Does FCPS teach any grammar

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Catholic schools can have many faults, but my kid had no issues with grammar when they switched to FCPS for high school. They were surprised the other students were struggling in English Honors. My kid is no whiz, fwiw.

Right, because presumably Catholic school used a more traditional curriculum that actually explicitly taught grammar and reading vs the workshop model public schools have been using now for 15 years. Grammar isn’t actually hard, you don’t have to be a whiz to get it - I tell my students if you like math, you should like grammar, because it’s rule based and simple to follow when you know the rules. But kids who don’t receive explicit instruction in reading and grammar struggle with it when we HAVE to teach it in high school because the 11th grade writing SOL is very, very grammar based. I mean my students cannot tell the difference between a complete sentence and a fragment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not really.

The 9th grade teacher tried desperately to catch the kids up this year. Bless her. But she never should have had to do that in a high school honors class.

The class of 2026 kids are so behind on so many basic things that were never a concern for my older kkds, even the one just a couple years older.

The kids who lost the end of 6th grade and mkst of middle school over pandemic are so screwed by the shut down.

I suspect that cluster of grades, plus the kids who did K-2nd grade over pandemkc are going to have lifelong impacts due to the idiotic pandemic school decisions, school closures, lowering of standards, and over reliance on screens to teach.

Those specific grades were at critical learning and transition stages that you cannot get back.

How was it most of middle school? It was 75% of one year, so closer to 38%.

What? They lost a third of the school year with school closing in March, and the whole next school year was almost entirely online, and not real school at all when they finally returned, barely. And there has been an insane increase in use of 'screens' during the school day post-covid.

Why did they not receive real school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are working on a summer bridge activities workbook this summer for my rising 5th grader and my kid knows nothing about grammar (doesn’t know pronouns, where commas go, etc) in any of the activities. I’m assuming it’s normally taught in other elementary schools since it’s included int he workbook?

How do kids learn grammar? And how will they learn foreign languages when they don’t know any grammar. I’m trying to teach the kid as we go through the workbook but curious what is going on.

In our experience, not really. Not in any meaningful way. There may be a passing quiz or worksheet on something (e.g., comma usage) but not a thorough grammar curriculum. I asked my kid once, in MS, if they could describe what an adjective was. This kid is an honors and AP student. They could not tell me or describe what an adjective was.

Add on that, the teachers do not provide line edit reviews to correct grammar on written work. A huge problem for me as that is one of the best ways to learn. Instead they use those foolish "rubrics." I know there is a lot of arguments on this point on this site. But without this sort of feedback you simply cannot properly teach grammar and writing. And it's just not done in FCPS.

I disagree. I have asked both my kids every day after school what they have learned in each class and they have walked me through it. (I do this to help solidify their learning and to give me insight on what they are doing in school). Line edits are not the only ways to learn to write--they have also sorts of targeted interactive worksheets where they correct incorrect grammar in pre-written sentences and circle parts of speech and the like. I think the "No red ink" program is a reasonably strong way to teach grammar/writing that varies from the traditional line editing practice (which is not possible to do well given the class sizes/teacher workload). And, really, as computer programs improve, using word processers are increasingly becoming like having a constant line editor.
Writing is a significant portion of my professional work and I think it's being taught reasonably well. Sure, I'd love to have my kids receive detailed feedback on all their written work, but I don't think the FCPS approach is foolish.

You can disagree with your kids' experience but have no basis to disagree with mine.
As for approach, we will have to agree to disagree. I think their approach is not effective at all.

[Anonymous]

FCPS parents you should of sent you’re student to a Catholic school if you wanted them to learn grammar and spelling and even hand writing but go ahead and say that all of these are not important any more. I work in FCPS and love writing notes in my perfect cursive and feeling like I am writing in a secret code because the students can’t read it

When honor role students can’t conjugate verbs and ask you where you are at and mispel words and has no experience writing in narrative form forget extensive research papers what can you expect than?

[Anonymous]

I graduated from FCPS over 35 years ago. I’m a relic of the past.

I recall spelling tests and school-wide spelling bees, graded handwriting homework, required daily journals (kept them all, by the way) from sixth grade through to some high school electives, research papers and extensive expository writing, literary criticism, vocabulary lessons, required reading lists and even diagramming sentences in seventh grade.

I was so inspired and encouraged by my FCPS English and Language Arts instruction that I became an English major. I was well-prepared for the rigors of college and tutored classmates
freshman year who had never written a research paper.

I can attest that my own FCPS DC simply have not had the same experiences. FCPS has lowered expectations, reduced rigor and inflated grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCPS parents you should of sent you’re student to a Catholic school if you wanted them to learn grammar and spelling and even hand writing but go ahead and say that all of these are not important any more. I work in FCPS and love writing notes in my perfect cursive and feeling like I am writing in a secret code because the students can’t read it

When honor role students can’t conjugate verbs and ask you where you are at and mispel words and has no experience writing in narrative form forget extensive research papers what can you expect than?

This is satire, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS parents you should of sent you’re student to a Catholic school if you wanted them to learn grammar and spelling and even hand writing but go ahead and say that all of these are not important any more. I work in FCPS and love writing notes in my perfect cursive and feeling like I am writing in a secret code because the students can’t read it

When honor role students can’t conjugate verbs and ask you where you are at and mispel words and has no experience writing in narrative form forget extensive research papers what can you expect than?

This is satire, right?

Given the numerous grammatical errors, I believe so PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are working on a summer bridge activities workbook this summer for my rising 5th grader and my kid knows nothing about grammar (doesn’t know pronouns, where commas go, etc) in any of the activities. I’m assuming it’s normally taught in other elementary schools since it’s included int he workbook?

How do kids learn grammar? And how will they learn foreign languages when they don’t know any grammar. I’m trying to teach the kid as we go through the workbook but curious what is going on.

In our experience, not really. Not in any meaningful way. There may be a passing quiz or worksheet on something (e.g., comma usage) but not a thorough grammar curriculum. I asked my kid once, in MS, if they could describe what an adjective was. This kid is an honors and AP student. They could not tell me or describe what an adjective was.

Add on that, the teachers do not provide line edit reviews to correct grammar on written work. A huge problem for me as that is one of the best ways to learn. Instead they use those foolish "rubrics." I know there is a lot of arguments on this point on this site. But without this sort of feedback you simply cannot properly teach grammar and writing. And it's just not done in FCPS.

I disagree. I have asked both my kids every day after school what they have learned in each class and they have walked me through it. (I do this to help solidify their learning and to give me insight on what they are doing in school). Line edits are not the only ways to learn to write--they have also sorts of targeted interactive worksheets where they correct incorrect grammar in pre-written sentences and circle parts of speech and the like. I think the "No red ink" program is a reasonably strong way to teach grammar/writing that varies from the traditional line editing practice (which is not possible to do well given the class sizes/teacher workload). And, really, as computer programs improve, using word processers are increasingly becoming like having a constant line editor.
Writing is a significant portion of my professional work and I think it's being taught reasonably well. Sure, I'd love to have my kids receive detailed feedback on all their written work, but I don't think the FCPS approach is foolish.

You can disagree with your kids' experience but have no basis to disagree with mine.
As for approach, we will have to agree to disagree. I think their approach is not effective at all.

Have you looked at NoRedInk which is what FCPS uses (or at least teachers) for writing support in MS (and some in upper ES)? It's a writing tool where teachers provide lots of modelling, feedback and editing--and then they discuss it in their writing conferences. You can look at it on line and assess it yourself if you haven't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not really.

The 9th grade teacher tried desperately to catch the kids up this year. Bless her. But she never should have had to do that in a high school honors class.

The class of 2026 kids are so behind on so many basic things that were never a concern for my older kkds, even the one just a couple years older.

The kids who lost the end of 6th grade and mkst of middle school over pandemic are so screwed by the shut down.

I suspect that cluster of grades, plus the kids who did K-2nd grade over pandemkc are going to have lifelong impacts due to the idiotic pandemic school decisions, school closures, lowering of standards, and over reliance on screens to teach.

Those specific grades were at critical learning and transition stages that you cannot get back.

Teacher here . I know closures are the easy target but they were 3 years ago. It doesn’t explain the YEARS of declining grammar skills I’ve seen in students, which was happening pre-pandemic. It comes down to the curriculum provided and how FCPS was teaching reading and writing (Calkins model). It’s much, much bigger and going on longer than the brief time schools closed.

I agree. But there are a bunch of parents on this board who just cannot move on from pandemic shutdowns. Instead of figuring out how we can fill gaps and build learning, they just incessantly whine and cry about things that occurred three years ago, stomping their feet and harping on things that cannot be changed. We don't have time machines that allow us to go back in time, so there is no benefit in discussing what happened in 2020-2021, but these posters just incessantly repeat the same tired argument over and over and over again. It is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Maybe it has changed, but my rising 9th graders were in FCPS AAP through 5th grade and did not learn grammar or punctuation in any sort of explicit way. Yes, sometimes it was sort of embedded in their writing lessons, but never really taught. They were way behind in when we switched schools during COVID.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not really.

The 9th grade teacher tried desperately to catch the kids up this year. Bless her. But she never should have had to do that in a high school honors class.

The class of 2026 kids are so behind on so many basic things that were never a concern for my older kkds, even the one just a couple years older.

The kids who lost the end of 6th grade and mkst of middle school over pandemic are so screwed by the shut down.

I suspect that cluster of grades, plus the kids who did K-2nd grade over pandemkc are going to have lifelong impacts due to the idiotic pandemic school decisions, school closures, lowering of standards, and over reliance on screens to teach.

Those specific grades were at critical learning and transition stages that you cannot get back.

Teacher here . I know closures are the easy target but they were 3 years ago. It doesn’t explain the YEARS of declining grammar skills I’ve seen in students, which was happening pre-pandemic. It comes down to the curriculum provided and how FCPS was teaching reading and writing (Calkins model). It’s much, much bigger and going on longer than the brief time schools closed.

I agree. But there are a bunch of parents on this board who just cannot move on from pandemic shutdowns. Instead of figuring out how we can fill gaps and build learning, they just incessantly whine and cry about things that occurred three years ago, stomping their feet and harping on things that cannot be changed. We don't have time machines that allow us to go back in time, so there is no benefit in discussing what happened in 2020-2021, but these posters just incessantly repeat the same tired argument over and over and over again. It is ridiculous.

I started the progressives ruined schools more than the pandemic thread and it shows to me that it doesn't matter what people point out as the problem. Some people in the school system will try to find the loosest way of teaching, no matter what the results, till they are told they have to switch to something more structured.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are working on a summer bridge activities workbook this summer for my rising 5th grader and my kid knows nothing about grammar (doesn’t know pronouns, where commas go, etc) in any of the activities. I’m assuming it’s normally taught in other elementary schools since it’s included int he workbook?

How do kids learn grammar? And how will they learn foreign languages when they don’t know any grammar. I’m trying to teach the kid as we go through the workbook but curious what is going on.

In our experience, not really. Not in any meaningful way. There may be a passing quiz or worksheet on something (e.g., comma usage) but not a thorough grammar curriculum. I asked my kid once, in MS, if they could describe what an adjective was. This kid is an honors and AP student. They could not tell me or describe what an adjective was.

Add on that, the teachers do not provide line edit reviews to correct grammar on written work. A huge problem for me as that is one of the best ways to learn. Instead they use those foolish "rubrics." I know there is a lot of arguments on this point on this site. But without this sort of feedback you simply cannot properly teach grammar and writing. And it's just not done in FCPS.

I disagree. I have asked both my kids every day after school what they have learned in each class and they have walked me through it. (I do this to help solidify their learning and to give me insight on what they are doing in school). Line edits are not the only ways to learn to write--they have also sorts of targeted interactive worksheets where they correct incorrect grammar in pre-written sentences and circle parts of speech and the like. I think the "No red ink" program is a reasonably strong way to teach grammar/writing that varies from the traditional line editing practice (which is not possible to do well given the class sizes/teacher workload). And, really, as computer programs improve, using word processers are increasingly becoming like having a constant line editor.
Writing is a significant portion of my professional work and I think it's being taught reasonably well. Sure, I'd love to have my kids receive detailed feedback on all their written work, but I don't think the FCPS approach is foolish.

You can disagree with your kids' experience but have no basis to disagree with mine.
As for approach, we will have to agree to disagree. I think their approach is not effective at all.

Have you looked at NoRedInk which is what FCPS uses (or at least teachers) for writing support in MS (and some in upper ES)? It's a writing tool where teachers provide lots of modelling, feedback and editing--and then they discuss it in their writing conferences. You can look at it on line and assess it yourself if you haven't.

Oh boy. I’m the teacher who has been posting in this thread about terrible grammar instruction and NoRedInk is a HUGE part of why. I refuse to use it. It does NOT teach students effectively.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are working on a summer bridge activities workbook this summer for my rising 5th grader and my kid knows nothing about grammar (doesn’t know pronouns, where commas go, etc) in any of the activities. I’m assuming it’s normally taught in other elementary schools since it’s included int he workbook?

How do kids learn grammar? And how will they learn foreign languages when they don’t know any grammar. I’m trying to teach the kid as we go through the workbook but curious what is going on.

In our experience, not really. Not in any meaningful way. There may be a passing quiz or worksheet on something (e.g., comma usage) but not a thorough grammar curriculum. I asked my kid once, in MS, if they could describe what an adjective was. This kid is an honors and AP student. They could not tell me or describe what an adjective was.

Add on that, the teachers do not provide line edit reviews to correct grammar on written work. A huge problem for me as that is one of the best ways to learn. Instead they use those foolish "rubrics." I know there is a lot of arguments on this point on this site. But without this sort of feedback you simply cannot properly teach grammar and writing. And it's just not done in FCPS.

I disagree. I have asked both my kids every day after school what they have learned in each class and they have walked me through it. (I do this to help solidify their learning and to give me insight on what they are doing in school). Line edits are not the only ways to learn to write--they have also sorts of targeted interactive worksheets where they correct incorrect grammar in pre-written sentences and circle parts of speech and the like. I think the "No red ink" program is a reasonably strong way to teach grammar/writing that varies from the traditional line editing practice (which is not possible to do well given the class sizes/teacher workload). And, really, as computer programs improve, using word processers are increasingly becoming like having a constant line editor.
Writing is a significant portion of my professional work and I think it's being taught reasonably well. Sure, I'd love to have my kids receive detailed feedback on all their written work, but I don't think the FCPS approach is foolish.

You can disagree with your kids' experience but have no basis to disagree with mine.
As for approach, we will have to agree to disagree. I think their approach is not effective at all.

Have you looked at NoRedInk which is what FCPS uses (or at least teachers) for writing support in MS (and some in upper ES)? It's a writing tool where teachers provide lots of modelling, feedback and editing--and then they discuss it in their writing conferences. You can look at it on line and assess it yourself if you haven't.

Oh boy. I’m the teacher who has been posting in this thread about terrible grammar instruction and NoRedInk is a HUGE part of why. I refuse to use it. It does NOT teach students effectively.

To be more clear- I teach high school English. NoRedInk does not work as a writing curriculum. It’s confusing and shows kids BAD grammar to correct rather than teaching them how GOOD grammar works. I teach grammar explicitly and don’t use NoRedInk. I teach my own children grammar separately at home because I know how much NRI is relied upon in the curriculum. It just isn’t effective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are working on a summer bridge activities workbook this summer for my rising 5th grader and my kid knows nothing about grammar (doesn’t know pronouns, where commas go, etc) in any of the activities. I’m assuming it’s normally taught in other elementary schools since it’s included int he workbook?

How do kids learn grammar? And how will they learn foreign languages when they don’t know any grammar. I’m trying to teach the kid as we go through the workbook but curious what is going on.

In our experience, not really. Not in any meaningful way. There may be a passing quiz or worksheet on something (e.g., comma usage) but not a thorough grammar curriculum. I asked my kid once, in MS, if they could describe what an adjective was. This kid is an honors and AP student. They could not tell me or describe what an adjective was.

Add on that, the teachers do not provide line edit reviews to correct grammar on written work. A huge problem for me as that is one of the best ways to learn. Instead they use those foolish "rubrics." I know there is a lot of arguments on this point on this site. But without this sort of feedback you simply cannot properly teach grammar and writing. And it's just not done in FCPS.

I disagree. I have asked both my kids every day after school what they have learned in each class and they have walked me through it. (I do this to help solidify their learning and to give me insight on what they are doing in school). Line edits are not the only ways to learn to write--they have also sorts of targeted interactive worksheets where they correct incorrect grammar in pre-written sentences and circle parts of speech and the like. I think the "No red ink" program is a reasonably strong way to teach grammar/writing that varies from the traditional line editing practice (which is not possible to do well given the class sizes/teacher workload). And, really, as computer programs improve, using word processers are increasingly becoming like having a constant line editor.
Writing is a significant portion of my professional work and I think it's being taught reasonably well. Sure, I'd love to have my kids receive detailed feedback on all their written work, but I don't think the FCPS approach is foolish.

You can disagree with your kids' experience but have no basis to disagree with mine.
As for approach, we will have to agree to disagree. I think their approach is not effective at all.

Have you looked at NoRedInk which is what FCPS uses (or at least teachers) for writing support in MS (and some in upper ES)? It's a writing tool where teachers provide lots of modelling, feedback and editing--and then they discuss it in their writing conferences. You can look at it on line and assess it yourself if you haven't.

Oh boy. I’m the teacher who has been posting in this thread about terrible grammar instruction and NoRedInk is a HUGE part of why. I refuse to use it. It does NOT teach students effectively.

To be more clear- I teach high school English. NoRedInk does not work as a writing curriculum. It’s confusing and shows kids BAD grammar to correct rather than teaching them how GOOD grammar works. I teach grammar explicitly and don’t use NoRedInk. I teach my own children grammar separately at home because I know how much NRI is relied upon in the curriculum. It just isn’t effective.

So what do you use? My kids are in AAP and I really wish there was more emphasis on writing. It’s a little better in MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are working on a summer bridge activities workbook this summer for my rising 5th grader and my kid knows nothing about grammar (doesn’t know pronouns, where commas go, etc) in any of the activities. I’m assuming it’s normally taught in other elementary schools since it’s included int he workbook?

How do kids learn grammar? And how will they learn foreign languages when they don’t know any grammar. I’m trying to teach the kid as we go through the workbook but curious what is going on.

In our experience, not really. Not in any meaningful way. There may be a passing quiz or worksheet on something (e.g., comma usage) but not a thorough grammar curriculum. I asked my kid once, in MS, if they could describe what an adjective was. This kid is an honors and AP student. They could not tell me or describe what an adjective was.

Add on that, the teachers do not provide line edit reviews to correct grammar on written work. A huge problem for me as that is one of the best ways to learn. Instead they use those foolish "rubrics." I know there is a lot of arguments on this point on this site. But without this sort of feedback you simply cannot properly teach grammar and writing. And it's just not done in FCPS.

I disagree. I have asked both my kids every day after school what they have learned in each class and they have walked me through it. (I do this to help solidify their learning and to give me insight on what they are doing in school). Line edits are not the only ways to learn to write--they have also sorts of targeted interactive worksheets where they correct incorrect grammar in pre-written sentences and circle parts of speech and the like. I think the "No red ink" program is a reasonably strong way to teach grammar/writing that varies from the traditional line editing practice (which is not possible to do well given the class sizes/teacher workload). And, really, as computer programs improve, using word processers are increasingly becoming like having a constant line editor.
Writing is a significant portion of my professional work and I think it's being taught reasonably well. Sure, I'd love to have my kids receive detailed feedback on all their written work, but I don't think the FCPS approach is foolish.

You can disagree with your kids' experience but have no basis to disagree with mine.
As for approach, we will have to agree to disagree. I think their approach is not effective at all.

Have you looked at NoRedInk which is what FCPS uses (or at least teachers) for writing support in MS (and some in upper ES)? It's a writing tool where teachers provide lots of modelling, feedback and editing--and then they discuss it in their writing conferences. You can look at it on line and assess it yourself if you haven't.

Oh boy. I’m the teacher who has been posting in this thread about terrible grammar instruction and NoRedInk is a HUGE part of why. I refuse to use it. It does NOT teach students effectively.

To be more clear- I teach high school English. NoRedInk does not work as a writing curriculum. It’s confusing and shows kids BAD grammar to correct rather than teaching them how GOOD grammar works. I teach grammar explicitly and don’t use NoRedInk. I teach my own children grammar separately at home because I know how much NRI is relied upon in the curriculum. It just isn’t effective.

So what do you use? My kids are in AAP and I really wish there was more emphasis on writing. It’s a little better in MS.

Patterns of Power. It’s a routine created by Jeff Anderson. Works so much better to have the kids understand the why/how of grammar and how it creates order and meaning and gives you power as a writer to make your sentences more clear and interesting.