My MIL is forcing us to pay for my FIL's nursing home because she wants to stay in their house, their only asset

[Anonymous]

OP here again. The retirement homes that we have seen in Germany are wonderful, well-run, with caring staff, almost like resorts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get what you are talking about. No one can force you to pay and if an uncle is getting guardianship they can apply for government assistance. She can keep the house. They just put a lien on it when she passes. I doubt a judge would give a sibling guardianship over a spouse. None of this makes sense.

OP here. My in-laws live in Germany; she wouldn't be able to keep the house there, if she is forced to pay for his
nursing home.

Where does Germany expect your MIL to live? They can’t make her homeless! You say she has no assets except the house. If she sells the house and uses the proceeds to pay for your FIL’s nursing home then is she just homeless? I refuse to believe this is the way things work in Germany. Mainly because this is actually worse than in tge U it’s States and I am quite certain there is a solid social back stop to protect people.

I have a feeling this comes from the MIL’s paranoia and possibly dementia, it’s definitely not based on any German laws.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I should add that it is incredibly selfish of her that she does not want to contribute his retirement income to his care, after he worked hard to support the entire family plus her mother for decades. All because she wants to continue an unsustainable living situation for herself.

You need to stop thinking that way, OP. She's just not in her right mind. German law does not force YOU, a foreigner living on foreign soil, to pay a cent. So you're going to let German regulations take their course. The uncle takes guardianship of his brother, which is great, because his brother's money can then be used for his nursing home care. Then when stubborn MIL takes a bad fall at home, the neighbor or the uncle or whoever reports her to social services, who see with their own eyes that she needs to go into a nursing home, and at this point both are taken care of. No need for you to pay anything (nor will you inherit anything). Your husband is an idiot.

Please stop stressing out over this. It seems there is provision under German law for all of their issues. It's just going to take a little time. Hold the (non-paying) line until then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I should add that it is incredibly selfish of her that she does not want to contribute his retirement income to his care, after he worked hard to support the entire family plus her mother for decades. All because she wants to continue an unsustainable living situation for herself.

You need to stop thinking that way, OP. She's just not in her right mind. German law does not force YOU, a foreigner living on foreign soil, to pay a cent. So you're going to let German regulations take their course. The uncle takes guardianship of his brother, which is great, because his brother's money can then be used for his nursing home care. Then when stubborn MIL takes a bad fall at home, the neighbor or the uncle or whoever reports her to social services, who see with their own eyes that she needs to go into a nursing home, and at this point both are taken care of. No need for you to pay anything (nor will you inherit anything). Your husband is an idiot.

Please stop stressing out over this. It seems there is provision under German law for all of their issues. It's just going to take a little time. Hold the (non-paying) line until then.

OP here. PP, thanks for your reply, I love it!
The funny thing is that social services already paid a visit to MIL last week while investigating my FIL's living situation (who is now in the nursing home) and potential caregiver(s). MIL could not get out of bed when the door bell rang, but not to worry, she told the social worker over the phone to come in, since the key was in the front door from the outside. I was shocked to hear from the neighbor that she regularly keeps the key in the door from the outside so that the neighbor etc can come in (she does not trust him enough to give him a key). Upon seeing this, the social worker has advised us to initiate a guardianship proceeding for her, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think it’s accurate to say she’s forcing you. Your husband wants to.

The law in Germany is on the MIL‘s side. The government could go after the son if he earns more than €100k. How they enforce it overseas is another question.

Why would the German government go after the son instead of forcing the sale of the house to pay for the care? Or garnishing the father’s pension for payment?

[Anonymous]

It's his income, it shouldn't be going to her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think it’s accurate to say she’s forcing you. Your husband wants to.

The law in Germany is on the MIL‘s side. The government could go after the son if he earns more than €100k. How they enforce it overseas is another question.

Is this OP? This was from your original post: " Legally, in Germany the spouse is responsible for the medical costs and nursing home costs of the other spouse. So the guardian can force her to sell the house."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think it’s accurate to say she’s forcing you. Your husband wants to.

The law in Germany is on the MIL‘s side. The government could go after the son if he earns more than €100k. How they enforce it overseas is another question.

Is this OP? This was from your original post: " Legally, in Germany the spouse is responsible for the medical costs and nursing home costs of the other spouse. So the guardian can force her to sell the house."

OP here. I did not write this, it was a different poster. Nevertheless, it is true, adult children are also responsible for the cost of a parent's nursing home care, but only after the assets of the spouse had been exhausted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think it’s accurate to say she’s forcing you. Your husband wants to.

The law in Germany is on the MIL‘s side. The government could go after the son if he earns more than €100k. How they enforce it overseas is another question.

Is this OP? This was from your original post: " Legally, in Germany the spouse is responsible for the medical costs and nursing home costs of the other spouse. So the guardian can force her to sell the house."

OP here. I did not write this, it was a different poster. Nevertheless, it is true, adult children are also responsible for the cost of a parent's nursing home care, but only after the assets of the spouse had been exhausted.

Nevertheless, there is absolutely nothing at all right now that is "forcing" you or your spouse to spend a dime. Your husband WANTS to. You don't. Have a conversation about how you collectively want tot spend your money. Nobody, not the government of your MIL, is forcing either of you to do anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think it’s accurate to say she’s forcing you. Your husband wants to.

The law in Germany is on the MIL‘s side. The government could go after the son if he earns more than €100k. How they enforce it overseas is another question.

Is this OP? This was from your original post: " Legally, in Germany the spouse is responsible for the medical costs and nursing home costs of the other spouse. So the guardian can force her to sell the house."

I posted this and I am not the OP. People who know German and can read legal language are clearly at an advantage over those who just speculate on DCUM. German law doesn’t require the MIL to sell her house. German law requires the AC to contribute toward the cost of AC makes more than €100k. A simple google search on legal articles revealed that. I didn’t know it before either but whatever „you“ think is fair and what the law of a country on another continent requires are two different things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think it’s accurate to say she’s forcing you. Your husband wants to.

The law in Germany is on the MIL‘s side. The government could go after the son if he earns more than €100k. How they enforce it overseas is another question.

Is this OP? This was from your original post: " Legally, in Germany the spouse is responsible for the medical costs and nursing home costs of the other spouse. So the guardian can force her to sell the house."

I posted this and I am not the OP. People who know German and can read legal language are clearly at an advantage over those who just speculate on DCUM. German law doesn’t require the MIL to sell her house. German law requires the AC to contribute toward the cost of AC makes more than €100k. A simple google search on legal articles revealed that. I didn’t know it before either but whatever „you“ think is fair and what the law of a country on another continent requires are two different things.

You are wrong. The German government is not "on MIL's" side.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think it’s accurate to say she’s forcing you. Your husband wants to.

The law in Germany is on the MIL‘s side. The government could go after the son if he earns more than €100k. How they enforce it overseas is another question.

Is this OP? This was from your original post: " Legally, in Germany the spouse is responsible for the medical costs and nursing home costs of the other spouse. So the guardian can force her to sell the house."

I posted this and I am not the OP. People who know German and can read legal language are clearly at an advantage over those who just speculate on DCUM. German law doesn’t require the MIL to sell her house. German law requires the AC to contribute toward the cost of AC makes more than €100k. A simple google search on legal articles revealed that. I didn’t know it before either but whatever „you“ think is fair and what the law of a country on another continent requires are two different things.

You are wrong. The German government is not "on MIL's" side.

Funny - someone who’s probably neither a lawyer, nor a German speaker is lecturing me on German law. Yes - the law clearly states what I wrote above. Enforcement, as I’ve noted above as well, is another story. Btw, even German law as I read it, does not require OP to pay, it only requires her DH - the AC - to pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think it’s accurate to say she’s forcing you. Your husband wants to.

The law in Germany is on the MIL‘s side. The government could go after the son if he earns more than €100k. How they enforce it overseas is another question.

Is this OP? This was from your original post: " Legally, in Germany the spouse is responsible for the medical costs and nursing home costs of the other spouse. So the guardian can force her to sell the house."

I posted this and I am not the OP. People who know German and can read legal language are clearly at an advantage over those who just speculate on DCUM. German law doesn’t require the MIL to sell her house. German law requires the AC to contribute toward the cost of AC makes more than €100k. A simple google search on legal articles revealed that. I didn’t know it before either but whatever „you“ think is fair and what the law of a country on another continent requires are two different things.

You are wrong. The German government is not "on MIL's" side.

Read this and then lecture me again. I am done with this and don’t want t o spend additional precious time on a legal matter that I don’t care about and that doesn’t affect me.

https://www.verbraucherzentrale.de/wissen/gesundheit-pflege/pflege-im-heim/elternunterhalt-kinder-zahlen-erst-ab-100000-euro-jahreseinkommen-28892

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think it’s accurate to say she’s forcing you. Your husband wants to.

The law in Germany is on the MIL‘s side. The government could go after the son if he earns more than €100k. How they enforce it overseas is another question.

Is this OP? This was from your original post: " Legally, in Germany the spouse is responsible for the medical costs and nursing home costs of the other spouse. So the guardian can force her to sell the house."

I posted this and I am not the OP. People who know German and can read legal language are clearly at an advantage over those who just speculate on DCUM. German law doesn’t require the MIL to sell her house. German law requires the AC to contribute toward the cost of AC makes more than €100k. A simple google search on legal articles revealed that. I didn’t know it before either but whatever „you“ think is fair and what the law of a country on another continent requires are two different things.

You are wrong. The German government is not "on MIL's" side.

Read this and then lecture me again. I am done with this and don’t want t o spend additional precious time on a legal matter that I don’t care about and that doesn’t affect me.

https://www.verbraucherzentrale.de/wissen/gesundheit-pflege/pflege-im-heim/elternunterhalt-kinder-zahlen-erst-ab-100000-euro-jahreseinkommen-28892

From the OP:

" In recent months it turned out that his retirement income is double the amount she claims. She herself has no retirement income, having been a housewife."
" My mother-in-law refuses to give up any part of his salary, and tells us that we have to pay for it if that is what we want."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I should add that it is incredibly selfish of her that she does not want to contribute his retirement income to his care, after he worked hard to support the entire family plus her mother for decades. All because she wants to continue an unsustainable living situation for herself.

You need to stop thinking that way, OP. She's just not in her right mind. German law does not force YOU, a foreigner living on foreign soil, to pay a cent. So you're going to let German regulations take their course. The uncle takes guardianship of his brother, which is great, because his brother's money can then be used for his nursing home care. Then when stubborn MIL takes a bad fall at home, the neighbor or the uncle or whoever reports her to social services, who see with their own eyes that she needs to go into a nursing home, and at this point both are taken care of. No need for you to pay anything (nor will you inherit anything). Your husband is an idiot.

Please stop stressing out over this. It seems there is provision under German law for all of their issues. It's just going to take a little time. Hold the (non-paying) line until then.

OP here. PP, thanks for your reply, I love it!
The funny thing is that social services already paid a visit to MIL last week while investigating my FIL's living situation (who is now in the nursing home) and potential caregiver(s). MIL could not get out of bed when the door bell rang, but not to worry, she told the social worker over the phone to come in, since the key was in the front door from the outside. I was shocked to hear from the neighbor that she regularly keeps the key in the door from the outside so that the neighbor etc can come in (she does not trust him enough to give him a key). Upon seeing this, the social worker has advised us to initiate a guardianship proceeding for her, too.

Good. Things are moving.