Teacher issue

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if OP is overreacting and her DC is not exactly following procedures.....this seems like the time for the teacher to set up a meeting to help both child and parent understand what the missing link is. This will make kid accountable to parent and parent will see that the teacher has outlined everything to both parent/kid.

Are you using not following procedures as a euphemism for cheating, or do you not understand what we teachers are saying is likely going on?

Are you concluding, based on extremely limited information, that a student you do not know is a cheater?

Agree an in-person meeting with OP, student, teacher and an admin is needed to clear this up. OP, stop trying to do this via email and make time for the meeting.

I am saying the student is likely not following procedures that are there for a good reason.

PP seems to think that it’s likely a misunderstanding. I am saying that OP needs to go into the meeting understanding that it might not be.

No, you said the student is probably cheating and the PP is just not getting it.

I’m one of the teachers on this thread (but not the one you are responding to). It is the likely cause of this situation, to be honest. It’s the clearest way to make sense of OP’s post. Which is more likely? That the teacher defiantly isn’t grading something, even though time stamps would show when it was submitted proving the teacher is lying? Or that the student didn’t submit properly in an effort to mask the version history?

I am also a teacher. Once you have submitted a document on Google Classroom, you can't edit it unless you unsubmit and resubmit. So there is no way to submit a blank document and go back to change it without the teacher knowing it. There is no way to mask version history on GC. You also can't edit documents on Canvas after it's submitted. I don't know about other LMSs.

And yes, sometimes teachers lie. During COVID, my daughter's work was consistently marked as "missing" when it was clearly submitted on Google Classroom. I could see that the teacher never even opened the documents. I emailed the teacher to inquire, and then magically, a bunch of comments from the teacher were written on the documents. The teacher replied that the work wasn't actually missing, the problem was that my daughter hadn't revised the work and resumbitted. But of course, the commenting feature on Google Docs is date and timestamped, and her comments were all made AFTER I had emailed her. So we got on Zoom for a meeting, I pulled all the documents up to prove that what she was saying simply wasn't the truth. Her only explanation? "Well, I don't know why those dates are there, I made those comments weeks ago-- you should talk to IT because I don't know why it says that." I said "I don't need to talk to IT, because I can see with my own eyes." In my case, administration backed me up because there was irrefutable proof the teacher was simply trying to cover her own ***. Because I am also a teacher, I know how it works. But sometimes teachers count on the fact that parents don't understand the LMS.

Like I said, I am a teacher, I support teachers. But teachers should also be able to back up their grades with evidence. If they resist doing that, it's a red flag.

I’m the PP. Many private schools, including mine, use a different LMS. Students can submit documents and continue to change them within ours.

I still believe this is the clearest way to understand OP’s story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if OP is overreacting and her DC is not exactly following procedures.....this seems like the time for the teacher to set up a meeting to help both child and parent understand what the missing link is. This will make kid accountable to parent and parent will see that the teacher has outlined everything to both parent/kid.

Are you using not following procedures as a euphemism for cheating, or do you not understand what we teachers are saying is likely going on?

Are you concluding, based on extremely limited information, that a student you do not know is a cheater?

Agree an in-person meeting with OP, student, teacher and an admin is needed to clear this up. OP, stop trying to do this via email and make time for the meeting.

I am saying the student is likely not following procedures that are there for a good reason.

PP seems to think that it’s likely a misunderstanding. I am saying that OP needs to go into the meeting understanding that it might not be.

No, you said the student is probably cheating and the PP is just not getting it.

I’m one of the teachers on this thread (but not the one you are responding to). It is the likely cause of this situation, to be honest. It’s the clearest way to make sense of OP’s post. Which is more likely? That the teacher defiantly isn’t grading something, even though time stamps would show when it was submitted proving the teacher is lying? Or that the student didn’t submit properly in an effort to mask the version history?

Or maybe the student isn’t submitting properly because they don’t understand some minutiae in the procedure rather than willfully trying to cheat. You don’t know this kid or the specifics of any of this. There are three possibilities, not one.

It’s 3rd quarter. I suspect students know how to submit docs by now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if OP is overreacting and her DC is not exactly following procedures.....this seems like the time for the teacher to set up a meeting to help both child and parent understand what the missing link is. This will make kid accountable to parent and parent will see that the teacher has outlined everything to both parent/kid.

Are you using not following procedures as a euphemism for cheating, or do you not understand what we teachers are saying is likely going on?

Are you concluding, based on extremely limited information, that a student you do not know is a cheater?

Agree an in-person meeting with OP, student, teacher and an admin is needed to clear this up. OP, stop trying to do this via email and make time for the meeting.

I am saying the student is likely not following procedures that are there for a good reason.

PP seems to think that it’s likely a misunderstanding. I am saying that OP needs to go into the meeting understanding that it might not be.

No, you said the student is probably cheating and the PP is just not getting it.

I’m one of the teachers on this thread (but not the one you are responding to). It is the likely cause of this situation, to be honest. It’s the clearest way to make sense of OP’s post. Which is more likely? That the teacher defiantly isn’t grading something, even though time stamps would show when it was submitted proving the teacher is lying? Or that the student didn’t submit properly in an effort to mask the version history?

Or maybe the student isn’t submitting properly because they don’t understand some minutiae in the procedure rather than willfully trying to cheat. You don’t know this kid or the specifics of any of this. There are three possibilities, not one.

It’s 3rd quarter. I suspect students know how to submit docs by now.

Yes. Students have been trying to get over (if you don’t like the word “cheat”) since the dawn of time. Don’t assume your kid is innocent until you have evidence the teacher is actually in possession of the completed assignments.

Then if you find out your child was being dishonest, please don’t just let it go. Make them apologize to you and the teacher. Otherwise, they’ll just keep doing it.

[Anonymous]

Alot of parents don't deserve good and fair teachers. They should go work it themselves when they use the pta to to play games and get teachers in trouble for working hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The teacher sounds like a bully. I would ask for an in-person meeting and be ready to discuss specific assignments with notes, screenshots, etc so that she knows I’m involved and watching/documenting.

+1
I am really sorry OP. We went through this a couple years ago with an unstable, immature teacher like this and it was hell. The school also backed her up without looking into it. We did give up, but this was not HS so the grades did not really count as DD's other grades were good enough that it did not impact outplacement. I do think these things come around so your child's teacher bully will see consequences just maybe not while your child is a student there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ask for an in person meeting . Bring child’s laptop so you can show what you’re looking at and discuss the discrepancy.
If that doesn’t work and you still think you’re right request a meeting with Principal or HOS.

Agree

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The teacher sounds like a bully. I would ask for an in-person meeting and be ready to discuss specific assignments with notes, screenshots, etc so that she knows I’m involved and watching/documenting.

+1
I am really sorry OP. We went through this a couple years ago with an unstable, immature teacher like this and it was hell. The school also backed her up without looking into it. We did give up, but this was not HS so the grades did not really count as DD's other grades were good enough that it did not impact outplacement. I do think these things come around so your child's teacher bully will see consequences just maybe not while your child is a student there.

Can you point out how the teacher in the OP’s post is being a bully? I just don’t see it. The OP seems to be giving 1/2 the story, and the missing information probably explains why the teacher didn’t give points the first time the document was viewed.

[Anonymous]

Teachers are commonly scapegoated as they are expected to get maimed for the sake of education but they are not allowed to have a morsel of professional autonomy to do their job without entitled parents trying to mess with their careers. Good luck finding your goats to do the job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if OP is overreacting and her DC is not exactly following procedures.....this seems like the time for the teacher to set up a meeting to help both child and parent understand what the missing link is. This will make kid accountable to parent and parent will see that the teacher has outlined everything to both parent/kid.

Yes a meeting makes sense but changing the grade doesn’t.

Where do I say anything about grade changing? I am saying it's time for everyone to sit down together so that the teacher can communicate clearly to the child - and the parent - on what is missing. If the kid is trying to pull one over on the parent - then the parent will finally see this. And if the teacher hasn't communicated effectively to the kid - they will now have done so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if OP is overreacting and her DC is not exactly following procedures.....this seems like the time for the teacher to set up a meeting to help both child and parent understand what the missing link is. This will make kid accountable to parent and parent will see that the teacher has outlined everything to both parent/kid.

Are you using not following procedures as a euphemism for cheating, or do you not understand what we teachers are saying is likely going on?

I'm saying a meeting is now needed where teacher sits down with the parent and the student. If the kid is cheating or not being honest with the parent, the meeting will make this clear and the parent will need to back off.

If, on the other hand, the teacher hasn't communicated effectively to the student on what exactly is missing - the meeting will accomplish this (and the parent will also understand and make sure the student can follow the rules).

I know everyone wants kids to be independent, but clearly in this case, something is missing. Either the kid is lying to the parent or the kid doesn't understand the rules and while the OP wants to blame the teacher - I think it's probably more likely the kid - but even if it's the teacher - it's time for everyone to meet (with good intentions and no finger pointing) and iron out the details so that this kid can move forward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if OP is overreacting and her DC is not exactly following procedures.....this seems like the time for the teacher to set up a meeting to help both child and parent understand what the missing link is. This will make kid accountable to parent and parent will see that the teacher has outlined everything to both parent/kid.

Yes a meeting makes sense but changing the grade doesn’t.

Where do I say anything about grade changing? I am saying it's time for everyone to sit down together so that the teacher can communicate clearly to the child - and the parent - on what is missing. If the kid is trying to pull one over on the parent - then the parent will finally see this. And if the teacher hasn't communicated effectively to the kid - they will now have done so.

I think that sitting down together is a great idea. I do think that if OP goes into this with the intention of forcing a grade change, the teacher is going to respond by gathering information that proves cheating. Once it's proven that the kid cheated then they are opening up the possibility of a suspension or an expulsion.

So, if I was a parent, I would go in with an open mind, saying "I want to understand the correct way to submit assignments going forward" and not something that would put the teacher on the defensive.

I'll also say that the fact that the parent is using the fact that the teacher opened an emailed document as evidence that the teacher received the assignment is unclear about academic dishonesty is detected in the era of AI.

[Anonymous]

Any chance this is happening at Deal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Any chance this is happening at Deal?

Deal is public.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Trust me, I feel dramatic. This is a ridiculous situation and I’ve never experienced anything like this before. First, kid made an appt to see teacher during free period. I try really hard not to get involved. When that didn’t work, we tried the IT solution. We tried a nice email. The reality is that the teacher is getting and seeing the documents - and grading them (but telling us they are late). This makes no sense at all.

What are you waiting for
March in tell the principal or HOS you want an appointment now.

Then show your documents and have them explain one of you is lying.

Only way to fix this is in person with proof.

If you feel strongly the teacher is the problem change schools now

Why are you paying money for a crap teacher?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a teacher I also wonder if the kid is doing something like dropping a completed essay into the google doc, or sharing it as a viewer, or not submitting it to whatever plagiarism/AI detector the school uses.

I’m the teacher who posted above, checking into see if OP updated. I suspect this is what happened. The OP’s son didn’t share correctly, either on purpose or accidentally. Either way, I would do the same thing as the teacher in OP’s post: the assignment isn’t turned in until I can see its originality.

I doubt the school is protecting the teacher, as OP states. The school simply agrees with the teacher because this is standard practice.

I’m the OP. In one case, the teacher made comments in the document that my kid submitted. Therefore, I know my kid submitted the document in the appropriate manner. If my kid had not done so, then the teacher would not have reviewed the work. This is the same document that the teacher claims kid never submitted.

We have requested an in-person meeting. My kid is mortified. Kid does not want us involved but we are more than 1/2 way through the year and the situation remains absurd so I have no choice to be involved. I’m sure my
kid is not 100 percent blameless throughout the year, but the situation is just plain weird. Kid does not have issues with any other class when it comes to submitting work.

And, in response to an earlier poster, no, teacher does not appear to like my kid. That’s ok. My kid is super quiet. I’m guessing kid is even more quiet than before due to stained interactions with teacher.