DC council wants to boot cars even if tickets were paid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC should offer a discount on registration for low-income and offer to pay some of the insurance for them if they have no unpaid tickets. Give a 3-month grace period for people to come current, then impound the hell out of cars with fake/illegal tags (there's a guy who parks in my neighborhood with virginia "farm use" tags) and ones with unpaid tickets.

The folks who say "well you're just as bad a driver if you get a lot of tickets and pay them"--show me that there is any car that gets at least 10 tickets a year and is not currently tow-eligible and then we can talk about that. I am not sure there really are people who get that many tickets and pay them. If there are, there could be different solutions depending on who they are--like are they a home health aide or construction worker or delivery person who can't find legal parking? Are they someone who speeds and runs red lights every day? The deterrents would be different for each. But we don't have to think much about the deterrents unless these cars actually exist. If they don't, and the worst drivers are in fact the ones with lots of unpaid tickets, increasing towing is a good solution. And hiring more tow crews is a good way to increase employment in DC.

I think it's highly likely that there are drivers who regularly receive speed camera tickets and pay them. I know several people who got multiple tickets from the same camera (not in DC), because they said they kept forgetting...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe DC is starting to take it seriously.

https://dcist.com/story/23/07/10/series-of-d-c-council-bills-aim-to-get-dangerous-drivers-off-the-roads-faster/

While most of what is being proposed by Allen and Henderson is sound, none of it will matter much as long as you can drive at 100mph with your hair on fire and not attract the attention of the MPD or any of the other myriad law enforcement agencies that populate the streets of DC. Suspending licenses in particular is meaningless if MPD is being discouraged from making traffic stops. Henderson is quoted in the article as saying that traffic enforcement is moving away from that. Does she envisage an automatic way of checking whether licenses of drivers are valid? I really don’t get it at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Proposing booting cars with speeding tickets.
Isn't this sort of double jeopardy? Paid your fine but still face extra sanctions?
I could see someone deciding not to pay speeding tickets if they're still at risk for being towed.
IMO it would make more sense for owners of vehicles with multiple tickets to be required to go to traffic school or some such. Or maybe escalating tickets
Many of DC's speed zones are also unreasonable, IMO, or not clearly marked
I got a ticket for traveling at 37 in a 25mph zone, but the speed limit sign was covered by trees

That's not at all what double jeopardy is. And by the way, the "speed limit sign was covered by trees" argument doesn't play well, I get it if it's a stop sign, but speed limit signs are posted multiple times and are available on maps. Just because you didn't look at one of the probably multiple signs doesn't excuse your speed. And if you really thought it did, you could have fought the ticket.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Proposing booting cars with speeding tickets.
Isn't this sort of double jeopardy? Paid your fine but still face extra sanctions?
I could see someone deciding not to pay speeding tickets if they're still at risk for being towed.
IMO it would make more sense for owners of vehicles with multiple tickets to be required to go to traffic school or some such. Or maybe escalating tickets
Many of DC's speed zones are also unreasonable, IMO, or not clearly marked
I got a ticket for traveling at 37 in a 25mph zone, but the speed limit sign was covered by trees

No. It's not a system whereby people get to drive at dangerous speeds if they pay the fines. It's a system that's supposed to stop people from driving at dangerous speeds. If your car keeps getting speeding tickets, you're a dangerous driver, and we'll all be safer if you're off the streets.

The default speed limit on DC streets is 25. You should be driving no faster than 25 unless you see a sign that says you're allowed to drive faster. Don't blame your dangerous driving on trees.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Proposing booting cars with speeding tickets.
Isn't this sort of double jeopardy? Paid your fine but still face extra sanctions?
I could see someone deciding not to pay speeding tickets if they're still at risk for being towed.
IMO it would make more sense for owners of vehicles with multiple tickets to be required to go to traffic school or some such. Or maybe escalating tickets
Many of DC's speed zones are also unreasonable, IMO, or not clearly marked
I got a ticket for traveling at 37 in a 25mph zone, but the speed limit sign was covered by trees

That's not at all what double jeopardy is. And by the way, the "speed limit sign was covered by trees" argument doesn't play well, I get it if it's a stop sign, but speed limit signs are posted multiple times and are available on maps. Just because you didn't look at one of the probably multiple signs doesn't excuse your speed. And if you really thought it did, you could have fought the ticket.

Hmmmm: https://wtop.com/dc/2022/12/md-man-fought-his-100-dc-speeding-ticket-now-its-easier-for-others-to-challenge-theirs/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC should offer a discount on registration for low-income and offer to pay some of the insurance for them if they have no unpaid tickets. Give a 3-month grace period for people to come current, then impound the hell out of cars with fake/illegal tags (there's a guy who parks in my neighborhood with virginia "farm use" tags) and ones with unpaid tickets.

The folks who say "well you're just as bad a driver if you get a lot of tickets and pay them"--show me that there is any car that gets at least 10 tickets a year and is not currently tow-eligible and then we can talk about that. I am not sure there really are people who get that many tickets and pay them. If there are, there could be different solutions depending on who they are--like are they a home health aide or construction worker or delivery person who can't find legal parking? Are they someone who speeds and runs red lights every day? The deterrents would be different for each. But we don't have to think much about the deterrents unless these cars actually exist. If they don't, and the worst drivers are in fact the ones with lots of unpaid tickets, increasing towing is a good solution. And hiring more tow crews is a good way to increase employment in DC.

I think it's highly likely that there are drivers who regularly receive speed camera tickets and pay them. I know several people who got multiple tickets from the same camera (not in DC), because they said they kept forgetting...

I think this would be very interesting data to make public. I could imagine a group of people who pay off 3-5 speeding tickets a year. Maybe even 10. But there's a car in my neighborhood right now with over 30 unpaid tickets. Are there people paying 30 tickets a year, or are the people who rack up 30 tickets the people who don't care because they're never going to pay them? The public, and the Council, don't really know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Proposing booting cars with speeding tickets.
Isn't this sort of double jeopardy? Paid your fine but still face extra sanctions?
I could see someone deciding not to pay speeding tickets if they're still at risk for being towed.
IMO it would make more sense for owners of vehicles with multiple tickets to be required to go to traffic school or some such. Or maybe escalating tickets
Many of DC's speed zones are also unreasonable, IMO, or not clearly marked
I got a ticket for traveling at 37 in a 25mph zone, but the speed limit sign was covered by trees

That's not at all what double jeopardy is. And by the way, the "speed limit sign was covered by trees" argument doesn't play well, I get it if it's a stop sign, but speed limit signs are posted multiple times and are available on maps. Just because you didn't look at one of the probably multiple signs doesn't excuse your speed. And if you really thought it did, you could have fought the ticket.

Hmmmm: https://wtop.com/dc/2022/12/md-man-fought-his-100-dc-speeding-ticket-now-its-easier-for-others-to-challenge-theirs/

What a dogshit ruling. Really? There are like a handful of roads in all of DC that have signed speed limits above 25 mph. If you turn on a road and the speed limit sign was before the turn and you drive 40 mph down the road and turn again before the next speed limit sign, did you not break the law? Dogshit!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they should prioritize booting cars with unpaid tickets? Seems like that can keep them busy for years based on recent news reports.

Those people aren't going to follow the rules anyway. If they don't pay their tickers, they are just going to cut off the boot.

So DC shouldn't bother with booting, they should just impound the car and not give it back?

That would keep these people from earning a living and would inequitable since these people don't have WFH jobs. So, no. The people that should be penalized are those thaf follow the rules. Otherwise, enforcement is too expensive.

You are assuming all speeders are poor?

Speeding tickets are a flat tax, and therefore inequitable.

No they vary based on speed over limit $100-$500.

But not based on income and there is a flat processing fee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe DC is starting to take it seriously.

https://dcist.com/story/23/07/10/series-of-d-c-council-bills-aim-to-get-dangerous-drivers-off-the-roads-faster/

This is the turning point where privileged white councilmembers like Charles Allen take the mask off. He is proposing taking away people’s cars, in a city where this will disproportionately affect poor black people, without trial in the name of equity for going 1-10 miles above the speed limit for more than 8 times in a couple of months?!!! So if someone drives 23 mph on a 20 mph street and gets caught 8 times you’re going to steal their car?!!! You cannot make this up.

I guess stealing people’s cars without trial is okay but letting criminals out without bond to commit more crimes, against mostly working class black people, is okay? Yeah…okay.

These haughty, unseasoned bike lane advocates are revealing their true selves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe DC is starting to take it seriously.

https://dcist.com/story/23/07/10/series-of-d-c-council-bills-aim-to-get-dangerous-drivers-off-the-roads-faster/

This is the turning point where privileged white councilmembers like Charles Allen take the mask off. He is proposing taking away people’s cars, in a city where this will disproportionately affect poor black people, without trial in the name of equity for going 1-10 miles above the speed limit for more than 8 times in a couple of months?!!! So if someone drives 23 mph on a 20 mph street and gets caught 8 times you’re going to steal their car?!!! You cannot make this up.

I guess stealing people’s cars without trial is okay but letting criminals out without bond to commit more crimes, against mostly working class black people, is okay? Yeah…okay.

These haughty, unseasoned bike lane advocates are revealing their true selves.

So nice to see you again, everything-is-racism troll.

That's not the everything-is-racism troll, that's the everything-is-about-the-evils-of-bike-lanes word-salad troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe DC is starting to take it seriously.

https://dcist.com/story/23/07/10/series-of-d-c-council-bills-aim-to-get-dangerous-drivers-off-the-roads-faster/

This is the turning point where privileged white councilmembers like Charles Allen take the mask off. He is proposing taking away people’s cars, in a city where this will disproportionately affect poor black people, without trial in the name of equity for going 1-10 miles above the speed limit for more than 8 times in a couple of months?!!! So if someone drives 23 mph on a 20 mph street and gets caught 8 times you’re going to steal their car?!!! You cannot make this up.

I guess stealing people’s cars without trial is okay but letting criminals out without bond to commit more crimes, against mostly working class black people, is okay? Yeah…okay.

These haughty, unseasoned bike lane advocates are revealing their true selves.

Traffic violence disproportionately affects poor black people. It would be racist not to do anything about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe DC is starting to take it seriously.

https://dcist.com/story/23/07/10/series-of-d-c-council-bills-aim-to-get-dangerous-drivers-off-the-roads-faster/

This is the turning point where privileged white councilmembers like Charles Allen take the mask off. He is proposing taking away people’s cars, in a city where this will disproportionately affect poor black people, without trial in the name of equity for going 1-10 miles above the speed limit for more than 8 times in a couple of months?!!! So if someone drives 23 mph on a 20 mph street and gets caught 8 times you’re going to steal their car?!!! You cannot make this up.

I guess stealing people’s cars without trial is okay but letting criminals out without bond to commit more crimes, against mostly working class black people, is okay? Yeah…okay.

These haughty, unseasoned bike lane advocates are revealing their true selves.

So nice to see you again, everything-is-racism troll.

That's not the everything-is-racism troll, that's the everything-is-about-the-evils-of-bike-lanes word-salad troll.

Same troll, multiple pathologies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Proposing booting cars with speeding tickets.
Isn't this sort of double jeopardy? Paid your fine but still face extra sanctions?
I could see someone deciding not to pay speeding tickets if they're still at risk for being towed.
IMO it would make more sense for owners of vehicles with multiple tickets to be required to go to traffic school or some such. Or maybe escalating tickets
Many of DC's speed zones are also unreasonable, IMO, or not clearly marked
I got a ticket for traveling at 37 in a 25mph zone, but the speed limit sign was covered by trees

That's not at all what double jeopardy is. And by the way, the "speed limit sign was covered by trees" argument doesn't play well, I get it if it's a stop sign, but speed limit signs are posted multiple times and are available on maps. Just because you didn't look at one of the probably multiple signs doesn't excuse your speed. And if you really thought it did, you could have fought the ticket.

Hmmmm: https://wtop.com/dc/2022/12/md-man-fought-his-100-dc-speeding-ticket-now-its-easier-for-others-to-challenge-theirs/

What a dogshit ruling. Really? There are like a handful of roads in all of DC that have signed speed limits above 25 mph. If you turn on a road and the speed limit sign was before the turn and you drive 40 mph down the road and turn again before the next speed limit sign, did you not break the law? Dogshit!

"My only interest here is in fairness" says the person who was driving at a dangerous speed that exceeded the speed limit by 44%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe DC is starting to take it seriously.

https://dcist.com/story/23/07/10/series-of-d-c-council-bills-aim-to-get-dangerous-drivers-off-the-roads-faster/

This is the turning point where privileged white councilmembers like Charles Allen take the mask off. He is proposing taking away people’s cars, in a city where this will disproportionately affect poor black people, without trial in the name of equity for going 1-10 miles above the speed limit for more than 8 times in a couple of months?!!! So if someone drives 23 mph on a 20 mph street and gets caught 8 times you’re going to steal their car?!!! You cannot make this up.

I guess stealing people’s cars without trial is okay but letting criminals out without bond to commit more crimes, against mostly working class black people, is okay? Yeah…okay.

These haughty, unseasoned bike lane advocates are revealing their true selves.

So nice to see you again, everything-is-racism troll.

That's not the everything-is-racism troll, that's the everything-is-about-the-evils-of-bike-lanes word-salad troll.

Bike lanes aren’t evil, but the closeted racist bike zealots are. Trying to drive black people out of the city by impounding their cars for driving 24 mph and putting up bike lanes in front of historic black churches to make it more difficult for black elders to park in front of their places of worship is a a very slick slight of hand. But we see through it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Proposing booting cars with speeding tickets.
Isn't this sort of double jeopardy? Paid your fine but still face extra sanctions?
I could see someone deciding not to pay speeding tickets if they're still at risk for being towed.
IMO it would make more sense for owners of vehicles with multiple tickets to be required to go to traffic school or some such. Or maybe escalating tickets
Many of DC's speed zones are also unreasonable, IMO, or not clearly marked
I got a ticket for traveling at 37 in a 25mph zone, but the speed limit sign was covered by trees

That's not at all what double jeopardy is. And by the way, the "speed limit sign was covered by trees" argument doesn't play well, I get it if it's a stop sign, but speed limit signs are posted multiple times and are available on maps. Just because you didn't look at one of the probably multiple signs doesn't excuse your speed. And if you really thought it did, you could have fought the ticket.

Hmmmm: https://wtop.com/dc/2022/12/md-man-fought-his-100-dc-speeding-ticket-now-its-easier-for-others-to-challenge-theirs/

What a dogshit ruling. Really? There are like a handful of roads in all of DC that have signed speed limits above 25 mph. If you turn on a road and the speed limit sign was before the turn and you drive 40 mph down the road and turn again before the next speed limit sign, did you not break the law? Dogshit!

The ruling is not worth appealing. The most logical response to this would be for DDOT to set the speed limit on every road under their jurisdiction to 20mph. This may inconvenience a few lead-footed drivers but will resolve any semblance of confusion while saving lives and encouraging commuters to adopt more environmentally-friendly modes of transport.