Any chance of negotiating fully remote instead of hybrid in this market?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is there anything left in the interview process or are you just awaiting an offer.

If the process is done, wait for an offer and then bring it up. Make it clear this was a very recent change in circumstances that you hadn’t expected, which is why you didn’t mention it before.

If there is still another round of something, I’d probably proactively bring it up. Send an email explaining you’re still very interested in the position, but since you initially applied you had a recent change to your family’s circumstances so that you can no longer move out of state. If it’s a complete dealbreaker then no one wastes anymore time. If they do really like you, then you come off as being forthcoming.

This. I posted earlier that you should go ahead and tell but this is a better, more nuanced answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there anything left in the interview process or are you just awaiting an offer.

If the process is done, wait for an offer and then bring it up. Make it clear this was a very recent change in circumstances that you hadn’t expected, which is why you didn’t mention it before.

If there is still another round of something, I’d probably proactively bring it up. Send an email explaining you’re still very interested in the position, but since you initially applied you had a recent change to your family’s circumstances so that you can no longer move out of state. If it’s a complete dealbreaker then no one wastes anymore time. If they do really like you, then you come off as being forthcoming.

This. I posted earlier that you should go ahead and tell but this is a better, more nuanced answer.

Op here. I love this answer but there truly is nothing left remaining in the process. Also, there’s some aspects to their recruitment process that have made it difficult to know how to handle this. For example, I am not actually sure who the hiring manager is or who I will be reporting to (weird, I know). All my contact has been with an 20something recruiter outside of the actual face to face interviews. Also, those interviews were so formal and so one way (them vetting me as opposed to me vetting them) that I had almost no opportunity to raise my own questions. I feel like aside from the remote work issue, I have other substantive questions I need to get answers to. This has been a very odd recruiting process compared to other jobs I’ve applied to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a hiring manager, I would be completely annoyed if we got to the end and then you asked me.

Yup. At the hybrid place I work fully remote is a no-go, even for someone in a higher level specialized role that we have been courting for months. It would be a complete waste of everyone's time for you to wait until the offer stage to bring this up.

Op here. At the outset, I was open and able to move but the process took so long on the company’s end that things really changed in my circumstances recently.

[Anonymous]

I don’t understand. You are done with interviews but never met with anyone you’d be working with?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand. You are done with interviews but never met with anyone you’d be working with?

Op here. I met the people I’d be reporting to and working with in the Uber formal face to face meetings but have not had any other contact with any of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there anything left in the interview process or are you just awaiting an offer.

If the process is done, wait for an offer and then bring it up. Make it clear this was a very recent change in circumstances that you hadn’t expected, which is why you didn’t mention it before.

If there is still another round of something, I’d probably proactively bring it up. Send an email explaining you’re still very interested in the position, but since you initially applied you had a recent change to your family’s circumstances so that you can no longer move out of state. If it’s a complete dealbreaker then no one wastes anymore time. If they do really like you, then you come off as being forthcoming.

This. I posted earlier that you should go ahead and tell but this is a better, more nuanced answer.

Op here. I love this answer but there truly is nothing left remaining in the process. Also, there’s some aspects to their recruitment process that have made it difficult to know how to handle this. For example, I am not actually sure who the hiring manager is or who I will be reporting to (weird, I know). All my contact has been with an 20something recruiter outside of the actual face to face interviews. Also, those interviews were so formal and so one way (them vetting me as opposed to me vetting them) that I had almost no opportunity to raise my own questions. I feel like aside from the remote work issue, I have other substantive questions I need to get answers to. This has been a very odd recruiting process compared to other jobs I’ve applied to.

NP and if it were me I would e-mail the recruiter and ask if they had a few minutes to talk about the position and then lay out your situation. I think the personal touch of a call vs. an e-mail has the highest chance of showing your sincerity that you were ok with the position as presented but things changed with the passage of time. I guess the risk is that recruiter just e-mails the hiring manager with "candidate wants remote now, k?" but there's no guarantee your nicely worded e-mail would be forwarded along either.

If you get an offer I would ask to speak with whoever you will be reporting to as you have a few questions and then you can see if its a good fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there anything left in the interview process or are you just awaiting an offer.

If the process is done, wait for an offer and then bring it up. Make it clear this was a very recent change in circumstances that you hadn’t expected, which is why you didn’t mention it before.

If there is still another round of something, I’d probably proactively bring it up. Send an email explaining you’re still very interested in the position, but since you initially applied you had a recent change to your family’s circumstances so that you can no longer move out of state. If it’s a complete dealbreaker then no one wastes anymore time. If they do really like you, then you come off as being forthcoming.

This. I posted earlier that you should go ahead and tell but this is a better, more nuanced answer.

Op here. I love this answer but there truly is nothing left remaining in the process. Also, there’s some aspects to their recruitment process that have made it difficult to know how to handle this. For example, I am not actually sure who the hiring manager is or who I will be reporting to (weird, I know). All my contact has been with an 20something recruiter outside of the actual face to face interviews. Also, those interviews were so formal and so one way (them vetting me as opposed to me vetting them) that I had almost no opportunity to raise my own questions. I feel like aside from the remote work issue, I have other substantive questions I need to get answers to. This has been a very odd recruiting process compared to other jobs I’ve applied to.

NP and if it were me I would e-mail the recruiter and ask if they had a few minutes to talk about the position and then lay out your situation. I think the personal touch of a call vs. an e-mail has the highest chance of showing your sincerity that you were ok with the position as presented but things changed with the passage of time. I guess the risk is that recruiter just e-mails the hiring manager with "candidate wants remote now, k?" but there's no guarantee your nicely worded e-mail would be forwarded along either.

If you get an offer I would ask to speak with whoever you will be reporting to as you have a few questions and then you can see if its a good fit.

Op here. Thank you! This is great advice and I’m gonna try to implement it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So they told you the parameters of the job at the beginning and you agreed to them and now you are seeking to significantly alter the terms? You can certainly do this but I would expect them to be irritated with you and go with someone else unless you are the only person that can do what you do.

Op here. At the outset, as in, when I applied for the job back in November 2022, the parameters would have worked. In the subsequent 7 months and after learning more about the role and now that some things have changed with my family, I’ve realized the move won’t work for my family but I’m still interested in the job.

NP here who has been a hiring manager. The professional and respectable thing would be to let the potential employer know when your wife's work situation changed. You inform them at that time that your spouse converted from fully remote to hybrid and you are no longer available to relocate, so you are only available for their position if your position can be fully remote.

But, you didn't do that, you let them continue to waste time interviewing and/or wooing you, potentially excluding other qualified candidates, only to drop the other shoe on them after they make an offer. While this might work as a bargaining chip for some folks who are desperate for a qualified candidate or for positions where you have some very unique and hard to duplicate skills, experience or qualifications, but otherwise, you've taken a very terrible approach. With me and my nationwide corporation, you would be kindly excused from the pool and you would be blacklisted from future consideration for positions. There are enough folks in the talent pool that in the vast majority of cases, we don't need to consider candidates like you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So they told you the parameters of the job at the beginning and you agreed to them and now you are seeking to significantly alter the terms? You can certainly do this but I would expect them to be irritated with you and go with someone else unless you are the only person that can do what you do.

Op here. At the outset, as in, when I applied for the job back in November 2022, the parameters would have worked. In the subsequent 7 months and after learning more about the role and now that some things have changed with my family, I’ve realized the move won’t work for my family but I’m still interested in the job.

NP here who has been a hiring manager. The professional and respectable thing would be to let the potential employer know when your wife's work situation changed. You inform them at that time that your spouse converted from fully remote to hybrid and you are no longer available to relocate, so you are only available for their position if your position can be fully remote.

But, you didn't do that, you let them continue to waste time interviewing and/or wooing you, potentially excluding other qualified candidates, only to drop the other shoe on them after they make an offer. While this might work as a bargaining chip for some folks who are desperate for a qualified candidate or for positions where you have some very unique and hard to duplicate skills, experience or qualifications, but otherwise, you've taken a very terrible approach. With me and my nationwide corporation, you would be kindly excused from the pool and you would be blacklisted from future consideration for positions. There are enough folks in the talent pool that in the vast majority of cases, we don't need to consider candidates like you.

Op here. You invented a lot of that context and that’s not how it unfolded. The job change for DW came only after the final interview-in fact, it came up only in the last week. My last interview with the company was at the end of March.

Regardless, interviews are interviews. I don’t really understand the bitterness. I could decline the offer for any of a thousand reasons. Interviewing takes up my time as well-I didn’t go into it with bad intentions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is there anything left in the interview process or are you just awaiting an offer.

If the process is done, wait for an offer and then bring it up. Make it clear this was a very recent change in circumstances that you hadn’t expected, which is why you didn’t mention it before.

If there is still another round of something, I’d probably proactively bring it up. Send an email explaining you’re still very interested in the position, but since you initially applied you had a recent change to your family’s circumstances so that you can no longer move out of state. If it’s a complete dealbreaker then no one wastes anymore time. If they do really like you, then you come off as being forthcoming.

I agree with this. And, as a hiring manager, if we really wanted you and there was a precedent already at our company of fully remote workers, I’d likely make it work. This isn’t theoretical for me; I’ve hired two people for fairly big roles in the past year. Our team is hybrid but both of these hires are fully remote.

A lot of the people above don’t sound like they’re in touch with the realities of the current job market.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a hiring manager, I would be completely annoyed if we got to the end and then you asked me.

Agreed. You would be labeled as a bit of a problem child from the offset. It says something negative about your character to waste people’s time, knowing you’d only accept a remote job but applying and interviewing for hybrid roles.

If you’re going to do that, then you need to make it clear from the very beginning that you only want to move forward in the process if the role can be considered for fully remote.

This is such a weak beta female perspective. Men negotiate all kinds of things at the 11th hour. It’s women who roll over like dogs and take what they are given.

Do better, grow a spine.

OP you absolutely should ask. You don’t owe them anything. You are a desperate so no need to worry about some middle manager being butt hurt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there anything left in the interview process or are you just awaiting an offer.

If the process is done, wait for an offer and then bring it up. Make it clear this was a very recent change in circumstances that you hadn’t expected, which is why you didn’t mention it before.

If there is still another round of something, I’d probably proactively bring it up. Send an email explaining you’re still very interested in the position, but since you initially applied you had a recent change to your family’s circumstances so that you can no longer move out of state. If it’s a complete dealbreaker then no one wastes anymore time. If they do really like you, then you come off as being forthcoming.

I agree with this. And, as a hiring manager, if we really wanted you and there was a precedent already at our company of fully remote workers, I’d likely make it work. This isn’t theoretical for me; I’ve hired two people for fairly big roles in the past year. Our team is hybrid but both of these hires are fully remote.

A lot of the people above don’t sound like they’re in touch with the realities of the current job market.

This. I work for a tech company and we pay very well and have low turn over. They have tried to put recs out there for hybrid and NOBODY is accepting offers. They are about to throw in the towel and allow remote work just to attract talent. It’s actually pretty amusing to watch play out.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Is there anything left in the interview process or are you just awaiting an offer.

If the process is done, wait for an offer and then bring it up. Make it clear this was a very recent change in circumstances that you hadn’t expected, which is why you didn’t mention it before.

If there is still another round of something, I’d probably proactively bring it up. Send an email explaining you’re still very interested in the position, but since you initially applied you had a recent change to your family’s circumstances so that you can no longer move out of state. If it’s a complete dealbreaker then no one wastes anymore time. If they do really like you, then you come off as being forthcoming.[/quote]

I agree with this. And, as a hiring manager, if we really wanted you and there was a precedent already at our company of fully remote workers, I’d likely make it work. This isn’t theoretical for me; I’ve hired two people for fairly big roles in the past year. Our team is hybrid but both of these hires are fully remote.

A lot of the people above don’t sound like they’re in touch with the realities of the current job market. [/quote]

This. I work for a tech company and we pay very well and have low turn over. They have tried to put recs out there for hybrid and NOBODY is accepting offers. They are about to throw in the towel and allow remote work just to attract talent. It’s actually pretty amusing to watch play out. [/quote]

My just below MAANG has been doing this all pandemic. We’ve gotten pretty good hires I would say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there anything left in the interview process or are you just awaiting an offer.

If the process is done, wait for an offer and then bring it up. Make it clear this was a very recent change in circumstances that you hadn’t expected, which is why you didn’t mention it before.

If there is still another round of something, I’d probably proactively bring it up. Send an email explaining you’re still very interested in the position, but since you initially applied you had a recent change to your family’s circumstances so that you can no longer move out of state. If it’s a complete dealbreaker then no one wastes anymore time. If they do really like you, then you come off as being forthcoming.

This. I posted earlier that you should go ahead and tell but this is a better, more nuanced answer.

Op here. I love this answer but there truly is nothing left remaining in the process. Also, there’s some aspects to their recruitment process that have made it difficult to know how to handle this. For example, I am not actually sure who the hiring manager is or who I will be reporting to (weird, I know). All my contact has been with an 20something recruiter outside of the actual face to face interviews. Also, those interviews were so formal and so one way (them vetting me as opposed to me vetting them) that I had almost no opportunity to raise my own questions. I feel like aside from the remote work issue, I have other substantive questions I need to get answers to. This has been a very odd recruiting process compared to other jobs I’ve applied to.

NP and if it were me I would e-mail the recruiter and ask if they had a few minutes to talk about the position and then lay out your situation. I think the personal touch of a call vs. an e-mail has the highest chance of showing your sincerity that you were ok with the position as presented but things changed with the passage of time. I guess the risk is that recruiter just e-mails the hiring manager with "candidate wants remote now, k?" but there's no guarantee your nicely worded e-mail would be forwarded along either.

If you get an offer I would ask to speak with whoever you will be reporting to as you have a few questions and then you can see if its a good fit.

This is a good plan. I recently recruited for a hybrid position where, like OP’s, circumstances of the top candidate changed. Instead of being honest and forthcoming, she strung us along for weeks. We did not hire her and I would have appreciated being able to move on earlier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a hiring manager, I would be completely annoyed if we got to the end and then you asked me.

Op here. More annoyed than if the candidate just withdrew at the very end? Or just declined your offer?

A big part of this is on the company, their process was too long and ultimately isn’t it on them to sell me on the role as much as I’m trying to sell them on myself ?

You should have withdrawn immediately or told them immediately. I think it's dishonest and it absolutely looks dishonest too.