Friendship with abuser

[Anonymous]

I would not want to socialize with an illegal drug user so even if I wasn't sure of the abuse, known illegal drug use plus suspected abuse is enough for me to not hang out with the person.

I would consider going to a party someone else threw if the abuser is there. I would not invite the abuser to my own party.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have been part of a fairly close circle of friends, including several couples, for a couple of years.

Recently, one of the couples split up. We (the friends) learned after the breakup that one person in that couple had been abusing substances and lying about abusing substances. We learned a few days later that that person had also terrorized and abused their partner physically and in many other ways.

Our group is having a hard time figuring out a way forward. It has been difficult to process that the person we thought we knew was someone else entirely. At first, some felt that they wanted to support that person since they needed help and support after a breakup and dealing with substance abuse and we were led to believe they did not have other support. But then the details of the abuse began trickling out, and now it is different.

The abused partner, as well as another friend who was a witness, have said that they do not to be friends with anyone in our group who continues to maintain a friend relationship with the abuser.

I personally have no doubts that this abuse happened, and I have had other life experiences that have shown me that abusers can put on a charming and innocent persona when they are around others. In this case, the abuser seems to be minimizing what happened, kind of pretending it wasn’t a big deal, and is asking to hang out with the rest of us.

Our group is split, with some saying they want to maintain neutrality and saying that it is unfair to have to choose between the two friends. Others (myself included) do not think this is a situation where neutrality applies, considering the abuse that took place and that the abuser isn’t really acknowledging or taking ownership of their actions.

How would you feel if this happened among friends who mattered to you? How would you proceed?

I have left the genders out because it really should not matter.

Basically MYOB about it all. You relationship with the person in question is YOUR RELATIONSHIP.
How they act with others doesn't affect that.
How others view them and try to coerce you to abandoning them, is not relevant.
You are obviously not in high school anymore. Be an adult and be there for your friend, unless the friend starts to abuse you.

[Anonymous]

lol.

So many suckers here. Or one troll sock puppet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:lol.

So many suckers here. Or one troll sock puppet

Why do you think this has to be a troll?
You must not get out much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is your actual dilemma here. You
A) understand the public persona/private abuser dynamic and
B) are certain the abuse occurred
Given these two things I don’t know why you would ever choose to associate with the abuser, regardless of what anyone else in the friend group thinks or does.

It sounds like you have an internal dissociation going on, you know it’s true but don’t want it to be true.

Of course he/she wants to paper over it and pretend it’s normal aka never happened.

Personally there is not much of a dilemma for me. I know where I stand. My partner, and others in the group, are less sure. I think we are all experiencing the internal dissociation you describe in some way.

[Anonymous]

This isn't the same but I recently experienced something similar. I'm part of a group of women that get together for outings, book clubs, parties, lunches, etc. We are, by all accounts, a "normal" group of women, but one of them physically attacked another one at a party. It was bananas and shocking and there was a moment of reflection afterwards of how do we handle this?

As the weeks pressed on, it became obvious that you just can't "side" with someone who uses physical violence. So she was eventually ousted, both metaphorically and literally, from the group, who communicate through a private chat. She's persona non grata. At the end of the day, I can't look myself in the mirror if I go out to lunch and make nice with someone who put their hands on someone's neck and slammed their head into a table. YMMV.

[Anonymous]

I would stop socializing with the abuser. Coming from a family with an abuser in it I know first hand the insidious nature of abuse and its impact on someone. It’s something the victim will spend a lifetime healing from.

In reality I know many people will continue socializing with the abuser. They have never been the target and they can’t begin to truly understand the destruction this person leaves in their wake.

All that being said one has to come to their own conclusion about the said abuser and what the dynamic between the couple is. It is possible they are both abusive. My abuse made me emotionally abusive, without my conscious knowing, for many years in my late teens and early twenties. I spent my twenties unlearning a lot of emotional reactions and behaviors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This isn't the same but I recently experienced something similar. I'm part of a group of women that get together for outings, book clubs, parties, lunches, etc. We are, by all accounts, a "normal" group of women, but one of them physically attacked another one at a party. It was bananas and shocking and there was a moment of reflection afterwards of how do we handle this?

As the weeks pressed on, it became obvious that you just can't "side" with someone who uses physical violence. So she was eventually ousted, both metaphorically and literally, from the group, who communicate through a private chat. She's persona non grata. At the end of the day, I can't look myself in the mirror if I go out to lunch and make nice with someone who put their hands on someone's neck and slammed their head into a table. YMMV.

Jeez and I thought my book club during grad school was rowdy. Out of curiosity what was the argument over??

[Anonymous]

I'm kinda torn about this. I want to be the sort of person who says "believe the victim" and would shun an abuser.

But my abuser goes around telling everyone I was the abuser. For all the PPs who said they'd know, they can spot even covert abuse, etc., my experience has not held that up at all.

I would continue to support whoever you were closer to. If that's the person alleging abuse, that makes it an easier decision. If I heard my "friend" was an abuser, I'd confront them. My real friends confronted me when they heard my ex's allegations, only to hear a completely different story, with receipts, about how the inverse was far more accurate.

It's a messy situation all around, and I completely understand the PP who was like "just get new friends". Breakups are tough on friend circles. Toxic/abusive relationship blowups are even harder.

Good luck, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This isn't the same but I recently experienced something similar. I'm part of a group of women that get together for outings, book clubs, parties, lunches, etc. We are, by all accounts, a "normal" group of women, but one of them physically attacked another one at a party. It was bananas and shocking and there was a moment of reflection afterwards of how do we handle this?

As the weeks pressed on, it became obvious that you just can't "side" with someone who uses physical violence. So she was eventually ousted, both metaphorically and literally, from the group, who communicate through a private chat. She's persona non grata. At the end of the day, I can't look myself in the mirror if I go out to lunch and make nice with someone who put their hands on someone's neck and slammed their head into a table. YMMV.

Jeez and I thought my book club during grad school was rowdy. Out of curiosity what was the argument over??

It's truly bizarre. It was about a (I swear, not a troll, this is the issue) a daycare business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This isn't the same but I recently experienced something similar. I'm part of a group of women that get together for outings, book clubs, parties, lunches, etc. We are, by all accounts, a "normal" group of women, but one of them physically attacked another one at a party. It was bananas and shocking and there was a moment of reflection afterwards of how do we handle this?

As the weeks pressed on, it became obvious that you just can't "side" with someone who uses physical violence. So she was eventually ousted, both metaphorically and literally, from the group, who communicate through a private chat. She's persona non grata. At the end of the day, I can't look myself in the mirror if I go out to lunch and make nice with someone who put their hands on someone's neck and slammed their head into a table. YMMV.

Jeez and I thought my book club during grad school was rowdy. Out of curiosity what was the argument over??

It's truly bizarre. It was about a (I swear, not a troll, this is the issue) a daycare business.

NP. About a business one of them owned? Or about their daycare choice for their kids? That’s unreal. She could have killed the victim wtf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This isn't the same but I recently experienced something similar. I'm part of a group of women that get together for outings, book clubs, parties, lunches, etc. We are, by all accounts, a "normal" group of women, but one of them physically attacked another one at a party. It was bananas and shocking and there was a moment of reflection afterwards of how do we handle this?

As the weeks pressed on, it became obvious that you just can't "side" with someone who uses physical violence. So she was eventually ousted, both metaphorically and literally, from the group, who communicate through a private chat. She's persona non grata. At the end of the day, I can't look myself in the mirror if I go out to lunch and make nice with someone who put their hands on someone's neck and slammed their head into a table. YMMV.

Jeez and I thought my book club during grad school was rowdy. Out of curiosity what was the argument over??

It's truly bizarre. It was about a (I swear, not a troll, this is the issue) a daycare business.

NP. About a business one of them owned? Or about their daycare choice for their kids? That’s unreal. She could have killed the victim wtf

Yup. Owned by one, attended by many in the group but not the victim. She absolutely could have done permanent damage, and to be honest, coming back to OP, I just could never in a million years fake a friendship or really be civil at a party, lunch, outing, whatever with someone capable of that. I just can't. So OP, really think of what's alleged to have happened (or you said you absolutely believe it, so what you know to be true). Can you stomach it?

[Anonymous]

You don't need to noodle over it too much. Both halves of this couple will move on from the group in time and/or it's likely you will too.

I wouldn't attend events with the abuser, but I wouldn't make a big declaration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm kinda torn about this. I want to be the sort of person who says "believe the victim" and would shun an abuser.

But my abuser goes around telling everyone I was the abuser. For all the PPs who said they'd know, they can spot even covert abuse, etc., my experience has not held that up at all.

I would continue to support whoever you were closer to. If that's the person alleging abuse, that makes it an easier decision. If I heard my "friend" was an abuser, I'd confront them. My real friends confronted me when they heard my ex's allegations, only to hear a completely different story, with receipts, about how the inverse was far more accurate.

It's a messy situation all around, and I completely understand the PP who was like "just get new friends". Breakups are tough on friend circles. Toxic/abusive relationship blowups are even harder.

Good luck, OP.

What does this mean?
There is a difference between words that hurt, and abuse.
Sometimes, when they are criticized, instead of introspection some people lash out physically or escalate hurtful words into insults and emotional abuse. The criticism can seem like they are being assaulted and become defensive. The difference is what they do with that feeling.

My partner has in the past and out of carelessness said and done things that were deeply hurtful to me. But I have never, and could not imagine ever physically harming them, or threatening them or trying to bring them down. I do not think there is an excuse for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This isn't the same but I recently experienced something similar. I'm part of a group of women that get together for outings, book clubs, parties, lunches, etc. We are, by all accounts, a "normal" group of women, but one of them physically attacked another one at a party. It was bananas and shocking and there was a moment of reflection afterwards of how do we handle this?

As the weeks pressed on, it became obvious that you just can't "side" with someone who uses physical violence. So she was eventually ousted, both metaphorically and literally, from the group, who communicate through a private chat. She's persona non grata. At the end of the day, I can't look myself in the mirror if I go out to lunch and make nice with someone who put their hands on someone's neck and slammed their head into a table. YMMV.

Good for you to not ignore and do something.

I recently experienced a similar situation where a neighbor came out and started screaming at me and pounding on the roof of my car. It was insane -- it had to do with a disagreement over plantings along a shared property boundary. Prior to this event we'd only exchanged a few terse emails on the issue. But he lost it and became violent and enraged. I stayed in the car with the doors locked and drove away as soon as I felt I could safely do (I was very upset).

It was witnessed by multiple neighbors but people don't want to "get involved" which means pretending it didn't happen. It's very frustrating. I feel unsafe when I'm around my house without my spouse right now which SUCKS and I feel like I don't have any community support even though I have behaved calmly and responsibly and he has seriously crossed a line.