Friendship with abuser

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm kinda torn about this. I want to be the sort of person who says "believe the victim" and would shun an abuser.

But my abuser goes around telling everyone I was the abuser. For all the PPs who said they'd know, they can spot even covert abuse, etc., my experience has not held that up at all.

I would continue to support whoever you were closer to. If that's the person alleging abuse, that makes it an easier decision. If I heard my "friend" was an abuser, I'd confront them. My real friends confronted me when they heard my ex's allegations, only to hear a completely different story, with receipts, about how the inverse was far more accurate.

It's a messy situation all around, and I completely understand the PP who was like "just get new friends". Breakups are tough on friend circles. Toxic/abusive relationship blowups are even harder.

Good luck, OP.

Great points, seen them before too.

The abusive narc wastes no time bad mouthing the Ex and blaming others.

Ask them yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been part of a fairly close circle of friends, including several couples, for a couple of years.

Recently, one of the couples split up. We (the friends) learned after the breakup that one person in that couple had been abusing substances and lying about abusing substances. We learned a few days later that that person had also terrorized and abused their partner physically and in many other ways.

Our group is having a hard time figuring out a way forward. It has been difficult to process that the person we thought we knew was someone else entirely. At first, some felt that they wanted to support that person since they needed help and support after a breakup and dealing with substance abuse and we were led to believe they did not have other support. But then the details of the abuse began trickling out, and now it is different.

The abused partner, as well as another friend who was a witness, have said that they do not to be friends with anyone in our group who continues to maintain a friend relationship with the abuser.

I personally have no doubts that this abuse happened, and I have had other life experiences that have shown me that abusers can put on a charming and innocent persona when they are around others. In this case, the abuser seems to be minimizing what happened, kind of pretending it wasn’t a big deal, and is asking to hang out with the rest of us.

Our group is split, with some saying they want to maintain neutrality and saying that it is unfair to have to choose between the two friends. Others (myself included) do not think this is a situation where neutrality applies, considering the abuse that took place and that the abuser isn’t really acknowledging or taking ownership of their actions.

How would you feel if this happened among friends who mattered to you? How would you proceed?

I have left the genders out because it really should not matter.

Basically MYOB about it all. You relationship with the person in question is YOUR RELATIONSHIP.
How they act with others doesn't affect that.
How others view them and try to coerce you to abandoning them, is not relevant.
You are obviously not in high school anymore. Be an adult and be there for your friend, unless the friend starts to abuse you.

Would you apply this same logic if the accused was a thief, rapist, murderer? Be their friend until they steal from, rape, or murder you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry OP the genders do matter.

I can agitate and piss off my wife, yell, stand in her way, and goad her to push me….. and then call the police and accuse her of physically abusing me.

Works every time.

And she’ll get hysteric when the police show up. I’ll stay cool as a cucumber and watch her get hauled to the station.

Works every time. Turn it in to the He said She said thing. Win win.

So many people don’t realize these premeditated traps. Most outsiders are quick to blame both people, not observe and see who set the trap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been part of a fairly close circle of friends, including several couples, for a couple of years.

Recently, one of the couples split up. We (the friends) learned after the breakup that one person in that couple had been abusing substances and lying about abusing substances. We learned a few days later that that person had also terrorized and abused their partner physically and in many other ways.

Our group is having a hard time figuring out a way forward. It has been difficult to process that the person we thought we knew was someone else entirely. At first, some felt that they wanted to support that person since they needed help and support after a breakup and dealing with substance abuse and we were led to believe they did not have other support. But then the details of the abuse began trickling out, and now it is different.

The abused partner, as well as another friend who was a witness, have said that they do not to be friends with anyone in our group who continues to maintain a friend relationship with the abuser.

I personally have no doubts that this abuse happened, and I have had other life experiences that have shown me that abusers can put on a charming and innocent persona when they are around others. In this case, the abuser seems to be minimizing what happened, kind of pretending it wasn’t a big deal, and is asking to hang out with the rest of us.

Our group is split, with some saying they want to maintain neutrality and saying that it is unfair to have to choose between the two friends. Others (myself included) do not think this is a situation where neutrality applies, considering the abuse that took place and that the abuser isn’t really acknowledging or taking ownership of their actions.

How would you feel if this happened among friends who mattered to you? How would you proceed?

I have left the genders out because it really should not matter.

Basically MYOB about it all. You relationship with the person in question is YOUR RELATIONSHIP.
How they act with others doesn't affect that.
How others view them and try to coerce you to abandoning them, is not relevant.
You are obviously not in high school anymore. Be an adult and be there for your friend, unless the friend starts to abuse you.

Would you apply this same logic if the accused was a thief, rapist, murderer? Be their friend until they steal from, rape, or murder you?

+1. A bad person is a bad person, even if they happen to be nice to some people. It’s cowardly and shows poor character to remain friends with someone you know to be a bad person (and anyone who physically abused someone else and won’t admit or apologize for it IS without a doubt a bad person) just because they haven’t actively harmed YOU yet.

[Anonymous]

If you can be “friends” with an abuser (and it sounds like there are eyewitness accounts to this abuse), then something is deeply wrong with you. Staying neutral is almost worse - it enables bad behavior and there is zero accountability asked of the perpetrator. We need to protect survivors and victims, not contribute to their pain and suffering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have been part of a fairly close circle of friends, including several couples, for a couple of years.

Recently, one of the couples split up. We (the friends) learned after the breakup that one person in that couple had been abusing substances and lying about abusing substances. We learned a few days later that that person had also terrorized and abused their partner physically and in many other ways.

Our group is having a hard time figuring out a way forward. It has been difficult to process that the person we thought we knew was someone else entirely. At first, some felt that they wanted to support that person since they needed help and support after a breakup and dealing with substance abuse and we were led to believe they did not have other support. But then the details of the abuse began trickling out, and now it is different.

The abused partner, as well as another friend who was a witness, have said that they do not to be friends with anyone in our group who continues to maintain a friend relationship with the abuser.

I personally have no doubts that this abuse happened, and I have had other life experiences that have shown me that abusers can put on a charming and innocent persona when they are around others. In this case, the abuser seems to be minimizing what happened, kind of pretending it wasn’t a big deal, and is asking to hang out with the rest of us.

Our group is split, with some saying they want to maintain neutrality and saying that it is unfair to have to choose between the two friends. Others (myself included) do not think this is a situation where neutrality applies, considering the abuse that took place and that the abuser isn’t really acknowledging or taking ownership of their actions.

How would you feel if this happened among friends who mattered to you? How would you proceed?

I have left the genders out because it really should not matter.

What a $hit$how.

Can you read the court records and find out wtf is really happening here?

[Anonymous]

First of all, when a marriage breaks up, you will always pick a side. You can’t decide as a group where your loyalty lies. Instead, you decide as a couple. Keep in mind, you have only heard one side of the story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First of all, when a marriage breaks up, you will always pick a side. You can’t decide as a group where your loyalty lies. Instead, you decide as a couple. Keep in mind, you have only heard one side of the story.

I don’t know if I agree with that. I can think of plenty of situations/couples where it would not be necessary to pick a side. Not all breakups are $hitshows involving one or more persons with serious issues.

[Anonymous]

Don’t be a Flying Monkey OP.

[Anonymous]

Neutrality will cost both friendships. You really have to pick sides as you do in all divorces honestly. Not that you need to be hostile to the other party but close friendship with both unrealistic.

I would choose the party to whom I was closer. But in support of the abused you could acknowledge his/her pain and perhaps state why you are choosing to support the other party. For example if you have had a decades long friendship with abuser that predates the abuser spouse that would be understandable. You could frame it as we believe you and are not trying to minimize your experience, but given our history with X we feel we need to support him in his recovery (or whatever he is doing).

As someone who left an abusive marriage, it added significantly to my trauma that I had a friend who sided with my ex and clearly did not believe me. And she had been my friend all along and was only casually acquainted with my ex.

[Anonymous]

Unless the abuser was like my brother and someone I have an extra obligation to (and so I felt I had to keep that relationship intact, even if just to try to get them to change), then I could never continue to be friends with a known abuser. Honestly even if it was my brother I would probably proactively reach out to the abusee and apologize and explain that I take their side in that even if we can't remain friends because of my connection to their abuser.

The ONLY exception might be a scenario where I feel like I have to keep things civil with them for the children involved but still, we would not be close.

[Anonymous]

If I believed abuse happened, I would not associate with the abuser. I grew up in an abusive home and have no tolerance for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t see how or why someone would maintain friendship with someone who was abusing their friend.

+1

[Anonymous]

My brother was abused by his wife....but now they are back together. So despite trying to support him (and not her), she is still the mother of this kids and now that they are back together...neutral seems like the best option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry OP the genders do matter.

I can agitate and piss off my wife, yell, stand in her way, and goad her to push me….. and then call the police and accuse her of physically abusing me.

Works every time.

And she’ll get hysteric when the police show up. I’ll stay cool as a cucumber and watch her get hauled to the station.

Works every time. Turn it in to the He said She said thing. Win win.

So many people don’t realize these premeditated traps. Most outsiders are quick to blame both people, not observe and see who set the trap.

Exactly. And it favors the true abuser, who is usually great at hiding their true colors from outsiders, and seeming like "such a nice guy" while the person he abuses has gotten pushed to the point of lashing out and looking like the "bad guy".