages .

I agree with the New Mexican president that an apology is in order.

The Aztec destroyed most of the the Maya civilization.
The Maya destroyed the Olmec civilization.
The history of humans has been war and conquest and slavery since the beginning we crawled out of the trees.

PP to whom you responded

There are different theories for what caused the decline of ancient Mayan civilization. Scholars various potential reasons for the downfall of Maya civilization in the southern lowlands, including overpopulation, environmental degradation, warfare, shifting trade routes and extended drought

Scholars don’t think that the Aztecs destroyed ancient Mayan civilizations. The Mayans were in decline as a civilization - their cities were much smaller, their overall influence was shrinking and their great capitals had almost all been abandoned before the Aztecs even started growing out of the Texcoco lake.

Even if modern Maya were not living in grand cities prior the Spanish they still had their own languages and cultures. Being enslaved and not allowed to speak their own languages or religious practices (apart from human sacrifice) is a great injustice. Literally millions of indigenous people died during Spanish colonization.

An apology and acknowledgement of the huge costs to indigenous Americans is the least Spain can do.

It was the Aztecs. Aztecs were hated enormously by most other groups in southern Mexico. That's why Cortez was able to defeat the Aztecs, by rallying thousand of other members of various tribes to try to wipe them out and take Tenochtitlan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There has never been a formal, official, apology.

Spain: the time has come. Do the right thing. Apologize.

I actually agree with you OP though no idea if you are genuine or just stirring the pot. Although an apology would be mostly symbolic, it could be a way to open up better communications and respect for ingenious people’s through central and South America .

The devastation done to indigenous peoples of Central and South America during Spanish colonization is on the scale of the Holocaust. People who belong to the once proud cultures of Aztecs/ Maya and Incas (among others) continue to face great discrimination and hardships even today.

“It is estimated that during the initial Spanish conquest of the Americas up to eight million indigenous people died, primarily through the spread of Afro-Eurasian diseases, in a series of events that have been described as the first large-scale act of genocide of the modern era.”.

We could learn a lot from indigenous peoples - such as treating nature with more respect.

As someone whose family is Native, I agree with much of the above.

However, also worth pointing out that the "Noble Savage" myth is also absurd.

Many indigenous groups engaged in regular conflict with each other, including wars of aggression and annihilation. Likely one of the causes of Mayan collapse, to cite just one example.

PP to whom you responded.

Yes agree that no culture or society is perfect. Some of traditional indigenous practices were brutal - however they did manage to maintain coherent modes of social and economic organization without destroying their natural environment or on the same degree Western societies have.

The Mayan were hardly savages but created an advanced ancient civilization: For example, way before early Western civilizations, the Mayan invented the mathematical concept of zero, developed a written language of hieroglyphs understood astronomy, created a complex and accurate calendar system.. They also implemented irrigation systems, and agricultural systems.

Mayans were forbidden from speaking their native language, partaking in their native religious rituals, and made to serve the Spanish through perpetual forced labor. In the 16th century bishop Diego de Landa burned perhaps thousands of books during the Spanish inquisition.

Spanish colonization and the Mexican regime that followed (1821-1846) led to a period of unprecedented regional transformation marked by enslaving and displacing Indigenous Peoples and alteration of the natural ecosystems and habitat.

Indigenous people throughout central and South America face ongoing discrimination and also disrespect for their traditional cultures and languages .

I agree with the New Mexican president that an apology is in order.

The Aztec destroyed most of the the Maya civilization.
The Maya destroyed the Olmec civilization.
The history of humans has been war and conquest and slavery since the beginning we crawled out of the trees.

PP to whom you responded

There are different theories for what caused the decline of ancient Mayan civilization. Scholars various potential reasons for the downfall of Maya civilization in the southern lowlands, including overpopulation, environmental degradation, warfare, shifting trade routes and extended drought

Scholars don’t think that the Aztecs destroyed ancient Mayan civilizations. The Mayans were in decline as a civilization - their cities were much smaller, their overall influence was shrinking and their great capitals had almost all been abandoned before the Aztecs even started growing out of the Texcoco lake.

Even if modern Maya were not living in grand cities prior the Spanish they still had their own languages and cultures. Being enslaved and not allowed to speak their own languages or religious practices (apart from human sacrifice) is a great injustice. Literally millions of indigenous people died during Spanish colonization.

An apology and acknowledgement of the huge costs to indigenous Americans is the least Spain can do.

It was the Aztecs. Aztecs were hated enormously by most other groups in southern Mexico. That's why Cortez was able to defeat the Aztecs, by rallying thousand of other members of various tribes to try to wipe them out and take Tenochtitlan.

People of Aztec descent are still hated enormously by most in southern Mexico of other tribal background. Constant waring among tribes still in areas like Oaxaca and the Yucatan cartels with the Sinaloa mostly Aztec indios.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There has never been a formal, official, apology.

Spain: the time has come. Do the right thing. Apologize.

I actually agree with you OP though no idea if you are genuine or just stirring the pot. Although an apology would be mostly symbolic, it could be a way to open up better communications and respect for ingenious people’s through central and South America .

The devastation done to indigenous peoples of Central and South America during Spanish colonization is on the scale of the Holocaust. People who belong to the once proud cultures of Aztecs/ Maya and Incas (among others) continue to face great discrimination and hardships even today.

“It is estimated that during the initial Spanish conquest of the Americas up to eight million indigenous people died, primarily through the spread of Afro-Eurasian diseases, in a series of events that have been described as the first large-scale act of genocide of the modern era.”.

We could learn a lot from indigenous peoples - such as treating nature with more respect.

As someone whose family is Native, I agree with much of the above.

However, also worth pointing out that the "Noble Savage" myth is also absurd.

Many indigenous groups engaged in regular conflict with each other, including wars of aggression and annihilation. Likely one of the causes of Mayan collapse, to cite just one example.

PP to whom you responded.

Yes agree that no culture or society is perfect. Some of traditional indigenous practices were brutal - however they did manage to maintain coherent modes of social and economic organization without destroying their natural environment or on the same degree Western societies have.

The Mayan were hardly savages but created an advanced ancient civilization: For example, way before early Western civilizations, the Mayan invented the mathematical concept of zero, developed a written language of hieroglyphs understood astronomy, created a complex and accurate calendar system.. They also implemented irrigation systems, and agricultural systems.

Mayans were forbidden from speaking their native language, partaking in their native religious rituals, and made to serve the Spanish through perpetual forced labor. In the 16th century bishop Diego de Landa burned perhaps thousands of books during the Spanish inquisition.

Spanish colonization and the Mexican regime that followed (1821-1846) led to a period of unprecedented regional transformation marked by enslaving and displacing Indigenous Peoples and alteration of the natural ecosystems and habitat.

Indigenous people throughout central and South America face ongoing discrimination and also disrespect for their traditional cultures and languages .

I agree with the New Mexican president that an apology is in order.

The Aztec destroyed most of the the Maya civilization.
The Maya destroyed the Olmec civilization.
The history of humans has been war and conquest and slavery since the beginning we crawled out of the trees.

PP to whom you responded

There are different theories for what caused the decline of ancient Mayan civilization. Scholars various potential reasons for the downfall of Maya civilization in the southern lowlands, including overpopulation, environmental degradation, warfare, shifting trade routes and extended drought

Scholars don’t think that the Aztecs destroyed ancient Mayan civilizations. The Mayans were in decline as a civilization - their cities were much smaller, their overall influence was shrinking and their great capitals had almost all been abandoned before the Aztecs even started growing out of the Texcoco lake.

Even if modern Maya were not living in grand cities prior the Spanish they still had their own languages and cultures. Being enslaved and not allowed to speak their own languages or religious practices (apart from human sacrifice) is a great injustice. Literally millions of indigenous people died during Spanish colonization.

An apology and acknowledgement of the huge costs to indigenous Americans is the least Spain can do.

It was the Aztecs. Aztecs were hated enormously by most other groups in southern Mexico. That's why Cortez was able to defeat the Aztecs, by rallying thousand of other members of various tribes to try to wipe them out and take Tenochtitlan.

People of Aztec descent are still hated enormously by most in southern Mexico of other tribal background. Constant waring among tribes still in areas like Oaxaca and the Yucatan cartels with the Sinaloa mostly Aztec indios.

This hatred may itself be a result of colonial divide and rule strategies - setting local indigenous peoples against each other in order to dominate all.

“The Aztecs, on the other hand, are viewed as a uniquely vicious and evil people, ranking alongside the Nazis in the popular imagination. In reality, though, Tenochtitlan was not an especially violent place. Interpersonal and illegal violence, such as assault and murder, seems to have been quite rare.

“Our image of Tenochtitlan seems to be based largely on stereotypes that depict Aztec culture as inherently bloodthirsty – perhaps partly because that was how the Spanish presented the Aztecs in attempts to justify their conquest. It’s true that human sacrifice – something we struggle to understand – was central to religious practice in Tenochtitlan.

But one of the most remarkable things about the Aztec people is that they were not dehumanised by the brutal rituals of sacrifice. These were compassionate, sophisticated, and very familiar people. They loved music, poetry and flowers, were highly educated – with universal schooling provided for both boys and girls – and treasured close emotional ties with their families. This was a culture in which children were welcomed with joy, and women and men parented together, with fathers raising their sons and women their daughters. It was a place where domestic violence was not condoned, and where women inherited property equally with their brothers. But this was also a place in which capricious and all-powerful gods demanded constant feeding with human blood to prevent the world from coming to an end.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Aren't the people who run Mexico primarily of Spanish ancestry? Is Spain supposed to apologize to those people?

Absolutely. Look at their presidents or a picture of the cabinet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There has never been a formal, official, apology.

Spain: the time has come. Do the right thing. Apologize.

AOC, please get off DCUM. Don't you have better things to do with your time?

Isn't AOC Puerto Rican not Mexican?

I'm not an expert on the geopolitics of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There has never been a formal, official, apology.

Spain: the time has come. Do the right thing. Apologize.

I actually agree with you OP though no idea if you are genuine or just stirring the pot. Although an apology would be mostly symbolic, it could be a way to open up better communications and respect for ingenious people’s through central and South America .

The devastation done to indigenous peoples of Central and South America during Spanish colonization is on the scale of the Holocaust. People who belong to the once proud cultures of Aztecs/ Maya and Incas (among others) continue to face great discrimination and hardships even today.

“It is estimated that during the initial Spanish conquest of the Americas up to eight million indigenous people died, primarily through the spread of Afro-Eurasian diseases, in a series of events that have been described as the first large-scale act of genocide of the modern era.”.

We could learn a lot from indigenous peoples - such as treating nature with more respect.

As a mestizo, I am cringing as American wokeism is exported to Mexico. The Aztec empire was the most brutal, violent regime the world has ever seen. It is not even close. Ironic that people miss genocide committed by the Aztecs and skip right to Spaniard genocide. There is a reason why 40 conquistadores were able to topple the Aztec empire: the other nations helped the Spaniards because of how hated and genocidal the Aztecs were.

[Anonymous]

Don't apologize for winning.