Do you there can be a 2 state solution in the Middle East?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I don't see any politically palatable way to divide the west bank. I think we're a generation away from a one state solution being imposed on Israel one the politics in the US shifts

The US doesn’t have that kind of power. We can take away our funding, but it’s not like Israel will fold. Israel is too resilient for that.

Any kind of peace deal will be done on their terms.

Look at South Africa if you want the template. Divestment and boycotts with some sanctions are enough to force policy in a country that is in no way self sufficient economically. It won't happen for a long time, but the polling make it clear that millennials and gen z do not support Israel the same way the boomers do

How are those sanctions working on Iran and Russia? Sure, it hurts, but there are ways to survive. The Jewish people have a long history of enduring persecution. In their minds, what’s one more?

You can’t force them to give up a Jewish state short of military force, which we won’t do.

Not with the standard of living that Israel currently enjoys. Israel has no resources to speak of. It is totally reliant on international trade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I don't see any politically palatable way to divide the west bank. I think we're a generation away from a one state solution being imposed on Israel one the politics in the US shifts

The US doesn’t have that kind of power. We can take away our funding, but it’s not like Israel will fold. Israel is too resilient for that.

Any kind of peace deal will be done on their terms.

Look at South Africa if you want the template. Divestment and boycotts with some sanctions are enough to force policy in a country that is in no way self sufficient economically. It won't happen for a long time, but the polling make it clear that millennials and gen z do not support Israel the same way the boomers do

How are those sanctions working on Iran and Russia? Sure, it hurts, but there are ways to survive. The Jewish people have a long history of enduring persecution. In their minds, what’s one more?

You can’t force them to give up a Jewish state short of military force, which we won’t do.

The better analogy is how sanctions worked on Iraq. Go look into that and then tell me you think any of the dual citizens who made aliyat would stay there for 30 seconds. They’d run back to Europe, America, and Canada as quickly as they came and take any semblance of Israeli economy with them. Israel would collapse and become a failed state in no time at all and its neighbors would finish it off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I don't see any politically palatable way to divide the west bank. I think we're a generation away from a one state solution being imposed on Israel one the politics in the US shifts

The US doesn’t have that kind of power. We can take away our funding, but it’s not like Israel will fold. Israel is too resilient for that.

Any kind of peace deal will be done on their terms.

Look at South Africa if you want the template. Divestment and boycotts with some sanctions are enough to force policy in a country that is in no way self sufficient economically. It won't happen for a long time, but the polling make it clear that millennials and gen z do not support Israel the same way the boomers do

How are those sanctions working on Iran and Russia? Sure, it hurts, but there are ways to survive. The Jewish people have a long history of enduring persecution. In their minds, what’s one more?

You can’t force them to give up a Jewish state short of military force, which we won’t do.

The better analogy is how sanctions worked on Iraq. Go look into that and then tell me you think any of the dual citizens who made aliyat would stay there for 30 seconds. They’d run back to Europe, America, and Canada as quickly as they came and take any semblance of Israeli economy with them. Israel would collapse and become a failed state in no time at all and its neighbors would finish it off.

You're assuming everyone will sanction Israel. I highly doubt Germany, for example, will ever sanction Israel short of Israel using nukes. They have a big influence on the EU. India is a friend of Israel. Israel will turn to China if it had to.

Israel also has nukes. The West won't put Israel in a position where Israel would be tempted to use them. It's why we were so slow to give Ukraine our weapons. We didn't want to provoke Russia to the point of using nukes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I don't see any politically palatable way to divide the west bank. I think we're a generation away from a one state solution being imposed on Israel one the politics in the US shifts

The US doesn’t have that kind of power. We can take away our funding, but it’s not like Israel will fold. Israel is too resilient for that.

Any kind of peace deal will be done on their terms.

Look at South Africa if you want the template. Divestment and boycotts with some sanctions are enough to force policy in a country that is in no way self sufficient economically. It won't happen for a long time, but the polling make it clear that millennials and gen z do not support Israel the same way the boomers do

How are those sanctions working on Iran and Russia? Sure, it hurts, but there are ways to survive. The Jewish people have a long history of enduring persecution. In their minds, what’s one more?

You can’t force them to give up a Jewish state short of military force, which we won’t do.

The better analogy is how sanctions worked on Iraq. Go look into that and then tell me you think any of the dual citizens who made aliyat would stay there for 30 seconds. They’d run back to Europe, America, and Canada as quickly as they came and take any semblance of Israeli economy with them. Israel would collapse and become a failed state in no time at all and its neighbors would finish it off.

You're assuming everyone will sanction Israel. I highly doubt Germany, for example, will ever sanction Israel short of Israel using nukes. They have a big influence on the EU. India is a friend of Israel. Israel will turn to China if it had to.

Israel also has nukes. The West won't put Israel in a position where Israel would be tempted to use them. It's why we were so slow to give Ukraine our weapons. We didn't want to provoke Russia to the point of using nukes.

Yes, I keep hearing that Israel will use nukes. (You know we’re dealing with a totally democratic, non-terrorist state that deserves our support when “we’ll use nukes!” is the response to “stop stealing and killing”) But what do you think happens to Israel and, most importantly, the rest of the world’s Jews, then? Does Israel take out all of the world’s nuclear powers in your fantasy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I don't see any politically palatable way to divide the west bank. I think we're a generation away from a one state solution being imposed on Israel one the politics in the US shifts

The US doesn’t have that kind of power. We can take away our funding, but it’s not like Israel will fold. Israel is too resilient for that.

Any kind of peace deal will be done on their terms.

Look at South Africa if you want the template. Divestment and boycotts with some sanctions are enough to force policy in a country that is in no way self sufficient economically. It won't happen for a long time, but the polling make it clear that millennials and gen z do not support Israel the same way the boomers do

How are those sanctions working on Iran and Russia? Sure, it hurts, but there are ways to survive. The Jewish people have a long history of enduring persecution. In their minds, what’s one more?

You can’t force them to give up a Jewish state short of military force, which we won’t do.

The better analogy is how sanctions worked on Iraq. Go look into that and then tell me you think any of the dual citizens who made aliyat would stay there for 30 seconds. They’d run back to Europe, America, and Canada as quickly as they came and take any semblance of Israeli economy with them. Israel would collapse and become a failed state in no time at all and its neighbors would finish it off.

You're assuming everyone will sanction Israel. I highly doubt Germany, for example, will ever sanction Israel short of Israel using nukes. They have a big influence on the EU. India is a friend of Israel. Israel will turn to China if it had to.

Israel also has nukes. The West won't put Israel in a position where Israel would be tempted to use them. It's why we were so slow to give Ukraine our weapons. We didn't want to provoke Russia to the point of using nukes.

Yes, I keep hearing that Israel will use nukes. (You know we’re dealing with a totally democratic, non-terrorist state that deserves our support when “we’ll use nukes!” is the response to “stop stealing and killing”) But what do you think happens to Israel and, most importantly, the rest of the world’s Jews, then? Does Israel take out all of the world’s nuclear powers in your fantasy?

Israel doesn't want to use nukes, but it's there as a security blanket. Same reason every country keeps nukes. For some reason you're singling out Israel as the bad guy for having nukes. Maybe because you're biased.

We will never put Israel in a position where they might need to use their nukes, so I don't really need to go through that thought experiment. It won't ever get there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I don't see any politically palatable way to divide the west bank. I think we're a generation away from a one state solution being imposed on Israel one the politics in the US shifts

The US doesn’t have that kind of power. We can take away our funding, but it’s not like Israel will fold. Israel is too resilient for that.

Any kind of peace deal will be done on their terms.

Look at South Africa if you want the template. Divestment and boycotts with some sanctions are enough to force policy in a country that is in no way self sufficient economically. It won't happen for a long time, but the polling make it clear that millennials and gen z do not support Israel the same way the boomers do

How are those sanctions working on Iran and Russia? Sure, it hurts, but there are ways to survive. The Jewish people have a long history of enduring persecution. In their minds, what’s one more?

You can’t force them to give up a Jewish state short of military force, which we won’t do.

The better analogy is how sanctions worked on Iraq. Go look into that and then tell me you think any of the dual citizens who made aliyat would stay there for 30 seconds. They’d run back to Europe, America, and Canada as quickly as they came and take any semblance of Israeli economy with them. Israel would collapse and become a failed state in no time at all and its neighbors would finish it off.

You're assuming everyone will sanction Israel. I highly doubt Germany, for example, will ever sanction Israel short of Israel using nukes. They have a big influence on the EU. India is a friend of Israel. Israel will turn to China if it had to.

Israel also has nukes. The West won't put Israel in a position where Israel would be tempted to use them. It's why we were so slow to give Ukraine our weapons. We didn't want to provoke Russia to the point of using nukes.

Yes, I keep hearing that Israel will use nukes. (You know we’re dealing with a totally democratic, non-terrorist state that deserves our support when “we’ll use nukes!” is the response to “stop stealing and killing”) But what do you think happens to Israel and, most importantly, the rest of the world’s Jews, then? Does Israel take out all of the world’s nuclear powers in your fantasy?

Israel doesn't want to use nukes, but it's there as a security blanket. Same reason every country keeps nukes. For some reason you're singling out Israel as the bad guy for having nukes. Maybe because you're biased.

We will never put Israel in a position where they might need to use their nukes, so I don't really need to go through that thought experiment. It won't ever get there.

You suggested that the West will forever support Israel on the pain of Israel using its nukes. And I asked you what happens in that scenario. You think the nuclear nations of the world will sit around discussing sanctions while Israel drops nukes on them on by one? You think the world will be understanding towards the non-Israeli Jews who had nothing to do with the decision?

Come back to reality. The threat that Israel will use nukes is foolish tough talk by keyboard gangsters and nothing else. It’s Israelis themselves who will neutralize anyone willing to use nukes because they know that not only their fates, but also the fates of the ALL of the world’s Jews depend on keeping their atrocities cabined to Palestinians and normal warfare. As a Jewish woman, I know that the holocaust will seem like a dream compared to the worldwide genocide of Jews that Israeli use of nukes will unleash. Israel will do no such thing and the intelligence services of the world know that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I don't see any politically palatable way to divide the west bank. I think we're a generation away from a one state solution being imposed on Israel one the politics in the US shifts

The US doesn’t have that kind of power. We can take away our funding, but it’s not like Israel will fold. Israel is too resilient for that.

Any kind of peace deal will be done on their terms.

Look at South Africa if you want the template. Divestment and boycotts with some sanctions are enough to force policy in a country that is in no way self sufficient economically. It won't happen for a long time, but the polling make it clear that millennials and gen z do not support Israel the same way the boomers do

How are those sanctions working on Iran and Russia? Sure, it hurts, but there are ways to survive. The Jewish people have a long history of enduring persecution. In their minds, what’s one more?

You can’t force them to give up a Jewish state short of military force, which we won’t do.

The better analogy is how sanctions worked on Iraq. Go look into that and then tell me you think any of the dual citizens who made aliyat would stay there for 30 seconds. They’d run back to Europe, America, and Canada as quickly as they came and take any semblance of Israeli economy with them. Israel would collapse and become a failed state in no time at all and its neighbors would finish it off.

You're assuming everyone will sanction Israel. I highly doubt Germany, for example, will ever sanction Israel short of Israel using nukes. They have a big influence on the EU. India is a friend of Israel. Israel will turn to China if it had to.

Israel also has nukes. The West won't put Israel in a position where Israel would be tempted to use them. It's why we were so slow to give Ukraine our weapons. We didn't want to provoke Russia to the point of using nukes.

Yes, I keep hearing that Israel will use nukes. (You know we’re dealing with a totally democratic, non-terrorist state that deserves our support when “we’ll use nukes!” is the response to “stop stealing and killing”) But what do you think happens to Israel and, most importantly, the rest of the world’s Jews, then? Does Israel take out all of the world’s nuclear powers in your fantasy?

Israel doesn't want to use nukes, but it's there as a security blanket. Same reason every country keeps nukes. For some reason you're singling out Israel as the bad guy for having nukes. Maybe because you're biased.

We will never put Israel in a position where they might need to use their nukes, so I don't really need to go through that thought experiment. It won't ever get there.

NP here. A minister in Netanyahu’s cabinet stated recently that dropping s nuclear bomb on Gaza (where 2+ million civilians, many of them children are currently stuck) was an option. This is not a deranged fringe guy, is a cabinet member of Netanyahu’s government AND HE STILL IS. So maybe you are the one biased when it come to concerns about Israel having nukes

[Anonymous]

I think it's fantasy to believe the West will force Israel into a Palestinian one state solution. Too many people believe Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state.

[Anonymous]

You can probably lock this thread. For there to be a two state solution both sides need to actually believe in a two state solution.

Otherwise, it's status quo until the next generation comes into power. Then we'll see what happens then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I don't see any politically palatable way to divide the west bank. I think we're a generation away from a one state solution being imposed on Israel one the politics in the US shifts

The US doesn’t have that kind of power. We can take away our funding, but it’s not like Israel will fold. Israel is too resilient for that.

Any kind of peace deal will be done on their terms.

Look at South Africa if you want the template. Divestment and boycotts with some sanctions are enough to force policy in a country that is in no way self sufficient economically. It won't happen for a long time, but the polling make it clear that millennials and gen z do not support Israel the same way the boomers do

How are those sanctions working on Iran and Russia? Sure, it hurts, but there are ways to survive. The Jewish people have a long history of enduring persecution. In their minds, what’s one more?

You can’t force them to give up a Jewish state short of military force, which we won’t do.

The better analogy is how sanctions worked on Iraq. Go look into that and then tell me you think any of the dual citizens who made aliyat would stay there for 30 seconds. They’d run back to Europe, America, and Canada as quickly as they came and take any semblance of Israeli economy with them. Israel would collapse and become a failed state in no time at all and its neighbors would finish it off.

You're assuming everyone will sanction Israel. I highly doubt Germany, for example, will ever sanction Israel short of Israel using nukes. They have a big influence on the EU. India is a friend of Israel. Israel will turn to China if it had to.

Israel also has nukes. The West won't put Israel in a position where Israel would be tempted to use them. It's why we were so slow to give Ukraine our weapons. We didn't want to provoke Russia to the point of using nukes.

Yes, I keep hearing that Israel will use nukes. (You know we’re dealing with a totally democratic, non-terrorist state that deserves our support when “we’ll use nukes!” is the response to “stop stealing and killing”) But what do you think happens to Israel and, most importantly, the rest of the world’s Jews, then? Does Israel take out all of the world’s nuclear powers in your fantasy?

Israel doesn't want to use nukes, but it's there as a security blanket. Same reason every country keeps nukes. For some reason you're singling out Israel as the bad guy for having nukes. Maybe because you're biased.

We will never put Israel in a position where they might need to use their nukes, so I don't really need to go through that thought experiment. It won't ever get there.

NP here. A minister in Netanyahu’s cabinet stated recently that dropping s nuclear bomb on Gaza (where 2+ million civilians, many of them children are currently stuck) was an option. This is not a deranged fringe guy, is a cabinet member of Netanyahu’s government AND HE STILL IS. So maybe you are the one biased when it come to concerns about Israel having nukes

States armed with nuclear weapons always have options of using them. DoD has nuclear options on the table for a number of scenarios. The President travels with the “football” in case an immediate employment of nuclear weapons is required.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a firm believer than a 2-state solution is the only palatable one. Status quo is just not workable and it’s frankly immoral and unfair to the Palestinians. A one-state solution would result in mass murders and expulsions of Jews. The world can’t let that happen again.

The Israelis did make a good-faith start towards a 2-state Soltan and they get zero credit for it in the media today. They turned Gaza over to the Palestinians in 2005. Hopefully a true leader can emerge on the Palestinian side who can lead them to a “redo” of that. If the start of a 2-state solution can emerge from the ashes of Gaza, that could start the long journey to liberating the West Bank.

The Jews of Israel are currently mass murdering and expelling Palestinians. Why are Jews entitled to protection from what they are doing to others? I ask this as a Jew, so miss me with the “antisemitism” emotional blackmail.

There were globally agreed upon borders of a 2-state solution. When the countries surrounding Israel invaded in ‘48 to destroy Israel, Israel won and the ‘67 borders were set. At some point, either the Palestinians need to create a Palestinian state within the new borders or continuously live in a state of war. They have chosen war. What is Israel supposed to do when people who want them destroyed keep attacking? If the Palestinians had accepted the ‘67 borders, we would be 50+ years into a peaceful 2-state solution with peace and thriving for everyone. And if there is peace, the borders could be open.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a firm believer than a 2-state solution is the only palatable one. Status quo is just not workable and it’s frankly immoral and unfair to the Palestinians. A one-state solution would result in mass murders and expulsions of Jews. The world can’t let that happen again.

The Israelis did make a good-faith start towards a 2-state Soltan and they get zero credit for it in the media today. They turned Gaza over to the Palestinians in 2005. Hopefully a true leader can emerge on the Palestinian side who can lead them to a “redo” of that. If the start of a 2-state solution can emerge from the ashes of Gaza, that could start the long journey to liberating the West Bank.

They withdrew from a strip of land that was incapable of supporting the 2 million inhabitants living there (the majority of who were forced out of Israel proper).

There were only a million people there in 2005 when they withdrew. And if they had created a safe and peaceful society in Gaza, then the West Bank could have followed. There is way more land there (and there were way fewer settlers in the West Bank then). The settlers are a difficult problem (illegal and immoral that they are there). The Palestinians should get all of the West Bank in a 2-state solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I don't see any politically palatable way to divide the west bank. I think we're a generation away from a one state solution being imposed on Israel one the politics in the US shifts

The US doesn’t have that kind of power. We can take away our funding, but it’s not like Israel will fold. Israel is too resilient for that.

Any kind of peace deal will be done on their terms.

Look at South Africa if you want the template. Divestment and boycotts with some sanctions are enough to force policy in a country that is in no way self sufficient economically. It won't happen for a long time, but the polling make it clear that millennials and gen z do not support Israel the same way the boomers do

South Africa dismantled apartheid on their own. Boycotts, sanctions and disinvestment had very little effect, and disinvestment did not result in reinvestment after majority black rule, which was something everyone knew would not happen

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it's fantasy to believe the West will force Israel into a Palestinian one state solution. Too many people believe Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state.

No that is not true. The Israel as a Jewish state support is very shallow and weak. You are stating that only a Jewish state is what you want but in the US Jews only make up 2-3% of the population. So why should the US or other western powers care about a Jewish state? The only benefits of a Jewish is given to 2% of the population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When India and Pakistan were formed 15 million people moved willingly or mostly were forced to move so that Muslims ended up in Pakistan and Hindus in India.

I think that would be the only way to have a two state solution- forced upheaval and migration. I don't know how they would agree on which areas but when I look on a map I don't understand why to the north of the West Bank the land wasn't given to Palestinians so that they had a border with Lebanon. Or land adjoining Lebanon with it curving around to join the West Bank so there is Mediterranean Sea access.

Cited the Indian partition is a horrible example. Millions died.