Is it time to end the 50% rule in math?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here’s the problem: the most important years in a child’s education are k-5. Yet, the lower third of every college graduating class go into teaching (if they go into elementary education at all). See the issue?

This is a long standing problem. In order to attract higher caliber students to education programs, teacher pay needs to be raised which just isn't happening. If you raise pay, then likely more higher achieving kids will want to study education in college.

MCPS teachers who are on a 10-month schedule (don't have to work 2 months/year) start at $54,038 and go up to $118,814 with experience:
https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/district/departments/ersc/employees/pay/schedules/salary_schedule_current.pdf

It's actually less than 10 months. Typically 180 days, and if my kids' teachers are typical, most take off a few days a month, so more like 160-170 days total. Now, I'm not trying to denigrate teachers, it can be a tough job, but want to paint an accurate picture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's done for equity reasons. Too many kids of certain groups were failing the grade because they weren't passing certain classes. This helps them move forward.

I think it's highly unlikely MCPS will change this, considering the expected results regarding equity.

Your equity argument is getting tired. When all you have is a hammer...

Source?

You say this because you haven't been paying attention to what the 'experts' are saying about math instruction.
'In order to have more equitable schooling, parents need to give up their privilege.'

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here’s the problem: the most important years in a child’s education are k-5. Yet, the lower third of every college graduating class go into teaching (if they go into elementary education at all). See the issue?

This is a long standing problem. In order to attract higher caliber students to education programs, teacher pay needs to be raised which just isn't happening. If you raise pay, then likely more higher achieving kids will want to study education in college.

MCPS teachers who are on a 10-month schedule (don't have to work 2 months/year) start at $54,038 and go up to $118,814 with experience:
https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/district/departments/ersc/employees/pay/schedules/salary_schedule_current.pdf

It's actually less than 10 months. Typically 180 days, and if my kids' teachers are typical, most take off a few days a month, so more like 160-170 days total. Now, I'm not trying to denigrate teachers, it can be a tough job, but want to paint an accurate picture.

Teachers have 193 duty days from 8/22/22 to 6/20/23 this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Private school parent here. Our school doesn't allow students to advance if they don't master the previous course. Hence, after a year of virtual learning during covid, most students who were doing Algebra I in 7th grade had to repeat it in 8th grade. Luckily we entered the school in HS and my daughter (who was in person entire 20-21 school year) tested into Algebra 2 for 9th grade while most 9th graders are doing geometry. She's doing great, but is only one of two 9th graders in her class. What's great is the class is rigorous and not dumbed down to accommodate other 9th graders who didn't master previous material.

Public schools used to be so good with math, but I fear those days are ending. My older child did MCPS through 8th grade years ago and had an excellent preparation for HS math.

Yawn, you keep posting about your private school the has no relevance to MCPS. Many kids did just fine in Algebra virtually, like mine. Maybe there is an issue with your private school if your child had to repeat a class. Or, why didn't you help them or get a tutor or have them do a summer prep or review class? Algebra 2 is nothing to brag about in 9th. Some of our kids are doing Algebra 2 in 8th.

I didn't say my kid had to repeat. I said the kids who were in this particular school for middle school had to repeat. My daughter was in person in another school for middle school and enrolled in this school for 9th. They did the right thing. Kids who aren't prepared for the material will only hold back those who are.

You are correct--SOME students do Alg. 2 in 8th, but it is very rare...especially now that kids are so far behind in math. I guess you haven't been reading all the stories about the horrendous test scores. Yes, some kids are fine and maybe yours is fine, but the majority ARE NOT FINE. MCPS just pushes kids through regardless of whether or not they have mastered material. We all know this.

You claim MANY kids did just find virtually in Algebra I...what does many mean? It should be most, not many. If not, then the kids who didn't do ok should repeat Alg. I so they don't hold back the kids who are actually well prepared for Alg. II.

You should question how well your private is doing if that many kids need to repeat.

The majority of kids are fine. The real issue for MCPS is the teaching style, lack of textbook and curriculum and lack of reinforcement via homework and classwork and the little they have is never reviewed in class. However, MCPS has offered free tutoring for two years both in person and virtually and has been back in person for two years so blaming covid/virtual at this point is silly.

Your private clearly isn't that good or taking the cream of the crop of students if some of our kids are far more advanced in math and doing better.

Here's the thing. The private school actually dives deep into content vs. what MCPS does, which is basically brushing the surface of everything. Any kid who was in virtual classes for an entire year would likely not have covered enough to get to the next level and truly excel in the material. The private school is being realistic and working to have students succeed vs. pushing them all through. This private school is one of the top 10 in the state, so not sure how you can say it is not good. Ranked higher than the W schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Private school parent here. Our school doesn't allow students to advance if they don't master the previous course. Hence, after a year of virtual learning during covid, most students who were doing Algebra I in 7th grade had to repeat it in 8th grade. Luckily we entered the school in HS and my daughter (who was in person entire 20-21 school year) tested into Algebra 2 for 9th grade while most 9th graders are doing geometry. She's doing great, but is only one of two 9th graders in her class. What's great is the class is rigorous and not dumbed down to accommodate other 9th graders who didn't master previous material.

Public schools used to be so good with math, but I fear those days are ending. My older child did MCPS through 8th grade years ago and had an excellent preparation for HS math.

Yawn, you keep posting about your private school the has no relevance to MCPS. Many kids did just fine in Algebra virtually, like mine. Maybe there is an issue with your private school if your child had to repeat a class. Or, why didn't you help them or get a tutor or have them do a summer prep or review class? Algebra 2 is nothing to brag about in 9th. Some of our kids are doing Algebra 2 in 8th.

I didn't say my kid had to repeat. I said the kids who were in this particular school for middle school had to repeat. My daughter was in person in another school for middle school and enrolled in this school for 9th. They did the right thing. Kids who aren't prepared for the material will only hold back those who are.

You are correct--SOME students do Alg. 2 in 8th, but it is very rare...especially now that kids are so far behind in math. I guess you haven't been reading all the stories about the horrendous test scores. Yes, some kids are fine and maybe yours is fine, but the majority ARE NOT FINE. MCPS just pushes kids through regardless of whether or not they have mastered material. We all know this.

You claim MANY kids did just find virtually in Algebra I...what does many mean? It should be most, not many. If not, then the kids who didn't do ok should repeat Alg. I so they don't hold back the kids who are actually well prepared for Alg. II.

You should question how well your private is doing if that many kids need to repeat.

The majority of kids are fine. The real issue for MCPS is the teaching style, lack of textbook and curriculum and lack of reinforcement via homework and classwork and the little they have is never reviewed in class. However, MCPS has offered free tutoring for two years both in person and virtually and has been back in person for two years so blaming covid/virtual at this point is silly.

Your private clearly isn't that good or taking the cream of the crop of students if some of our kids are far more advanced in math and doing better.

Here's the thing. The private school actually dives deep into content vs. what MCPS does, which is basically brushing the surface of everything. Any kid who was in virtual classes for an entire year would likely not have covered enough to get to the next level and truly excel in the material. The private school is being realistic and working to have students succeed vs. pushing them all through. This private school is one of the top 10 in the state, so not sure how you can say it is not good. Ranked higher than the W schools.

No, they don’t but keep telling yourself that. My kids have been in virtual for three years. We’ve done both public and private school. For math public is much better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here’s the problem: the most important years in a child’s education are k-5. Yet, the lower third of every college graduating class go into teaching (if they go into elementary education at all). See the issue?

This is a long standing problem. In order to attract higher caliber students to education programs, teacher pay needs to be raised which just isn't happening. If you raise pay, then likely more higher achieving kids will want to study education in college.

MCPS teachers who are on a 10-month schedule (don't have to work 2 months/year) start at $54,038 and go up to $118,814 with experience:
https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/district/departments/ersc/employees/pay/schedules/salary_schedule_current.pdf

Ok now work out a budget for this new teacher who lives in MoCo and has 7% taken out automatically for a pension they may never vest in, who buys her own classroom supplies, etc.

Now do it for the married couple, both teachers, who are on year 10 and paying daycare expenses in MoCo.

If each teacher is making 70-80k it’s very doable if you watch your housing costs. Many of us liv3 on that or less and are fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here’s the problem: the most important years in a child’s education are k-5. Yet, the lower third of every college graduating class go into teaching (if they go into elementary education at all). See the issue?

This is a long standing problem. In order to attract higher caliber students to education programs, teacher pay needs to be raised which just isn't happening. If you raise pay, then likely more higher achieving kids will want to study education in college.

MCPS teachers who are on a 10-month schedule (don't have to work 2 months/year) start at $54,038 and go up to $118,814 with experience:
https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/district/departments/ersc/employees/pay/schedules/salary_schedule_current.pdf

It's actually less than 10 months. Typically 180 days, and if my kids' teachers are typical, most take off a few days a month, so more like 160-170 days total. Now, I'm not trying to denigrate teachers, it can be a tough job, but want to paint an accurate picture.

Teachers have 193 duty days from 8/22/22 to 6/20/23 this year.

When you include paid holidays it ends up 180.

[Anonymous]

What we really need are talented and smart math teachers in elementary who know how to teach and motivate kids, teaching is a skill and art. Once you build a strong foundation, kids will have easier time later. That is the key.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What we really need are talented and smart math teachers in elementary who know how to teach and motivate kids, teaching is a skill and art. Once you build a strong foundation, kids will have easier time later. That is the key.

Won't work. You have to pay them.
If there talented in math they can have a much better job elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

*they're

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dump the 50% rule as well as the limit on the number of assignments a teacher can give. Only allowing 8-12 practice (homework) assignments per quarter is destroying competence and academic self-confidence. The current system is a disaster.

The kids who likely take advantage of this are struggling so why begrudge them this? My children had scores in the high 90s in all their classes so it was never an issue for us. If they changed it, it would have 0 impacts on us. I don't feel it really matters. I wish the school would grasp that not everyone has the same values and goals. Maybe they would provide different paths instead of all this "Honors for all" nonsense.5

Yep! This doesn't matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What we really need are talented and smart math teachers in elementary who know how to teach and motivate kids, teaching is a skill and art. Once you build a strong foundation, kids will have easier time later. That is the key.

Most who are capable at an advanced level don’t want to teach even for more pay.

[Anonymous]

Unpopular opinion: kids should keep repeating the same material until they get it. Getting every other question wrong is not getting it. I wouldn’t expect 100% but close. Otherwise, they don’t have a chance with higher level math, as you said.

For that matter, the same thing should apply to reading and writing. It makes no sense to let students move up if they can’t do the previous level properly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unpopular opinion: kids should keep repeating the same material until they get it. Getting every other question wrong is not getting it. I wouldn’t expect 100% but close. Otherwise, they don’t have a chance with higher level math, as you said.

For that matter, the same thing should apply to reading and writing. It makes no sense to let students move up if they can’t do the previous level properly.

MCPS has retakes, so as a parent you make them retake it. Simple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dump the 50% rule as well as the limit on the number of assignments a teacher can give. Only allowing 8-12 practice (homework) assignments per quarter is destroying competence and academic self-confidence. The current system is a disaster.

The kids who likely take advantage of this are struggling so why begrudge them this? My children had scores in the high 90s in all their classes so it was never an issue for us. If they changed it, it would have 0 impacts on us. I don't feel it really matters. I wish the school would grasp that not everyone has the same values and goals. Maybe they would provide different paths instead of all this "Honors for all" nonsense.5

Yep! This doesn't matter.

They do have different math paths in MCPS for MS/HS.