Does FCPS teach any grammar

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading the various posts here, it does rather seem that different teachers and different schools are handling grammar instruction quite differently. Some apparently are doing ok with grammar, but others apparently are not. Perhaps FCPS is just too large with too many layers of management to have much consistency across such a large county ?

I would say about 70% of teachers have lowered standards since 2010.

I would say about 100% of people who pull statistics out of the air have lowered standards for all time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grammar like math are being short changed in FCPS. Why? Because they differentiate students and FCPS does not want that. They want equitable outcomes. In grammar and math some kids have an inherent advantage such as English being the native language or in math having more exposure outside of what FCPS offers. So it is much harder to have equitable outcomes in these two areas.

LOL. What school is your kid attending? Because equity has zero to do with this.

I think the grammar sucks across the board and grades in FCPS. Ditto the writing curriculum. But kids were "differentiated" in math and "language arts" all the time in our pyramid. And still are in HS. And, where I thought more was needed, I actually parented and provided that to my kid. This is a PUBLIC school system, not an individual development plan. You want more than what's mandated ? Then provide it.

But don't resort to the lame "equity is killing education" BS. I know y'all have that on the GOP Bingo Card lately. But it's tiresome. And stupid. And you look lazy but pulling it out and by, implicitly, acknowledging you do little on your end to help your kid succeed.

Your right grammar sucks across the board, and so does reading and math. FCPS test scores prove it. This is about FCPS not having standards, not teaching to those standards and providing a disciplined environment to allow every FCPS student to the best of their ability.

It is about way too much money being spent on inept middle management staff, the fad of he day program for math and English, and a failure to provide boots on the ground in the classroom to maintain order and discipline. FCPS has more resources than some small countries, they squander and waste what they have and as a result FCPS students do not read at grade level, do math at grade level or have the grammatical skills they need to succeed in life.

So not asking for more than mandated just asking to meet the standard, which FCPS and most public schools in America are simply not doing.

Way too much hyperbole in your post to take it seriously.

FCPS scores are above state and national standards and are above grade level.

This is one of the most educated areas of the country with a very high percentage of parents who attended college and are in highly academic fields. This isn’t saying anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been curious how well students today would do with the SAT from the 1980's. One of the reason these tests don't mean much anymore is that they've also gotten much easier.

That's not accurate.

DP. Yes, it is. Every time they redo the SATs, they're easier.

Please link your sources.

[Anonymous]

Veteran FCPS elementary teacher. I’ve never heard any discussion at school about curriculum like grammar and equity. They took away the textbooks and schools insist that every grade teach in lock-step. If the most powerful people on the third-grade team don’t prioritize grammar, it doesn’t get covered.

If parents want it, they must let the principal know, loud and clear.

I have been saddened over the years when I read curriculum materials put out by the county online that are full of grammar and spelling errors. I have had to stop when showing the class a slide with an error and explain what the mistake is and how it should be corrected.

[Anonymous]

What are you saying? Your first sentence is confusing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grammar like math are being short changed in FCPS. Why? Because they differentiate students and FCPS does not want that. They want equitable outcomes. In grammar and math some kids have an inherent advantage such as English being the native language or in math having more exposure outside of what FCPS offers. So it is much harder to have equitable outcomes in these two areas.

LOL. What school is your kid attending? Because equity has zero to do with this.

I think the grammar sucks across the board and grades in FCPS. Ditto the writing curriculum. But kids were "differentiated" in math and "language arts" all the time in our pyramid. And still are in HS. And, where I thought more was needed, I actually parented and provided that to my kid. This is a PUBLIC school system, not an individual development plan. You want more than what's mandated ? Then provide it.

But don't resort to the lame "equity is killing education" BS. I know y'all have that on the GOP Bingo Card lately. But it's tiresome. And stupid. And you look lazy but pulling it out and by, implicitly, acknowledging you do little on your end to help your kid succeed.

Your right grammar sucks across the board, and so does reading and math. FCPS test scores prove it. This is about FCPS not having standards, not teaching to those standards and providing a disciplined environment to allow every FCPS student to the best of their ability.

It is about way too much money being spent on inept middle management staff, the fad of he day program for math and English, and a failure to provide boots on the ground in the classroom to maintain order and discipline. FCPS has more resources than some small countries, they squander and waste what they have and as a result FCPS students do not read at grade level, do math at grade level or have the grammatical skills they need to succeed in life.

So not asking for more than mandated just asking to meet the standard, which FCPS and most public schools in America are simply not doing.

Way too much hyperbole in your post to take it seriously.

FCPS scores are above state and national standards and are above grade level.

This is one of the most educated areas of the country with a very high percentage of parents who attended college and are in highly academic fields. This isn’t saying anything.

The PP said FCPS kids do not read on grade level or do math on grade level. That is a ludicrous statement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What are you saying? Your first sentence is confusing

That’s because they went to FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What are you saying? Your first sentence is confusing

DP. It's not a confusing sentence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading the various posts here, it does rather seem that different teachers and different schools are handling grammar instruction quite differently. Some apparently are doing ok with grammar, but others apparently are not. Perhaps FCPS is just too large with too many layers of management to have much consistency across such a large county ?

Teachers have a lot of autonomy. We have standards to follow and 90% of the teachers do, but principles (or APs) observe teachers anywhere from 0 to 4 times a year. There are a lot of lessons that teachers could be skipping, or just covering at a very high level.

-ES Teacher with FCPS for 25 years

The irony! It is ‘principal.’

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grammar like math are being short changed in FCPS. Why? Because they differentiate students and FCPS does not want that. They want equitable outcomes. In grammar and math some kids have an inherent advantage such as English being the native language or in math having more exposure outside of what FCPS offers. So it is much harder to have equitable outcomes in these two areas.

LOL. What school is your kid attending? Because equity has zero to do with this.

I think the grammar sucks across the board and grades in FCPS. Ditto the writing curriculum. But kids were "differentiated" in math and "language arts" all the time in our pyramid. And still are in HS. And, where I thought more was needed, I actually parented and provided that to my kid. This is a PUBLIC school system, not an individual development plan. You want more than what's mandated ? Then provide it.

But don't resort to the lame "equity is killing education" BS. I know y'all have that on the GOP Bingo Card lately. But it's tiresome. And stupid. And you look lazy but pulling it out and by, implicitly, acknowledging you do little on your end to help your kid succeed.

Your right grammar sucks across the board, and so does reading and math. FCPS test scores prove it. This is about FCPS not having standards, not teaching to those standards and providing a disciplined environment to allow every FCPS student to the best of their ability.

It is about way too much money being spent on inept middle management staff, the fad of he day program for math and English, and a failure to provide boots on the ground in the classroom to maintain order and discipline. FCPS has more resources than some small countries, they squander and waste what they have and as a result FCPS students do not read at grade level, do math at grade level or have the grammatical skills they need to succeed in life.

So not asking for more than mandated just asking to meet the standard, which FCPS and most public schools in America are simply not doing.

should be: “You’re”, not “Your”
FCPS doesn’t teach contractions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grammar like math are being short changed in FCPS. Why? Because they differentiate students and FCPS does not want that. They want equitable outcomes. In grammar and math some kids have an inherent advantage such as English being the native language or in math having more exposure outside of what FCPS offers. So it is much harder to have equitable outcomes in these two areas.

LOL. What school is your kid attending? Because equity has zero to do with this.

I think the grammar sucks across the board and grades in FCPS. Ditto the writing curriculum. But kids were "differentiated" in math and "language arts" all the time in our pyramid. And still are in HS. And, where I thought more was needed, I actually parented and provided that to my kid. This is a PUBLIC school system, not an individual development plan. You want more than what's mandated ? Then provide it.

But don't resort to the lame "equity is killing education" BS. I know y'all have that on the GOP Bingo Card lately. But it's tiresome. And stupid. And you look lazy but pulling it out and by, implicitly, acknowledging you do little on your end to help your kid succeed.

Your right grammar sucks across the board, and so does reading and math. FCPS test scores prove it. This is about FCPS not having standards, not teaching to those standards and providing a disciplined environment to allow every FCPS student to the best of their ability.

It is about way too much money being spent on inept middle management staff, the fad of he day program for math and English, and a failure to provide boots on the ground in the classroom to maintain order and discipline. FCPS has more resources than some small countries, they squander and waste what they have and as a result FCPS students do not read at grade level, do math at grade level or have the grammatical skills they need to succeed in life.

So not asking for more than mandated just asking to meet the standard, which FCPS and most public schools in America are simply not doing.

should be: “You’re”, not “Your”
FCPS doesn’t teach contractions.

LOL, but it does, in 2nd grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are you saying? Your first sentence is confusing

DP. It's not a confusing sentence.

Why does it matter whether she's heard discussion on grammar or equity at school? What point is she trying to make?

Parents complain about these two topics all the time. Equity too much. Grammar too little. So they are opposites which is why the sentence is confusing. FCPS is aware of the fact that many parents would prefer less equity talk and more grammar talk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grammar like math are being short changed in FCPS. Why? Because they differentiate students and FCPS does not want that. They want equitable outcomes. In grammar and math some kids have an inherent advantage such as English being the native language or in math having more exposure outside of what FCPS offers. So it is much harder to have equitable outcomes in these two areas.

LOL. What school is your kid attending? Because equity has zero to do with this.

I think the grammar sucks across the board and grades in FCPS. Ditto the writing curriculum. But kids were "differentiated" in math and "language arts" all the time in our pyramid. And still are in HS. And, where I thought more was needed, I actually parented and provided that to my kid. This is a PUBLIC school system, not an individual development plan. You want more than what's mandated ? Then provide it.

But don't resort to the lame "equity is killing education" BS. I know y'all have that on the GOP Bingo Card lately. But it's tiresome. And stupid. And you look lazy but pulling it out and by, implicitly, acknowledging you do little on your end to help your kid succeed.

Your right grammar sucks across the board, and so does reading and math. FCPS test scores prove it. This is about FCPS not having standards, not teaching to those standards and providing a disciplined environment to allow every FCPS student to the best of their ability.

It is about way too much money being spent on inept middle management staff, the fad of he day program for math and English, and a failure to provide boots on the ground in the classroom to maintain order and discipline. FCPS has more resources than some small countries, they squander and waste what they have and as a result FCPS students do not read at grade level, do math at grade level or have the grammatical skills they need to succeed in life.

So not asking for more than mandated just asking to meet the standard, which FCPS and most public schools in America are simply not doing.

should be: “You’re”, not “Your”
FCPS doesn’t teach contractions.

Tell me you haven’t been in an ES classroom recently without telling me you haven’t been in an ES classroom recently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are working on a summer bridge activities workbook this summer for my rising 5th grader and my kid knows nothing about grammar (doesn’t know pronouns, where commas go, etc) in any of the activities. I’m assuming it’s normally taught in other elementary schools since it’s included int he workbook?

How do kids learn grammar? And how will they learn foreign languages when they don’t know any grammar. I’m trying to teach the kid as we go through the workbook but curious what is going on.

In our experience, not really. Not in any meaningful way. There may be a passing quiz or worksheet on something (e.g., comma usage) but not a thorough grammar curriculum. I asked my kid once, in MS, if they could describe what an adjective was. This kid is an honors and AP student. They could not tell me or describe what an adjective was.

Add on that, the teachers do not provide line edit reviews to correct grammar on written work. A huge problem for me as that is one of the best ways to learn. Instead they use those foolish "rubrics." I know there is a lot of arguments on this point on this site. But without this sort of feedback you simply cannot properly teach grammar and writing. And it's just not done in FCPS.

I disagree. I have asked both my kids every day after school what they have learned in each class and they have walked me through it. (I do this to help solidify their learning and to give me insight on what they are doing in school). Line edits are not the only ways to learn to write--they have also sorts of targeted interactive worksheets where they correct incorrect grammar in pre-written sentences and circle parts of speech and the like. I think the "No red ink" program is a reasonably strong way to teach grammar/writing that varies from the traditional line editing practice (which is not possible to do well given the class sizes/teacher workload). And, really, as computer programs improve, using word processers are increasingly becoming like having a constant line editor.
Writing is a significant portion of my professional work and I think it's being taught reasonably well. Sure, I'd love to have my kids receive detailed feedback on all their written work, but I don't think the FCPS approach is foolish.

You can disagree with your kids' experience but have no basis to disagree with mine.
As for approach, we will have to agree to disagree. I think their approach is not effective at all.

Have you looked at NoRedInk which is what FCPS uses (or at least teachers) for writing support in MS (and some in upper ES)? It's a writing tool where teachers provide lots of modelling, feedback and editing--and then they discuss it in their writing conferences. You can look at it on line and assess it yourself if you haven't.

Oh boy. I’m the teacher who has been posting in this thread about terrible grammar instruction and NoRedInk is a HUGE part of why. I refuse to use it. It does NOT teach students effectively.

To be more clear- I teach high school English. NoRedInk does not work as a writing curriculum. It’s confusing and shows kids BAD grammar to correct rather than teaching them how GOOD grammar works. I teach grammar explicitly and don’t use NoRedInk. I teach my own children grammar separately at home because I know how much NRI is relied upon in the curriculum. It just isn’t effective.

So what do you use? My kids are in AAP and I really wish there was more emphasis on writing. It’s a little better in MS.

Patterns of Power. It’s a routine created by Jeff Anderson. Works so much better to have the kids understand the why/how of grammar and how it creates order and meaning and gives you power as a writer to make your sentences more clear and interesting.

Have you tried Killgallon sentence composing?

[Anonymous]

Three things learned from this thread:
1. Parents have grammar issues,
2. Teachers have grammar issues,
3. Grammar education is inconsistent and insufficient at FCPS.