MCPS School Hours

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the same white liberal quackery that tries to reinvent things no one needs or asked them to.

White liberals screamed for year-round school and touted all kinds of supposed benefits and pointed to data on how much learning loss happens. So MCPS introduced the innovative school year calendar and now the staff at Roscoe Nix are crying to the BOE every month about how awful it is, how their families hate it and how they’re dying to go back to the traditional school year calendar.

White liberal fantasies rarely stand up to reality.

Science denialism strikes again!
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25156998/

"the evidence strongly implicates earlier school start times (ie, before 8:30 am) as a key modifiable contributor to insufficient sleep, as well as circadian rhythm disruption, in this population. Furthermore, a substantial body of research has now demonstrated that delaying school start times is an effective countermeasure to chronic sleep loss and has a wide range of potential benefits to students with regard to physical and mental health, safety, and academic achievement."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Curious what the general consensus is on the MCPS school hours?

Elementary: 9:25AM - 3:45PM
Middle: 9:00AM - 3:00PM
HS: 7:45AM - 2:30PM

Elementary starting after most jobs' normal working hours seems... odd but them getting out relatively late so parents can get home from work soon after is better.

I get that HS and MS to a lesser extent get out earlier and start earlier to make room for after school sports/activities + homework. But what exactly is the problem with having later practices? Second, homework is not an effective way to learn and practice should be done in classroom, not out of it. Lastly, several recent studies about start times is the later the better for students' (especially teenagers) sleep, attentiveness, health, and learning outcomes.

I'm short, what in the world is the reasoning here and why haven't MCPS updated with the times? Are there vested interests (teachers, admins, parents(!?)) against it?

Middle starts at 8. Would be nice for 9 bc advisory is absolutely pointless.

Middle school is supposed to start at 8:15. These bell times have been policy since 2015, but like most things MCPS it’s followed loosely:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/info/belltimes/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ideally everyone should start at 8:30 or so. And we should have many more smaller ES to eliminate ES busses so only MS and HS is bussed.

This is an urban county - there isn't land for more elementary schools, even smaller ones, esp. in down-county.

And even of there were land, and money to buy it, MCPS wouldn't build a small one - their motto is "the bigger the better!" They want:
ES - 770/800
MS - 1500
HS - 2700 (WJ they wanted to build to 3500!)

State of MD says the sweet spot (otherwise too big, and you lose too much even though you gain economies of scale) is:
ES - 600
MS - 1000
HS - 2000

That is not their motto. Stop being ridiculous. The problem is that there isn’t land and unlimited funds for multiple schools. When you build a school the expenses go beyond just the building. There’s also the land needed surrounding for things like football fields. There’s also teachers, counselors, admins needed for each school. Bus routes needed if there are not acceptable Ride On bus routes and schedules. Then you still have to support the clubs and teams and each school. Etc etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the same white liberal quackery that tries to reinvent things no one needs or asked them to.

White liberals screamed for year-round school and touted all kinds of supposed benefits and pointed to data on how much learning loss happens. So MCPS introduced the innovative school year calendar and now the staff at Roscoe Nix are crying to the BOE every month about how awful it is, how their families hate it and how they’re dying to go back to the traditional school year calendar.

White liberal fantasies rarely stand up to reality.

Science denialism strikes again!
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25156998/

"the evidence strongly implicates earlier school start times (ie, before 8:30 am) as a key modifiable contributor to insufficient sleep, as well as circadian rhythm disruption, in this population. Furthermore, a substantial body of research has now demonstrated that delaying school start times is an effective countermeasure to chronic sleep loss and has a wide range of potential benefits to students with regard to physical and mental health, safety, and academic achievement."

The same data points were pulled out about learning loss due to summers in favor of the innovative school year calendars. But those data points don’t seem to matter as staff, students and parents hate year-round school and are demanding to revert to the traditional school calendar.

You are advocating for a pushed back start time of 30-45 minutes. I promise you that teenagers will find a a way to eat that time up as they will adjust their bed times later.

You have to stop living in fantasyland.

Furthermore, when I was in MCPS, our start time was 7:15. So we’ve already given these kids 30 minutes back by starting HS at 7:45. And now you’re saying it’s still not enough. You’ll never be satisfied and you’ll never hold yourself accountable for the obvious negative trade offs that come with your idealized fantasy of kids starting HS at 9 am.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the same white liberal quackery that tries to reinvent things no one needs or asked them to.

White liberals screamed for year-round school and touted all kinds of supposed benefits and pointed to data on how much learning loss happens. So MCPS introduced the innovative school year calendar and now the staff at Roscoe Nix are crying to the BOE every month about how awful it is, how their families hate it and how they’re dying to go back to the traditional school year calendar.

White liberal fantasies rarely stand up to reality.

Science denialism strikes again!
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25156998/

"the evidence strongly implicates earlier school start times (ie, before 8:30 am) as a key modifiable contributor to insufficient sleep, as well as circadian rhythm disruption, in this population. Furthermore, a substantial body of research has now demonstrated that delaying school start times is an effective countermeasure to chronic sleep loss and has a wide range of potential benefits to students with regard to physical and mental health, safety, and academic achievement."

The same data points were pulled out about learning loss due to summers in favor of the innovative school year calendars. But those data points don’t seem to matter as staff, students and parents hate year-round school and are demanding to revert to the traditional school calendar.

You are advocating for a pushed back start time of 30-45 minutes. I promise you that teenagers will find a a way to eat that time up as they will adjust their bed times later.

You have to stop living in fantasyland.

Furthermore, when I was in MCPS, our start time was 7:15. So we’ve already given these kids 30 minutes back by starting HS at 7:45. And now you’re saying it’s still not enough. You’ll never be satisfied and you’ll never hold yourself accountable for the obvious negative trade offs that come with your idealized fantasy of kids starting HS at 9 am.

And you walked uphill both ways in the snow. I get it. Your personal experience and opinion are more important than peer reviewed science. AKA science denialism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the same white liberal quackery that tries to reinvent things no one needs or asked them to.

White liberals screamed for year-round school and touted all kinds of supposed benefits and pointed to data on how much learning loss happens. So MCPS introduced the innovative school year calendar and now the staff at Roscoe Nix are crying to the BOE every month about how awful it is, how their families hate it and how they’re dying to go back to the traditional school year calendar.

White liberal fantasies rarely stand up to reality.

Science denialism strikes again!
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25156998/

"the evidence strongly implicates earlier school start times (ie, before 8:30 am) as a key modifiable contributor to insufficient sleep, as well as circadian rhythm disruption, in this population. Furthermore, a substantial body of research has now demonstrated that delaying school start times is an effective countermeasure to chronic sleep loss and has a wide range of potential benefits to students with regard to physical and mental health, safety, and academic achievement."

The same data points were pulled out about learning loss due to summers in favor of the innovative school year calendars. But those data points don’t seem to matter as staff, students and parents hate year-round school and are demanding to revert to the traditional school calendar.

You are advocating for a pushed back start time of 30-45 minutes. I promise you that teenagers will find a a way to eat that time up as they will adjust their bed times later.

You have to stop living in fantasyland.

Furthermore, when I was in MCPS, our start time was 7:15. So we’ve already given these kids 30 minutes back by starting HS at 7:45. And now you’re saying it’s still not enough. You’ll never be satisfied and you’ll never hold yourself accountable for the obvious negative trade offs that come with your idealized fantasy of kids starting HS at 9 am.

And you walked uphill both ways in the snow. I get it. Your personal experience and opinion are more important than peer reviewed science. AKA science denialism.

You can find a study to prove your wishes on any topic. If your kids cannot get up for hs, homeschool or look at other options.

And, mcps has a two mike rule for hs so sone kids are walking uphill in snow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the same white liberal quackery that tries to reinvent things no one needs or asked them to.

White liberals screamed for year-round school and touted all kinds of supposed benefits and pointed to data on how much learning loss happens. So MCPS introduced the innovative school year calendar and now the staff at Roscoe Nix are crying to the BOE every month about how awful it is, how their families hate it and how they’re dying to go back to the traditional school year calendar.

White liberal fantasies rarely stand up to reality.

Science denialism strikes again!
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25156998/

"the evidence strongly implicates earlier school start times (ie, before 8:30 am) as a key modifiable contributor to insufficient sleep, as well as circadian rhythm disruption, in this population. Furthermore, a substantial body of research has now demonstrated that delaying school start times is an effective countermeasure to chronic sleep loss and has a wide range of potential benefits to students with regard to physical and mental health, safety, and academic achievement."

The same data points were pulled out about learning loss due to summers in favor of the innovative school year calendars. But those data points don’t seem to matter as staff, students and parents hate year-round school and are demanding to revert to the traditional school calendar.

You are advocating for a pushed back start time of 30-45 minutes. I promise you that teenagers will find a a way to eat that time up as they will adjust their bed times later.

You have to stop living in fantasyland.

Furthermore, when I was in MCPS, our start time was 7:15. So we’ve already given these kids 30 minutes back by starting HS at 7:45. And now you’re saying it’s still not enough. You’ll never be satisfied and you’ll never hold yourself accountable for the obvious negative trade offs that come with your idealized fantasy of kids starting HS at 9 am.

And you walked uphill both ways in the snow. I get it. Your personal experience and opinion are more important than peer reviewed science. AKA science denialism.

Homeschool your children and start school at 10 am if you want and leave the rest of us alone. Stop trying to force your delusions and preferences on the masses who didn’t ask for it and don’t want it. Find something better to do with your time.

[Anonymous]

Our elementary starts at 9, and middle at 8:15. I think those are fine but high school starts too early.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our elementary starts at 9, and middle at 8:15. I think those are fine but high school starts too early.

HS starts at 7:45. In college it is not unusual to have a class that starts at 8 am.

You people keep infantilizing and lowering the bar and expectations for high schoolers whose next step is either college or vocational school or the army.

It is not uncommon to wake up way earlier than 8 am for the military or an electrician/HVAC/construction apprentice or for an 8 am college class.

These kids have to be capable and ready to wake up and start their day before 9 am.

That is the reality of so many adult professions, whether it’s doctors, nurses, police officers, plumbers, construction workers, teachers, etc.

This is why our kids have no resilience. You have a generation of mothers who henpeck and insist everything is too hard or unfair for their children and when systems or people don’t bend to their whims, they whine, cry and get depressed and try to complain their way out of it. Just shut up and do what needs to get done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The studies have shown that early bed times don't help, they actually need to start later. And the homework being so onerous sounds like the real problem here, would love to hear why it's even necessary in this day and age.

They have taken homework away. It’s only 10% of the grade so many kids skip it since they don’t mind taking the hit.

You know what result is? Kids are struggling to pass tests and they’re unprepared for college, where homework is expected of them. You live in fantasyland.

Exactly this. They aren't prepared especially in math and reading comprehension as there is no practice.

Read the studies, sleeping in later is objectively better for students, parents, and outcomes

People on this site don’t like to read anything. They believe what they believe and that’s it. You cannot change their minds with actual research

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This has been discussed to death and it's never going to change. Put your thoughts to other things, people.

People always say things will never change and you should give up. That is a bad message for kids. Things can and do change when enough voices are heard. MCPS will eventually catch up with other school districts that have initiated later start times due to the importance of teenagers getting more sleep. Many many school districts have gone to later high school times and it has worked out well for them.

[Anonymous]

High school should not start before 8 am.
Follow the science, people!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The studies have shown that early bed times don't help, they actually need to start later. And the homework being so onerous sounds like the real problem here, would love to hear why it's even necessary in this day and age.

They have taken homework away. It’s only 10% of the grade so many kids skip it since they don’t mind taking the hit.

You know what result is? Kids are struggling to pass tests and they’re unprepared for college, where homework is expected of them. You live in fantasyland.

Exactly this. They aren't prepared especially in math and reading comprehension as there is no practice.

Read the studies, sleeping in later is objectively better for students, parents, and outcomes

Oh, this is easy to fix. Just set your clock ahead an hour. It solves everything!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:High school should not start before 8 am.
Follow the science, people!

College classes start at 8 am. How do you expect high schoolers to be preppy for that if they’ve never had to do that before?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Curious what the general consensus is on the MCPS school hours?

Elementary: 9:25AM - 3:45PM
Middle: 9:00AM - 3:00PM
HS: 7:45AM - 2:30PM

Elementary starting after most jobs' normal working hours seems... odd but them getting out relatively late so parents can get home from work soon after is better.

I get that HS and MS to a lesser extent get out earlier and start earlier to make room for after school sports/activities + homework. But what exactly is the problem with having later practices? Second, homework is not an effective way to learn and practice should be done in classroom, not out of it. Lastly, several recent studies about start times is the later the better for students' (especially teenagers) sleep, attentiveness, health, and learning outcomes.

I'm short, what in the world is the reasoning here and why haven't MCPS updated with the times? Are there vested interests (teachers, admins, parents(!?)) against it?

Middle starts at 8. Would be nice for 9 bc advisory is absolutely pointless.

Middle school is supposed to start at 8:15. These bell times have been policy since 2015, but like most things MCPS it’s followed loosely:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/info/belltimes/

Forest Oak starts at 8:00. Lockers till 8:08 then advisory until 8:43. I just saw eastern has doors open as early as 7:50 on their bell schedule. It’s clearly different for each building.