What would change your mind on the Israel / Hamas / Hezbollah war?

[Anonymous]

I used to be neutral. Now I do not think Israel should exist without a Palestinian state. The Palestinian state must be funded(both militarily and economically) at the same level as Israel.

Also there would have to be a Palestinian/Islamic lobbyist organization equal to AIPAC and the American media would have to disclose their bias cover.

So the only way I would change is if there is a Palestinian state equal to Israel in every way. Israel has said they would never allow any type of Palestinian state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would seem that, by now, everyone has an opinion on whose right and whose wrong in the Israel / Gaza / Lebanon Conflict.

However, I would really like to know whether or not there's an ethical line that could be crossed from either side that would convince you switch sides?

For example, if you're still team Israel, what would be necessary for you to turn against them? I'm looking for military or political red-lines... Use of tactical nukes or chemical weapons? Direct unprovoked attack on Egypt or Qatar? Placing everyone in West Bank on massive cruise ships and sending them to some remote place? Labor Camps in settlement areas? A video of mass shooting of prisoners? Ceasing to allow any aid trucks in for some period of time?

If you're team anti-Israel / anti-Zionism, what would you have to see from Israel / Hamas / Hezbollah to change your stance on the matter? Hezbollah launching 5,000 missiles in a single day at indiscriminate targets into Israel? Chemical/radioactive weapons attached to missiles that? Terrorist attacks at scale in the US or Europe?

Would gas prices reading $6 / gallon in the US be the main thing that would bother you?

On the flip side, would any benevolent offering from one side be enough to change your mind?

Before the red lines are crossed, could we all define what ours actually are?

No one with at least half a brain is "for" Palestine or Israel or Hamas or Hezbollah or Lebanon. We are all for the innocent people throughout that region that have continually been terrorized by the wars of their "leaders".

This. I cannot stand the pro- anti- dichotomy. Why am I pro-Israel if I condemn Hamas for its violence and ideology? Why am I pro-Palestine if I condemn Israel’s response? I’m pro people not being murdered by egomaniacs.

[Anonymous]

I believe a two state solution would've been best.

I know Likud is pushing Israel toward a one state Israeli solution, but I firmly believe Israel was seeking a two state solution at multiple points from 1948 until the second intifada. The Israelis wanted it in a way I never thought the Palestinians really did. "Right of Return" is such a poison pill it makes it hard to take the Palestinians seriously.

I would start turning against the Israelis if the Palestinian population really began supporting peaceful coexistence and a two state solution. I would need to see the majority of Palestinian leadership advocate for the two state solution, and they should have popular support. Advocating for a two state solution shouldn't make them fear for their lives.

I do agree that Israeli settlements in the West Bank are a problem, but I don't believe Palestinian leadership would change their attitudes if the Israelis pulled out tomorrow. They want vengeance more than peace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I used to be neutral. Now I do not think Israel should exist without a Palestinian state. The Palestinian state must be funded(both militarily and economically) at the same level as Israel.

Also there would have to be a Palestinian/Islamic lobbyist organization equal to AIPAC and the American media would have to disclose their bias cover.

So the only way I would change is if there is a Palestinian state equal to Israel in every way. Israel has said they would never allow any type of Palestinian state.

Then you ARE neutral, my dear. It's the right thing to be. The pro-Israel lobby in the US is guilty of war crimes by association, sadly. The persecution of people on campuses and in workplaces all over the US for daring to speak up to protect innocent Palestinian lives is outrageous.

A two-state solution is the only solution. It's fraught, because of the water problem, but surely we can figure out a way.

That being said, I am celebrating today the elimination of a master criminal and terrorist, the Hezbollah leader. Good riddance!!! We need to get rid of ALL the war criminals, on both sides.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be neutral. Now I do not think Israel should exist without a Palestinian state. The Palestinian state must be funded(both militarily and economically) at the same level as Israel.

Also there would have to be a Palestinian/Islamic lobbyist organization equal to AIPAC and the American media would have to disclose their bias cover.

So the only way I would change is if there is a Palestinian state equal to Israel in every way. Israel has said they would never allow any type of Palestinian state.

Then you ARE neutral, my dear. It's the right thing to be. The pro-Israel lobby in the US is guilty of war crimes by association, sadly. The persecution of people on campuses and in workplaces all over the US for daring to speak up to protect innocent Palestinian lives is outrageous.

A two-state solution is the only solution. It's fraught, because of the water problem, but surely we can figure out a way.

That being said, I am celebrating today the elimination of a master criminal and terrorist, the Hezbollah leader. Good riddance!!! We need to get rid of ALL the war criminals, on both sides.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Would love to hear from the pro-Israel side as well... Is there anything that would make you turn against the Netanyahu government or perhaps feel more sympathy to their opposition?

Yes, I would turn against Israel when it’s clear their land and people are no longer under threat of attack from terrorists and they continued to retaliate.

At the moment I support Israel 100% because if terrorists invaded American homes and killed and kidnapped my countrymen, I would want them to eradicate Hamas. If terrorists shot rockets at me every night, I would want the US to take out the leadership of the terror organization.

If for example on October 7, Israelis snuck into Gaza, and intentionally murdered and kidnapped civilians, then I would not support Israel.

My spouse and his family are Jewish and this is I think where they are. They believe, because of the Holocaust and the way that other countries including the US treated Jews trying to flee, that Israel MUST exist and has the right to defend itself against any threats, of which there are many. If another Holocaust were to occur, Jews of the world must have somewhere to go. That said, they are not big fans of Bibi.

And you are ok, and your spouse, with stealing someone else's land . . . Because Germany killed your spouse's distant relatives.

You, and your spouse, are absolutely sick.

[Anonymous]

I couldn't imagine if the previous occupants of my house moved in, annexed me to the windowless powder room and garage, and the took over that "my" portion when I spoke out. I am still paying the mortgage on this place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would seem that, by now, everyone has an opinion on whose right and whose wrong in the Israel / Gaza / Lebanon Conflict.

However, I would really like to know whether or not there's an ethical line that could be crossed from either side that would convince you switch sides?

For example, if you're still team Israel, what would be necessary for you to turn against them? I'm looking for military or political red-lines... Use of tactical nukes or chemical weapons? Direct unprovoked attack on Egypt or Qatar? Placing everyone in West Bank on massive cruise ships and sending them to some remote place? Labor Camps in settlement areas? A video of mass shooting of prisoners? Ceasing to allow any aid trucks in for some period of time?

If you're team anti-Israel / anti-Zionism, what would you have to see from Israel / Hamas / Hezbollah to change your stance on the matter? Hezbollah launching 5,000 missiles in a single day at indiscriminate targets into Israel? Chemical/radioactive weapons attached to missiles that? Terrorist attacks at scale in the US or Europe?

Would gas prices reading $6 / gallon in the US be the main thing that would bother you?

On the flip side, would any benevolent offering from one side be enough to change your mind?

Before the red lines are crossed, could we all define what ours actually are?

No one with at least half a brain is "for" Palestine or Israel or Hamas or Hezbollah or Lebanon. We are all for the innocent people throughout that region that have continually been terrorized by the wars of their "leaders".

This. I cannot stand the pro- anti- dichotomy. Why am I pro-Israel if I condemn Hamas for its violence and ideology? Why am I pro-Palestine if I condemn Israel’s response? I’m pro people not being murdered by egomaniacs.

OP Here. I also don't like the pro-anti dichotomy. I actually struggled quite a bit producing this title and question. The reason I ultimately settled on it is because (1) Hamas/Hezbollah (Gaza/Lebanon) represent two different (yet related) fronts/wars. I felt the wording would've been awkward presented any other way. (2) Israel is the entity common to both of those wars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing would ever change my mind, because I am Jewish and care for the Jewish people. I’m not going to change my mind as I watch the ongoing global Jewish genocide started by [Hamas](https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-weekend-essay/what-we-know-about-the-weaponization-of-sexual-violence-on-october-7th) and continued by monstrous Hamas terrorists in [American Universities all over the country](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna173110).

The only people at this point who do not whole heartedly support Israel are anti-Semitic terrorists cheering on the beginnings of the second Holocaust.

OP here. Do you not see non-Jewish people as members of your fellow humanity in someway? For me (as a third party US non-Jewish, non-Muslim observer), it's very difficult for me to see anything besides the numbers at this point. Based on your response, I'm gathering that 1200 Jewish individuals killed on October 7th are considerably more valuable than the 25000-ish civilians killed in Gaza. I don't say this to be over critically... I get it. War is war and Hamas fights with Guerrilla tactics. You may argue this is cowardly or essential, but it is what it is.

Following the events of the Holocaust, the Jewish people of the world must always have a country, a home, that will welcome them. So many countries, including the US, turned away Jewish refugees during the Holocaust. This actually happened, less than 100 years ago. And that is why Israel’s very existence means so much to the Jewish people. If you do not view it through that lens, it is more difficult to understand.

OP Here. Is it not possible to separate the actions of the Israeli government or the factions of the Israel government that are pushing so ardently for settlements in the West Bank and the carpet bombing of Gaza from the Jewish/Israeli people themselves? The world did a pretty good job of distinguishing the German people from the Nazis after World War II. Can we not also separate the people of Israel from the extreme Orthodox mindsets that Gvir and Smotrich espouse?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would seem that, by now, everyone has an opinion on whose right and whose wrong in the Israel / Gaza / Lebanon Conflict.

However, I would really like to know whether or not there's an ethical line that could be crossed from either side that would convince you switch sides?

For example, if you're still team Israel, what would be necessary for you to turn against them? I'm looking for military or political red-lines... Use of tactical nukes or chemical weapons? Direct unprovoked attack on Egypt or Qatar? Placing everyone in West Bank on massive cruise ships and sending them to some remote place? Labor Camps in settlement areas? A video of mass shooting of prisoners? Ceasing to allow any aid trucks in for some period of time?

If you're team anti-Israel / anti-Zionism, what would you have to see from Israel / Hamas / Hezbollah to change your stance on the matter? Hezbollah launching 5,000 missiles in a single day at indiscriminate targets into Israel? Chemical/radioactive weapons attached to missiles that? Terrorist attacks at scale in the US or Europe?

Would gas prices reading $6 / gallon in the US be the main thing that would bother you?

On the flip side, would any benevolent offering from one side be enough to change your mind?

Before the red lines are crossed, could we all define what ours actually are?

No one with at least half a brain is "for" Palestine or Israel or Hamas or Hezbollah or Lebanon. We are all for the innocent people throughout that region that have continually been terrorized by the wars of their "leaders".

This. I cannot stand the pro- anti- dichotomy. Why am I pro-Israel if I condemn Hamas for its violence and ideology? Why am I pro-Palestine if I condemn Israel’s response? I’m pro people not being murdered by egomaniacs.

This is it exactly!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I couldn't imagine if the previous occupants of my house moved in, annexed me to the windowless powder room and garage, and the took over that "my" portion when I spoke out. I am still paying the mortgage on this place.

This. There should have been a two state solution in the beginning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I couldn't imagine if the previous occupants of my house moved in, annexed me to the windowless powder room and garage, and the took over that "my" portion when I spoke out. I am still paying the mortgage on this place.

This. There should have been a two state solution in the beginning.

there was…palestinians were offered half the land. they said no. arabs invaded and then there was the israeli war of independence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I couldn't imagine if the previous occupants of my house moved in, annexed me to the windowless powder room and garage, and the took over that "my" portion when I spoke out. I am still paying the mortgage on this place.

This. There should have been a two state solution in the beginning.

there was…palestinians were offered half the land. they said no. arabs invaded and then there was the israeli war of independence.

Then the people should have dispersed throughout the world. Deciding to forcibly take half a country as your own wouldn’t go over well anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Would love to hear from the pro-Israel side as well... Is there anything that would make you turn against the Netanyahu government or perhaps feel more sympathy to their opposition?

Yes, I would turn against Israel when it’s clear their land and people are no longer under threat of attack from terrorists and they continued to retaliate.

At the moment I support Israel 100% because if terrorists invaded American homes and killed and kidnapped my countrymen, I would want them to eradicate Hamas. If terrorists shot rockets at me every night, I would want the US to take out the leadership of the terror organization.

If for example on October 7, Israelis snuck into Gaza, and intentionally murdered and kidnapped civilians, then I would not support Israel.

You imbecile, Israel does exactly THAT every day, not just on that one day!

What planet do you live on?

Hahaha, I live in reality. I get it’s hard for you because facts don’t matter to brainwashed ideologues but there is zero evidence for your claims.

Laughing at your sympathies to Islamic terrorists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I couldn't imagine if the previous occupants of my house moved in, annexed me to the windowless powder room and garage, and the took over that "my" portion when I spoke out. I am still paying the mortgage on this place.

This. There should have been a two state solution in the beginning.

there was…palestinians were offered half the land. they said no. arabs invaded and then there was the israeli war of independence.

Then the people should have dispersed throughout the world. Deciding to forcibly take half a country as your own wouldn’t go over well anywhere.

Jews have there before Muslims even existed.