prepping for cogat test .. is it cheating?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't hate the players, hate the game.

But that would mean her child is not “gifted”. What a tragedy! Instead her child is gifted, and the others are cheating.

AAP is not a gifted program.
When a child actively prepares for tests, including COGAT, NNAT, SOL, etc. it demonstrates their appreciation for and interest in learning. In this regard, they are likely to adapt well to the AAP program. While it is not a very good program for truly gifted children, it does provide an excellent opportunity for students who are motivated to delve deeper into their studies compared to their peers in general education.

The commonwealth of Virginia requires a gifted program for schools. AAP is the gifted program for FCPS. And it's a good program for my "actually" gifted kid as well as my "only 120s IQ" kid.

Ymnv

AAP is NOT a gifted program, but fcps fulfills the gifted mandate through the aap program.

Truly gifted children aren’t being served.

Fwiw, the design of the center school system is to both provide a curriculum (the implementation varies by school and teacher) and to provide a cohort of a large number of gifted kids as well as some bright kids (which also varies by school and class). The cohort is the most valuable and beneficial part of the program for "truly gifted kids".

That is true, but the highly gifted kids, let’s say 140-145+ are underserved. And that’s what it is. The point is that the way the program is designed as of now, mildly gifted kids belong there. They are there to expand the program.

If aap as it is now disappears, then the highly gifted will have to have an exclusive program to fulfill the mandate. That will sit ill with soooo many people.

What would the AAP as is now be replaced with? A program for 145+ kids, would have about 15 kids per grade over the entire district. It would make absolutely no sense for many reasons: commuting 30+ miles for elementary students, funding, etc. why would the public school system set up an alternate school for a very tiny sliver of students? By lowering the bar, more students get in and there’s more public support for the program.

It would make sense for those profoundly gifted kids. I don’t think there are as few as 15 per grade, but if that number is correct it shows how underserved those kids really are.

But the current approach to aap is that more kids can benefit, and that’s fine. We are sacrificing a very important segment of kids. Often their parents fill the gap, but not for most of those kids, and that’s sad for so many.

There are real and hard consequences for the profoundly gifted. And it’s surprising that we don’t foster and support them adequately, because they’re the ones that will make inventions, find cures, etc.

Kids like this will be fine no matter what we do. Our main focus needs to be on equity and closing the achievement gap. This requires all our resources.

But FCPS is doing it wrong…. Do you think sending an email to the parents on free tutor fund will get those lower achievers’ parents to apply? No! The only people that will apply are new immigrants that are focused on education (I’m not going to indicate the race here, but they are not what you are focusing here in this county). FCPS needs to hire a marketing team to resolve the equity issue, not bunch educators pulling the whole average down to close the achievement gap. It’s simple to advertise these free tutor funds at the parents working places and ethnic gatherings. FCPS can save so much money if they just hire the right people to do the job…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't hate the players, hate the game.

But that would mean her child is not “gifted”. What a tragedy! Instead her child is gifted, and the others are cheating.

AAP is not a gifted program.
When a child actively prepares for tests, including COGAT, NNAT, SOL, etc. it demonstrates their appreciation for and interest in learning. In this regard, they are likely to adapt well to the AAP program. While it is not a very good program for truly gifted children, it does provide an excellent opportunity for students who are motivated to delve deeper into their studies compared to their peers in general education.

The commonwealth of Virginia requires a gifted program for schools. AAP is the gifted program for FCPS. And it's a good program for my "actually" gifted kid as well as my "only 120s IQ" kid.

Ymnv

AAP is NOT a gifted program, but fcps fulfills the gifted mandate through the aap program.

Truly gifted children aren’t being served.

Fwiw, the design of the center school system is to both provide a curriculum (the implementation varies by school and teacher) and to provide a cohort of a large number of gifted kids as well as some bright kids (which also varies by school and class). The cohort is the most valuable and beneficial part of the program for "truly gifted kids".

That is true, but the highly gifted kids, let’s say 140-145+ are underserved. And that’s what it is. The point is that the way the program is designed as of now, mildly gifted kids belong there. They are there to expand the program.

If aap as it is now disappears, then the highly gifted will have to have an exclusive program to fulfill the mandate. That will sit ill with soooo many people.

What would the AAP as is now be replaced with? A program for 145+ kids, would have about 15 kids per grade over the entire district. It would make absolutely no sense for many reasons: commuting 30+ miles for elementary students, funding, etc. why would the public school system set up an alternate school for a very tiny sliver of students? By lowering the bar, more students get in and there’s more public support for the program.

It would make sense for those profoundly gifted kids. I don’t think there are as few as 15 per grade, but if that number is correct it shows how underserved those kids really are.

But the current approach to aap is that more kids can benefit, and that’s fine. We are sacrificing a very important segment of kids. Often their parents fill the gap, but not for most of those kids, and that’s sad for so many.

There are real and hard consequences for the profoundly gifted. And it’s surprising that we don’t foster and support them adequately, because they’re the ones that will make inventions, find cures, etc.

Kids like this will be fine no matter what we do. Our main focus needs to be on equity and closing the achievement gap. This requires all our resources.

This is why our public school system fails, looking at the lowest common denominator to close the achievement gap so everyone fails… the successful public school systems in the country support their best students so the lower achievers can be pulled up by peer pressure and parental pressure…

I agree with the PP who says the lowest common denominator approach will destroy the education quality of FCPS. It's not good for the average or above average or gifted to drag them down to the level of the least well prepared kid in school. Not sure why parents put with this. Less testing, fewer administrators, and more targeted teaching at all levels is necessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Profoundly gifted kids are likely to become underachiever if their parents do not figure out their abilities early on and put them in the right environment for academic and social/emotional purposes. There are many unidentified profoundly gifted children suffering in the general Ed classes because their parents are not education focused, and their teachers can not identify them because they are just too different than the average smart kids. FCPS should put resources toward this population they are just as different as the kids that have learning disabilities.

Profoundly gifted kids have never been well served by group education. It is unfair to expect public schools to provide a setting that must be tailor made to the child. Genius level kids historically have always been served by individual tutors. If you wanted to make a school for them, it would be one or two for the entire US of A.

[Anonymous]

So many rationalizations for CHEATING!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Profoundly gifted kids are likely to become underachiever if their parents do not figure out their abilities early on and put them in the right environment for academic and social/emotional purposes. There are many unidentified profoundly gifted children suffering in the general Ed classes because their parents are not education focused, and their teachers can not identify them because they are just too different than the average smart kids. FCPS should put resources toward this population they are just as different as the kids that have learning disabilities.

Profoundly gifted kids have never been well served by group education. It is unfair to expect public schools to provide a setting that must be tailor made to the child. Genius level kids historically have always been served by individual tutors. If you wanted to make a school for them, it would be one or two for the entire US of A.

The ones with personal tutors are the ones with the money. There are many profoundly gifted ones who don’t have the funds, so they are at risk.

The problem is that most people can’t fathom or comprehend the needs of those profoundly gifted, and they won’t allow specialized education for those profoundly gifted kids. If they can’t have a piece for their kid, they won’t have it.

I don’t think you can prep into a profoundly gifted iq. It’s not possible, unless you actually know the actual test.

For the level of academics offered in the aap, I f you have a smart kid, they will benefit. No need to be truly, highly, profoundly gifted for that program.

When my kid entered aap I thought that it’d be a group of profoundly gifted, where they’d all share their great ideas. It’s not so. I’m all for this program, and I totally understand the need for it.

It’s ok that there were no profoundly gifted kids in my kid’s classes for a long long time. There is nothing I could do about that. My kid learned something’s there too, but it was largely a waste of time.

It’s extremely hard to adequately support a profoundly gifted child. It’s a lone road for both child and parents. Whatever you say is perceived as bragging, so you learn to say nothing, but then you send a message to your kid that the world doesn’t like them, or it may seem to your child that you’re ashamed, when in reality you’re only protecting your child.

I understand the people who don’t get the needs of the profoundly gifted. They don’t have the experience, empathy or imagination to know or want to know. That’s how people are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Profoundly gifted kids are likely to become underachiever if their parents do not figure out their abilities early on and put them in the right environment for academic and social/emotional purposes. There are many unidentified profoundly gifted children suffering in the general Ed classes because their parents are not education focused, and their teachers can not identify them because they are just too different than the average smart kids. FCPS should put resources toward this population they are just as different as the kids that have learning disabilities.

Profoundly gifted kids have never been well served by group education. It is unfair to expect public schools to provide a setting that must be tailor made to the child. Genius level kids historically have always been served by individual tutors. If you wanted to make a school for them, it would be one or two for the entire US of A.

The ones with personal tutors are the ones with the money. There are many profoundly gifted ones who don’t have the funds, so they are at risk.

The problem is that most people can’t fathom or comprehend the needs of those profoundly gifted, and they won’t allow specialized education for those profoundly gifted kids. If they can’t have a piece for their kid, they won’t have it.

I don’t think you can prep into a profoundly gifted iq. It’s not possible, unless you actually know the actual test.

For the level of academics offered in the aap, I f you have a smart kid, they will benefit. No need to be truly, highly, profoundly gifted for that program.

When my kid entered aap I thought that it’d be a group of profoundly gifted, where they’d all share their great ideas. It’s not so. I’m all for this program, and I totally understand the need for it.

It’s ok that there were no profoundly gifted kids in my kid’s classes for a long long time. There is nothing I could do about that. My kid learned something’s there too, but it was largely a waste of time.

It’s extremely hard to adequately support a profoundly gifted child. It’s a lone road for both child and parents. Whatever you say is perceived as bragging, so you learn to say nothing, but then you send a message to your kid that the world doesn’t like them, or it may seem to your child that you’re ashamed, when in reality you’re only protecting your child.

I understand the people who don’t get the needs of the profoundly gifted. They don’t have the experience, empathy or imagination to know or want to know. That’s how people are.

you don't need to overly protect them. I just tell him that he doesn't need to have everyone like him, and he doesn't need to like everyone, just don't tell people in their face when he's frustrated with people. I also let him know that if he does his best, he can be the next Einstein or Elon Musk. I tell him that the high IQ is just an IQ score, what he can do in the world with that IQ is what matters. It's a long road, the good thing is that we identified them early on. there are much more online resources than the school system can provide to educate these kids and support their emotional needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Profoundly gifted kids are likely to become underachiever if their parents do not figure out their abilities early on and put them in the right environment for academic and social/emotional purposes. There are many unidentified profoundly gifted children suffering in the general Ed classes because their parents are not education focused, and their teachers can not identify them because they are just too different than the average smart kids. FCPS should put resources toward this population they are just as different as the kids that have learning disabilities.

Profoundly gifted kids have never been well served by group education. It is unfair to expect public schools to provide a setting that must be tailor made to the child. Genius level kids historically have always been served by individual tutors. If you wanted to make a school for them, it would be one or two for the entire US of A.

The ones with personal tutors are the ones with the money. There are many profoundly gifted ones who don’t have the funds, so they are at risk.

The problem is that most people can’t fathom or comprehend the needs of those profoundly gifted, and they won’t allow specialized education for those profoundly gifted kids. If they can’t have a piece for their kid, they won’t have it.

I don’t think you can prep into a profoundly gifted iq. It’s not possible, unless you actually know the actual test.

For the level of academics offered in the aap, I f you have a smart kid, they will benefit. No need to be truly, highly, profoundly gifted for that program.

When my kid entered aap I thought that it’d be a group of profoundly gifted, where they’d all share their great ideas. It’s not so. I’m all for this program, and I totally understand the need for it.

It’s ok that there were no profoundly gifted kids in my kid’s classes for a long long time. There is nothing I could do about that. My kid learned something’s there too, but it was largely a waste of time.

It’s extremely hard to adequately support a profoundly gifted child. It’s a lone road for both child and parents. Whatever you say is perceived as bragging, so you learn to say nothing, but then you send a message to your kid that the world doesn’t like them, or it may seem to your child that you’re ashamed, when in reality you’re only protecting your child.

I understand the people who don’t get the needs of the profoundly gifted. They don’t have the experience, empathy or imagination to know or want to know. That’s how people are.

May I ask which grade your kid is in now? my child is in 2nd grade took the WISC for Appeal and identified as profoundly gifted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Profoundly gifted kids are likely to become underachiever if their parents do not figure out their abilities early on and put them in the right environment for academic and social/emotional purposes. There are many unidentified profoundly gifted children suffering in the general Ed classes because their parents are not education focused, and their teachers can not identify them because they are just too different than the average smart kids. FCPS should put resources toward this population they are just as different as the kids that have learning disabilities.

Profoundly gifted kids have never been well served by group education. It is unfair to expect public schools to provide a setting that must be tailor made to the child. Genius level kids historically have always been served by individual tutors. If you wanted to make a school for them, it would be one or two for the entire US of A.

I think the PPs are using an IQ of 145+ as their cutoff for "profoundly gifted." Even so, public schools cannot meet the needs of these kids. There simply isn't enough of a critical mass of them anywhere for instruction at the appropriate level. There isn't even an appropriate instructional level as such, since one kid with an IQ of 145+ might be at the ceiling in the WISC VCI, but only moderately gifted in other domains, while another kid might be at the ceiling in FRI, but only moderately gifted in other domains. There is a reason that many kids in the 145+ IQ range are either homeschooled or attend Davidson Academy online. No public school system can meet them where they are.

That being said, FCPS could certainly do a better job of trying to meet the needs of the kids who are far beyond the norm. If they had a program more similar to the old GT one, serving only 5% of the school population, it would go a long way toward meeting the needs of the highly gifted kids. Even AAP teachers teach toward the bottom or lowest common denominator in their classrooms, which is currently pretty low since 20% of the kids are being admitted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Profoundly gifted kids are likely to become underachiever if their parents do not figure out their abilities early on and put them in the right environment for academic and social/emotional purposes. There are many unidentified profoundly gifted children suffering in the general Ed classes because their parents are not education focused, and their teachers can not identify them because they are just too different than the average smart kids. FCPS should put resources toward this population they are just as different as the kids that have learning disabilities.

Profoundly gifted kids have never been well served by group education. It is unfair to expect public schools to provide a setting that must be tailor made to the child. Genius level kids historically have always been served by individual tutors. If you wanted to make a school for them, it would be one or two for the entire US of A.

I think the PPs are using an IQ of 145+ as their cutoff for "profoundly gifted." Even so, public schools cannot meet the needs of these kids. There simply isn't enough of a critical mass of them anywhere for instruction at the appropriate level. There isn't even an appropriate instructional level as such, since one kid with an IQ of 145+ might be at the ceiling in the WISC VCI, but only moderately gifted in other domains, while another kid might be at the ceiling in FRI, but only moderately gifted in other domains. There is a reason that many kids in the 145+ IQ range are either homeschooled or attend Davidson Academy online. No public school system can meet them where they are.

That being said, FCPS could certainly do a better job of trying to meet the needs of the kids who are far beyond the norm. If they had a program more similar to the old GT one, serving only 5% of the school population, it would go a long way toward meeting the needs of the highly gifted kids. Even AAP teachers teach toward the bottom or lowest common denominator in their classrooms, which is currently pretty low since 20% of the kids are being admitted.

As I understand it, the "old" GT program was closer to 10% than 5. But regardless, the current program is variable. Some center schools teach to the lowest common denominator while other center schools teach at a high level and some students in AAP really struggle and some are left behind. For all that everyone complains about the former, and for all that my DC has befitted from a center school like the latter, I wonder if it really is better. Maybe they should have tracking, even (or at least) in Level IV.

[Anonymous]

I just don't get why so many people post here trying to justify cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just don't get why so many people post here trying to justify cheating.

If you can’t even understand your own self claiming that something is cheating without proof, you can’t understand others who claim the truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:16:16.

You are allowed to prep for any and all tests! We're not in a Communist country here

I make a lot of money prepping kids for the CogAT, NNAT, SCAT, ISEE, and SSAT!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Profoundly gifted kids are likely to become underachiever if their parents do not figure out their abilities early on and put them in the right environment for academic and social/emotional purposes. There are many unidentified profoundly gifted children suffering in the general Ed classes because their parents are not education focused, and their teachers can not identify them because they are just too different than the average smart kids. FCPS should put resources toward this population they are just as different as the kids that have learning disabilities.

Profoundly gifted kids have never been well served by group education. It is unfair to expect public schools to provide a setting that must be tailor made to the child. Genius level kids historically have always been served by individual tutors. If you wanted to make a school for them, it would be one or two for the entire US of A.

I think the PPs are using an IQ of 145+ as their cutoff for "profoundly gifted." Even so, public schools cannot meet the needs of these kids. There simply isn't enough of a critical mass of them anywhere for instruction at the appropriate level. There isn't even an appropriate instructional level as such, since one kid with an IQ of 145+ might be at the ceiling in the WISC VCI, but only moderately gifted in other domains, while another kid might be at the ceiling in FRI, but only moderately gifted in other domains. There is a reason that many kids in the 145+ IQ range are either homeschooled or attend Davidson Academy online. No public school system can meet them where they are.

That being said, FCPS could certainly do a better job of trying to meet the needs of the kids who are far beyond the norm. If they had a program more similar to the old GT one, serving only 5% of the school population, it would go a long way toward meeting the needs of the highly gifted kids. Even AAP teachers teach toward the bottom or lowest common denominator in their classrooms, which is currently pretty low since 20% of the kids are being admitted.

They must be. These comments otherwise make no sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't hate the players, hate the game.

But that would mean her child is not “gifted”. What a tragedy! Instead her child is gifted, and the others are cheating.

AAP is not a gifted program.
When a child actively prepares for tests, including COGAT, NNAT, SOL, etc. it demonstrates their appreciation for and interest in learning. In this regard, they are likely to adapt well to the AAP program. While it is not a very good program for truly gifted children, it does provide an excellent opportunity for students who are motivated to delve deeper into their studies compared to their peers in general education.

The commonwealth of Virginia requires a gifted program for schools. AAP is the gifted program for FCPS. And it's a good program for my "actually" gifted kid as well as my "only 120s IQ" kid.

Ymnv

AAP is NOT a gifted program, but fcps fulfills the gifted mandate through the aap program.

Truly gifted children aren’t being served.

Fwiw, the design of the center school system is to both provide a curriculum (the implementation varies by school and teacher) and to provide a cohort of a large number of gifted kids as well as some bright kids (which also varies by school and class). The cohort is the most valuable and beneficial part of the program for "truly gifted kids".

That is true, but the highly gifted kids, let’s say 140-145+ are underserved. And that’s what it is. The point is that the way the program is designed as of now, mildly gifted kids belong there. They are there to expand the program.

If aap as it is now disappears, then the highly gifted will have to have an exclusive program to fulfill the mandate. That will sit ill with soooo many people.

What would the AAP as is now be replaced with? A program for 145+ kids, would have about 15 kids per grade over the entire district. It would make absolutely no sense for many reasons: commuting 30+ miles for elementary students, funding, etc. why would the public school system set up an alternate school for a very tiny sliver of students? By lowering the bar, more students get in and there’s more public support for the program.

It would make sense for those profoundly gifted kids. I don’t think there are as few as 15 per grade, but if that number is correct it shows how underserved those kids really are.

But the current approach to aap is that more kids can benefit, and that’s fine. We are sacrificing a very important segment of kids. Often their parents fill the gap, but not for most of those kids, and that’s sad for so many.

There are real and hard consequences for the profoundly gifted. And it’s surprising that we don’t foster and support them adequately, because they’re the ones that will make inventions, find cures, etc.

Kids like this will be fine no matter what we do. Our main focus needs to be on equity and closing the achievement gap. This requires all our resources.

100%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't hate the players, hate the game.

But that would mean her child is not “gifted”. What a tragedy! Instead her child is gifted, and the others are cheating.

AAP is not a gifted program.
When a child actively prepares for tests, including COGAT, NNAT, SOL, etc. it demonstrates their appreciation for and interest in learning. In this regard, they are likely to adapt well to the AAP program. While it is not a very good program for truly gifted children, it does provide an excellent opportunity for students who are motivated to delve deeper into their studies compared to their peers in general education.

The commonwealth of Virginia requires a gifted program for schools. AAP is the gifted program for FCPS. And it's a good program for my "actually" gifted kid as well as my "only 120s IQ" kid.

Ymnv

AAP is NOT a gifted program, but fcps fulfills the gifted mandate through the aap program.

Truly gifted children aren’t being served.

Fwiw, the design of the center school system is to both provide a curriculum (the implementation varies by school and teacher) and to provide a cohort of a large number of gifted kids as well as some bright kids (which also varies by school and class). The cohort is the most valuable and beneficial part of the program for "truly gifted kids".

That is true, but the highly gifted kids, let’s say 140-145+ are underserved. And that’s what it is. The point is that the way the program is designed as of now, mildly gifted kids belong there. They are there to expand the program.

If aap as it is now disappears, then the highly gifted will have to have an exclusive program to fulfill the mandate. That will sit ill with soooo many people.

What would the AAP as is now be replaced with? A program for 145+ kids, would have about 15 kids per grade over the entire district. It would make absolutely no sense for many reasons: commuting 30+ miles for elementary students, funding, etc. why would the public school system set up an alternate school for a very tiny sliver of students? By lowering the bar, more students get in and there’s more public support for the program.

It would make sense for those profoundly gifted kids. I don’t think there are as few as 15 per grade, but if that number is correct it shows how underserved those kids really are.

But the current approach to aap is that more kids can benefit, and that’s fine. We are sacrificing a very important segment of kids. Often their parents fill the gap, but not for most of those kids, and that’s sad for so many.

There are real and hard consequences for the profoundly gifted. And it’s surprising that we don’t foster and support them adequately, because they’re the ones that will make inventions, find cures, etc.

Kids like this will be fine no matter what we do. Our main focus needs to be on equity and closing the achievement gap. This requires all our resources.

100%

Is your 100% interpreting the PP as being sincere or sarcastic? Pretty sure it was the latter. (At least I hope).