prepping for cogat test .. is it cheating?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the 1970s and 80s, kids were told that they couldn't/shouldn't study for the SAT. That it was a measure of their innate ability.

Look how far we've come.

No one I know has ever been told this. This is a knowledge test. OF COURSE you should prep.

The SAT was created in the 1920s and was a modified version of an Army IQ test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it cheating. No, there’s no penalty if you cheat, except internal, but most ppl who cheat have no moral compass and aren’t phased by doing it.

99% of kids who get into these special programs had some form of test preparation at a minimum they became familiar with the test format and question types

Some will swear they didn't do this, but 99% are lying. Really.

Is this what you tell yourself to feel better about cheating?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The Cogat cannot be "prepared" like the SAT or GRE, in that it's not knowledge-based. It purports to test your innate critical thinking skills, rather like an IQ test. Now of course, critical thinking skills can be honed with practice, but you cannot get significantly better than what your innate intelligence allows. So an intense amount of prep for Cogat isn't going to increase the score in a huge way. It might increase it a little bit, and most importantly, it will reduce any anxiety your child may have, when faced with an unfamiliar test.

So it's perfectly FINE to familiarize your child with the test format, or even to do multiple rounds of prep, because, contrary to what some people believe, there's only so much you can improve. This also means you don't need to overdo the prep.

Agree, this is a test that prepping cannot increase the score significantly. For the people believe this is cheating, have you look at the questions yourself? if you have no clue what the answer is then you have no clue, it's all dependent on your mental capacity... there are no special methods can magically bring you the correct answers to these questions...

Just becoming familiar with a test's format and question types will net a 20%-30% improvement in score. So have to disagree prepping makes a difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it cheating. No, there’s no penalty if you cheat, except internal, but most ppl who cheat have no moral compass and aren’t phased by doing it.

99% of kids who get into these special programs had some form of test preparation at a minimum they became familiar with the test format and question types

Some will swear they didn't do this, but 99% are lying. Really.

Is this what you tell yourself to feel better about cheating?

Every time I drop my kids off at TJ!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the 1970s and 80s, kids were told that they couldn't/shouldn't study for the SAT. That it was a measure of their innate ability.

Look how far we've come.

No one I know has ever been told this. This is a knowledge test. OF COURSE you should prep.

The SAT was created in the 1920s and was a modified version of an Army IQ test.

And today it's nothing like that...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone preps. I wish I had known that when my older child was taking these tests. I was completely clueless about AAP and the difference between AAP and General Ed. I thought it was a truly gifted program and if my child was gifted, she'd be chosen. Little did I know it's just a smart kid+prepped kid class.

it's UMC segregation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are getting a look at the exact test your kid will be taking, then yes, this is cheating.

Or even questions that are very, very similar to the questions on the test.

How would you know if the questions are really similar? Have you seen the test materials and compared them to the prep materials?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the 1970s and 80s, kids were told that they couldn't/shouldn't study for the SAT. That it was a measure of their innate ability.

Look how far we've come.

No one I know has ever been told this. This is a knowledge test. OF COURSE you should prep.

The SAT was created in the 1920s and was a modified version of an Army IQ test.

And today it's nothing like that...

For a long time, the Scholastic Aptitude Test was considered an aptitude test, as a PP noted, until Kaplan showed them otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the 1970s and 80s, kids were told that they couldn't/shouldn't study for the SAT. That it was a measure of their innate ability.

Look how far we've come.

No one I know has ever been told this. This is a knowledge test. OF COURSE you should prep.

The SAT was created in the 1920s and was a modified version of an Army IQ test.

And today it's nothing like that...

For a long time, the Scholastic Aptitude Test was considered an aptitude test, as a PP noted, until Kaplan showed them otherwise.

Since then, they've changed it multiple times and it's very different from the test it used to be. They even changed the name to Scholastic Assessment Test then eventually to just SAT. Just as prepping broke the SAT, prepping is breaking the Cogat and eventually they will do away with it. This hurts gifted URMs who will be undiscovered. But why should families who prep care about other gifted kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the 1970s and 80s, kids were told that they couldn't/shouldn't study for the SAT. That it was a measure of their innate ability.

Look how far we've come.

No one I know has ever been told this. This is a knowledge test. OF COURSE you should prep.

The SAT was created in the 1920s and was a modified version of an Army IQ test.

And today it's nothing like that...

For a long time, the Scholastic Aptitude Test was considered an aptitude test, as a PP noted, until Kaplan showed them otherwise.

Since then, they've changed it multiple times and it's very different from the test it used to be. They even changed the name to Scholastic Assessment Test then eventually to just SAT. Just as prepping broke the SAT, prepping is breaking the Cogat and eventually they will do away with it. This hurts gifted URMs who will be undiscovered. But why should families who prep care about other gifted kids?

Yes, SAT evolved and its preparation materials are now freely available on Khan Academy and other online sources which makes it accessible to all kids, including talented URMs. Transparency and equal access are important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the 1970s and 80s, kids were told that they couldn't/shouldn't study for the SAT. That it was a measure of their innate ability.

Look how far we've come.

No one I know has ever been told this. This is a knowledge test. OF COURSE you should prep.

The SAT was created in the 1920s and was a modified version of an Army IQ test.

And today it's nothing like that...

For a long time, the Scholastic Aptitude Test was considered an aptitude test, as a PP noted, until Kaplan showed them otherwise.

Since then, they've changed it multiple times and it's very different from the test it used to be. They even changed the name to Scholastic Assessment Test then eventually to just SAT. Just as prepping broke the SAT, prepping is breaking the Cogat and eventually they will do away with it. This hurts gifted URMs who will be undiscovered. But why should families who prep care about other gifted kids?

Yes, SAT evolved and its preparation materials are now freely available on Khan Academy and other online sources which makes it accessible to all kids, including talented URMs. Transparency and equal access are important.

Uh, colleges are dropping the SAT entirely. That hurst URMs. You know that, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the 1970s and 80s, kids were told that they couldn't/shouldn't study for the SAT. That it was a measure of their innate ability.

Look how far we've come.

No one I know has ever been told this. This is a knowledge test. OF COURSE you should prep.

The SAT was created in the 1920s and was a modified version of an Army IQ test.

And today it's nothing like that...

For a long time, the Scholastic Aptitude Test was considered an aptitude test, as a PP noted, until Kaplan showed them otherwise.

Since then, they've changed it multiple times and it's very different from the test it used to be. They even changed the name to Scholastic Assessment Test then eventually to just SAT. Just as prepping broke the SAT, prepping is breaking the Cogat and eventually they will do away with it. This hurts gifted URMs who will be undiscovered. But why should families who prep care about other gifted kids?

Yes, SAT evolved and its preparation materials are now freely available on Khan Academy and other online sources which makes it accessible to all kids, including talented URMs. Transparency and equal access are important.

Uh, colleges are dropping the SAT entirely. That hurst URMs. You know that, right?

Many are test optional but SATs can still be submitted. And yes, standardized tests with free materials and open access can help URMs be discovered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the 1970s and 80s, kids were told that they couldn't/shouldn't study for the SAT. That it was a measure of their innate ability.

Look how far we've come.

No one I know has ever been told this. This is a knowledge test. OF COURSE you should prep.

The SAT was created in the 1920s and was a modified version of an Army IQ test.

And today it's nothing like that...

For a long time, the Scholastic Aptitude Test was considered an aptitude test, as a PP noted, until Kaplan showed them otherwise.

Since then, they've changed it multiple times and it's very different from the test it used to be. They even changed the name to Scholastic Assessment Test then eventually to just SAT. Just as prepping broke the SAT, prepping is breaking the Cogat and eventually they will do away with it. This hurts gifted URMs who will be undiscovered. But why should families who prep care about other gifted kids?

Yes, SAT evolved and its preparation materials are now freely available on Khan Academy and other online sources which makes it accessible to all kids, including talented URMs. Transparency and equal access are important.

Uh, colleges are dropping the SAT entirely. That hurst URMs. You know that, right?

Many are test optional but SATs can still be submitted. And yes, standardized tests with free materials and open access can help URMs be discovered.

Well, colleges want to get rid of the SATs because, even with free materials, they aren't giving the demographics that the colleges want. So they want to get rid of the test.

Re the Cogat, it's not a "standardized test" or an assessment test. It's supposed to be a more affordable version for schools to use than a full-blown IQ test, that school districts used to use (some still do) on a selected group of students. And no, you're not supposed to study/prep/cheat for an IQ test, but it is preppable/gameable or as PP upthread put it, a "bad test". Since parents have wrecked the Cogat, they'll move to something else. Right now, that something else is the GBRS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the 1970s and 80s, kids were told that they couldn't/shouldn't study for the SAT. That it was a measure of their innate ability.

Look how far we've come.

No one I know has ever been told this. This is a knowledge test. OF COURSE you should prep.

The SAT was created in the 1920s and was a modified version of an Army IQ test.

And today it's nothing like that...

For a long time, the Scholastic Aptitude Test was considered an aptitude test, as a PP noted, until Kaplan showed them otherwise.

Since then, they've changed it multiple times and it's very different from the test it used to be. They even changed the name to Scholastic Assessment Test then eventually to just SAT. Just as prepping broke the SAT, prepping is breaking the Cogat and eventually they will do away with it. This hurts gifted URMs who will be undiscovered. But why should families who prep care about other gifted kids?

Yes, SAT evolved and its preparation materials are now freely available on Khan Academy and other online sources which makes it accessible to all kids, including talented URMs. Transparency and equal access are important.

Uh, colleges are dropping the SAT entirely. That hurst URMs. You know that, right?

Many are test optional but SATs can still be submitted. And yes, standardized tests with free materials and open access can help URMs be discovered.

Well, colleges want to get rid of the SATs because, even with free materials, they aren't giving the demographics that the colleges want. So they want to get rid of the test.

Re the Cogat, it's not a "standardized test" or an assessment test. It's supposed to be a more affordable version for schools to use than a full-blown IQ test, that school districts used to use (some still do) on a selected group of students. And no, you're not supposed to study/prep/cheat for an IQ test, but it is preppable/gameable or as PP upthread put it, a "bad test". Since parents have wrecked the Cogat, they'll move to something else. Right now, that something else is the GBRS.

They were some foreign sat scandals. I think that’s what happened. And recycled question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the 1970s and 80s, kids were told that they couldn't/shouldn't study for the SAT. That it was a measure of their innate ability.

Look how far we've come.

No one I know has ever been told this. This is a knowledge test. OF COURSE you should prep.

The SAT was created in the 1920s and was a modified version of an Army IQ test.

And today it's nothing like that...

For a long time, the Scholastic Aptitude Test was considered an aptitude test, as a PP noted, until Kaplan showed them otherwise.

Since then, they've changed it multiple times and it's very different from the test it used to be. They even changed the name to Scholastic Assessment Test then eventually to just SAT. Just as prepping broke the SAT, prepping is breaking the Cogat and eventually they will do away with it. This hurts gifted URMs who will be undiscovered. But why should families who prep care about other gifted kids?

Yes, SAT evolved and its preparation materials are now freely available on Khan Academy and other online sources which makes it accessible to all kids, including talented URMs. Transparency and equal access are important.

Uh, colleges are dropping the SAT entirely. That hurst URMs. You know that, right?

Many are test optional but SATs can still be submitted. And yes, standardized tests with free materials and open access can help URMs be discovered.

Well, colleges want to get rid of the SATs because, even with free materials, they aren't giving the demographics that the colleges want. So they want to get rid of the test.

Re the Cogat, it's not a "standardized test" or an assessment test. It's supposed to be a more affordable version for schools to use than a full-blown IQ test, that school districts used to use (some still do) on a selected group of students. And no, you're not supposed to study/prep/cheat for an IQ test, but it is preppable/gameable or as PP upthread put it, a "bad test". Since parents have wrecked the Cogat, they'll move to something else. Right now, that something else is the GBRS.

They were some foreign sat scandals. I think that’s what happened. And recycled question.

It is a combination of events. There were foreign cheating scandals. It is not that questions are recycled but that there are recognizable patterns to the types of questions and kids can be taught how to solve the very specific questions on the test. And that prep tends to be concentrated in particular groups of people, primarily people with higher incomes, Caucasians, and Asian kids. Finally, there is academic research that points to cultural bias in the test, particularly in the vocab section.

I remember Kaplan’s arrival on the scene in the 1980’s, I wrote an article on them for my high school newspaper. Very few kids were doing prep at that time, my school was a high SES school, and most of my friends thought the idea of studying for the test on the weekend was horrific and cheating. That had already shifted by the time my younger sibling was in high school 5 years later because people saw how prepping influenced scores and acceptances. It didn’t take long. My high school was a majority/minority high school, with Chinese, Korean, and Japanese kids being in the majority. My younger siblings school was mainly Caucasian, he attended a private school because of learning issues.

Kids can still submit their SAT scores. I believe that the guidance from guidance counselors has been to submit your SAT scores when they are in the range or higher that the school says is the average for their students. Colleges still use them but they have less weight now then they used to. Same thing has happened with the NNAT and the CoGAT for AAP.