W&M vs. uVA for someone who wants to go for a humanities PhD after undergrad?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Professor here...agree both are great options and the student should look at specific faculty profiles and/or evaluate where they'll be happiest.

Botb are great. My UVA grad is doing a doctorate (DPhil) at Oxford right now.

When I was looking at graduate programs, I was warned that although a certain Oxbridge college had the best stash of materials for my chosen topic, no U.S. institution was going to hire me to teach with a DPhil. I was shocked, but it was my department chair, so he clearly knew about hiring.

Has that changed, or is your kid planning to do something else with their degree?

Definitely correct. There are over a hundred libraries at Oxford, the Bodlein being the most famous and one of the oldest in Europe. Most if the libraries have foreign language collections that no one else does. DC currently is prepping for the lsat. Yes the masters work ties in with law

Joint JD/PhD program, maybe?

That’s 9 yers of education after college (more than a surgeon with residency) to do… what?? I’m a lawyer. A patent attorney might want a masters in a technical field. Or a JD/MBA. Besides that, you either don’t need the JD or don’t need the post grad degree. All, I see is a serious amount of family wealth, or a serious amount of debt. And someone over 30 who has never had a real job.

[Anonymous]

To the OP -- your child will not be able to get a tenure-track academic job with a humanities Ph.D. Whether or not they get funded to do the Ph.D., there is an opportunity cost for the years spent doing the degree that they could have been working. They are setting themselves up for financial hardship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Professor here...agree both are great options and the student should look at specific faculty profiles and/or evaluate where they'll be happiest.

Botb are great. My UVA grad is doing a doctorate (DPhil) at Oxford right now.

When I was looking at graduate programs, I was warned that although a certain Oxbridge college had the best stash of materials for my chosen topic, no U.S. institution was going to hire me to teach with a DPhil. I was shocked, but it was my department chair, so he clearly knew about hiring.

Has that changed, or is your kid planning to do something else with their degree?

Definitely correct. There are over a hundred libraries at Oxford, the Bodlein being the most famous and one of the oldest in Europe. Most if the libraries have foreign language collections that no one else does. DC currently is prepping for the lsat. Yes the masters work ties in with law

Why would your child get a masters and DPhil and THEN go to law school? Why didn’t they go right after or shortly after undergrad? You’re not making sense.

Not that parent, but if you’re gunning for H or Y, you’d better have something special in addition to your perfect lsat score.

Work experience, a unique life story and/or an outstanding EC (read: Olympian) is prized in addition to grades & LSAT for HYPS.

Unless the Oxford PP’s child is a Rhodes scholar, I’m not sure how or why they think a bunch of random degrees is going to help them in law school admissions. Gives rich kid perpetual student vibes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Professor here...agree both are great options and the student should look at specific faculty profiles and/or evaluate where they'll be happiest.

Botb are great. My UVA grad is doing a doctorate (DPhil) at Oxford right now.

When I was looking at graduate programs, I was warned that although a certain Oxbridge college had the best stash of materials for my chosen topic, no U.S. institution was going to hire me to teach with a DPhil. I was shocked, but it was my department chair, so he clearly knew about hiring.

Has that changed, or is your kid planning to do something else with their degree?

Definitely correct. There are over a hundred libraries at Oxford, the Bodlein being the most famous and one of the oldest in Europe. Most if the libraries have foreign language collections that no one else does. DC currently is prepping for the lsat. Yes the masters work ties in with law

Why would your child get a masters and DPhil and THEN go to law school? Why didn’t they go right after or shortly after undergrad? You’re not making sense.

Not that parent, but if you’re gunning for H or Y, you’d better have something special in addition to your perfect lsat score.

I don’t think that’s true.

[Anonymous]

anecdotally, w&m grads went to more prestigious grad schools. uva grads got better poli sci jobs in the DC area.

(again, this is anecdotal, folks! don't come at me with your "only two years after graduating w&m with a 1.7 gpa, my kid was promoted to jonah ryan's chief speechwriter. while the neighbor kid down the street who did political philosophy, policy, and law major* at uva is slinging burgers at five guys.")

Upside of W&M: the profs there focus on undergrads and you don't have to fight with grad students to work on research with a prof, since that's basically what gets you into a grad school if you don't have family money.

however, UVa has some real go-getters who get internationally prestigious post-grad fellowships etc. So, if your kid is a total shark, UVa. If they are an intense nerd, W&M.

*if that major appeals to your kid, then UVa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Professor here...agree both are great options and the student should look at specific faculty profiles and/or evaluate where they'll be happiest.

Botb are great. My UVA grad is doing a doctorate (DPhil) at Oxford right now.

When I was looking at graduate programs, I was warned that although a certain Oxbridge college had the best stash of materials for my chosen topic, no U.S. institution was going to hire me to teach with a DPhil. I was shocked, but it was my department chair, so he clearly knew about hiring.

Has that changed, or is your kid planning to do something else with their degree?

Definitely correct. There are over a hundred libraries at Oxford, the Bodlein being the most famous and one of the oldest in Europe. Most if the libraries have foreign language collections that no one else does. DC currently is prepping for the lsat. Yes the masters work ties in with law

Why would your child get a masters and DPhil and THEN go to law school? Why didn’t they go right after or shortly after undergrad? You’re not making sense.

Not that parent, but if you’re gunning for H or Y, you’d better have something special in addition to your perfect lsat score.

.

Many of the SCOTUS justices have MPhils from Oxford and Cambridge. Kagan has an MPhil, I believe, Gorsuch has a DPhil from Oxford (Marshall scholar): Breyer was a Rhodes at Oxford; Breyer was a Rhodes, too. There were many Rhodes. Marshall’s, Fulbright at Harvard Law way back. Tiday you definitely need an ooomph factor, especially if you are white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Professor here...agree both are great options and the student should look at specific faculty profiles and/or evaluate where they'll be happiest.

Botb are great. My UVA grad is doing a doctorate (DPhil) at Oxford right now.

When I was looking at graduate programs, I was warned that although a certain Oxbridge college had the best stash of materials for my chosen topic, no U.S. institution was going to hire me to teach with a DPhil. I was shocked, but it was my department chair, so he clearly knew about hiring.

Has that changed, or is your kid planning to do something else with their degree?

Definitely correct. There are over a hundred libraries at Oxford, the Bodlein being the most famous and one of the oldest in Europe. Most if the libraries have foreign language collections that no one else does. DC currently is prepping for the lsat. Yes the masters work ties in with law

Joint JD/PhD program, maybe?

That’s 9 yers of education after college (more than a surgeon with residency) to do… what?? I’m a lawyer. A patent attorney might want a masters in a technical field. Or a JD/MBA. Besides that, you either don’t need the JD or don’t need the post grad degree. All, I see is a serious amount of family wealth, or a serious amount of debt. And someone over 30 who has never had a real job.

1) no seven years. The MPhil is two - then because the DPhil is a development of the thesis only two years. The lsat gets worked in there on the side. Then three years law
2). See the point above about the Justices having MPhils or DPhils from Oxford and. Am ridge. You do need an oomph factor if applying as a white female to top law school. The thesis should be published at least in an America law review whike applying to law school = huge oomph
3). No serious wealth. Full ride scholarship with living allowance and flights taken care of
4) she currently has a job working as a researcher/writer at an obscene amount of money. She’s been doing that for the last three years.Between that snd y
The scholarships we pay nothing. She has only $8,000 in debt from UVA (FAFSA unsubsidized monies) and is using the writing job to pay that down

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Professor here...agree both are great options and the student should look at specific faculty profiles and/or evaluate where they'll be happiest.

Botb are great. My UVA grad is doing a doctorate (DPhil) at Oxford right now.

When I was looking at graduate programs, I was warned that although a certain Oxbridge college had the best stash of materials for my chosen topic, no U.S. institution was going to hire me to teach with a DPhil. I was shocked, but it was my department chair, so he clearly knew about hiring.

Has that changed, or is your kid planning to do something else with their degree?

Definitely correct. There are over a hundred libraries at Oxford, the Bodlein being the most famous and one of the oldest in Europe. Most if the libraries have foreign language collections that no one else does. DC currently is prepping for the lsat. Yes the masters work ties in with law

Why would your child get a masters and DPhil and THEN go to law school? Why didn’t they go right after or shortly after undergrad? You’re not making sense.

Not that parent, but if you’re gunning for H or Y, you’d better have something special in addition to your perfect lsat score.

Work experience, a unique life story and/or an outstanding EC (read: Olympian) is prized in addition to grades & LSAT for HYPS.[i]

Unless the Oxford PP’s child is a Rhodes scholar, I’m not sure how or why they think a bunch of random degrees is going to help them in law school
admissions. Gives rich kid perpetual student vibes.

True. I had an Olympian in my Harvard law school class. Most of the students were the valedictorian or salutatorian of their college. It takes a lot more than just grades and lsat to get into a top law school. Five years ago Dean Manning (HLS) told me that almost all of the incoming class had taken at least two years off between undergrad and law school. Many then went to European schools for the next two years, some lucky ones on Marshalls; Rhodes, Fulbrights or they pick up an economics degree at Let’s See Europe (London school of economics). A number went to the less costly German universities. I was a lowly paralegal for my time of, earning money for law school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Professor here...agree both are great options and the student should look at specific faculty profiles and/or evaluate where they'll be happiest.

Botb are great. My UVA grad is doing a doctorate (DPhil) at Oxford right now.

When I was looking at graduate programs, I was warned that although a certain Oxbridge college had the best stash of materials for my chosen topic, no U.S. institution was going to hire me to teach with a DPhil. I was shocked, but it was my department chair, so he clearly knew about hiring.

Has that changed, or is your kid planning to do something else with their degree?

Definitely correct. There are over a hundred libraries at Oxford, the Bodlein being the most famous and one of the oldest in Europe. Most if the libraries have foreign language collections that no one else does. DC currently is prepping for the lsat. Yes the masters work ties in with law

Why would your child get a masters and DPhil and THEN go to law school? Why didn’t they go right after or shortly after undergrad? You’re not making sense.

Not that parent, but if you’re gunning for H or Y, you’d better have something special in addition to your perfect lsat score.

Work experience, a unique life story and/or an outstanding EC (read: Olympian) is prized in addition to grades & LSAT for HYPS.[i]

Unless the Oxford PP’s child is a Rhodes scholar, I’m not sure how or why they think a bunch of random degrees is going to help them in law school
admissions. Gives rich kid perpetual student vibes.

True. I had an Olympian in my Harvard law school class. Most of the students were the valedictorian or salutatorian of their college. It takes a lot more than just grades and lsat to get into a top law school. Five years ago Dean Manning (HLS) told me that almost all of the incoming class had taken at least two years off between undergrad and law school. Many then went to European schools for the next two years, some lucky ones on Marshalls; Rhodes, Fulbrights or they pick up an economics degree at Let’s See Europe (London school of economics). A number went to the less costly German universities. I was a lowly paralegal for my time of, earning money for law school

^”time off”. I apologize for the typos. I am tapping on a small phone in bed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Professor here...agree both are great options and the student should look at specific faculty profiles and/or evaluate where they'll be happiest.

Botb are great. My UVA grad is doing a doctorate (DPhil) at Oxford right now.

When I was looking at graduate programs, I was warned that although a certain Oxbridge college had the best stash of materials for my chosen topic, no U.S. institution was going to hire me to teach with a DPhil. I was shocked, but it was my department chair, so he clearly knew about hiring.

Has that changed, or is your kid planning to do something else with their degree?

Definitely correct. There are over a hundred libraries at Oxford, the Bodlein being the most famous and one of the oldest in Europe. Most if the libraries have foreign language collections that no one else does. DC currently is prepping for the lsat. Yes the masters work ties in with law

Joint JD/PhD program, maybe?

That’s 9 yers of education after college (more than a surgeon with residency) to do… what?? I’m a lawyer. A patent attorney might want a masters in a technical field. Or a JD/MBA. Besides that, you either don’t need the JD or don’t need the post grad degree. All, I see is a serious amount of family wealth, or a serious amount of debt. And someone over 30 who has never had a real job.

1) no seven years. The MPhil is two - then because the DPhil is a development of the thesis only two years. The lsat gets worked in there on the side. Then three years law
2). See the point above about the Justices having MPhils or DPhils from Oxford and. Am ridge. You do need an oomph factor if applying as a white female to top law school. The thesis should be published at least in an America law review whike applying to law school = huge oomph
3). No serious wealth. Full ride scholarship with living allowance and flights taken care of
4) she currently has a job working as a researcher/writer at an obscene amount of money. She’s been doing that for the last three years.Between that snd y
The scholarships we pay nothing. She has only $8,000 in debt from UVA (FAFSA unsubsidized monies) and is using the writing job to pay that down

Interesting. Which law schools require that “oomph” factor? I know kids in recent years who’ve got to law school at Georgetown, Penn, Berkeley and UMich, all of them doing so either right after graduating undergrad in 4 years or graduating undergrad a year early. One got a full ride to one of those schools. All UMC white females & males. No real work experience, no major extracurriculars & no scholarships like the one your child has.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Professor here...agree both are great options and the student should look at specific faculty profiles and/or evaluate where they'll be happiest.

Botb are great. My UVA grad is doing a doctorate (DPhil) at Oxford right now.

When I was looking at graduate programs, I was warned that although a certain Oxbridge college had the best stash of materials for my chosen topic, no U.S. institution was going to hire me to teach with a DPhil. I was shocked, but it was my department chair, so he clearly knew about hiring.

Has that changed, or is your kid planning to do something else with their degree?

Definitely correct. There are over a hundred libraries at Oxford, the Bodlein being the most famous and one of the oldest in Europe. Most if the libraries have foreign language collections that no one else does. DC currently is prepping for the lsat. Yes the masters work ties in with law

So you’re 29 (at the earliest) when you start making real money?
Joint JD/PhD program, maybe?

That’s 9 yers of education after college (more than a surgeon with residency) to do… what?? I’m a lawyer. A patent attorney might want a masters in a technical field. Or a JD/MBA. Besides that, you either don’t need the JD or don’t need the post grad degree. All, I see is a serious amount of family wealth, or a serious amount of debt. And someone over 30 who has never had a real job.

1) no seven years. The MPhil is two - then because the DPhil is a development of the thesis only two years. The lsat gets worked in there on the side. Then three years law
2). See the point above about the Justices having MPhils or DPhils from Oxford and. Am ridge. You do need an oomph factor if applying as a white female to top law school. The thesis should be published at least in an America law review whike applying to law school = huge oomph
3). No serious wealth. Full ride scholarship with living allowance and flights taken care of
4) she currently has a job working as a researcher/writer at an obscene amount of money. She’s been doing that for the last three years.Between that snd y
The scholarships we pay nothing. She has only $8,000 in debt from UVA (FAFSA unsubsidized monies) and is using the writing job to pay that down

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Professor here...agree both are great options and the student should look at specific faculty profiles and/or evaluate where they'll be happiest.

Botb are great. My UVA grad is doing a doctorate (DPhil) at Oxford right now.

Cambridge > Oxford

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The cheapest option, because a PhD in the Humanities isn't going to generate a lot of income. And if money is not an issue, then visit both and choose based on vibe.

Also, stop dumping on the happy parent with the Oxford kid - it takes a lot to get in, and they are understandably proud. It's an anonymous forum, it's all right to boast.

Boasting about an obviously impressive achievement is a fine. Oxford parent has taken over the thread. I’m sure Op would like more info than a sample size of one.

Oxford parent is more interesting than the original topic anyway so it's fine by me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Professor here...agree both are great options and the student should look at specific faculty profiles and/or evaluate where they'll be happiest.

Botb are great. My UVA grad is doing a doctorate (DPhil) at Oxford right now.

When I was looking at graduate programs, I was warned that although a certain Oxbridge college had the best stash of materials for my chosen topic, no U.S. institution was going to hire me to teach with a DPhil. I was shocked, but it was my department chair, so he clearly knew about hiring.

Has that changed, or is your kid planning to do something else with their degree?

Definitely correct. There are over a hundred libraries at Oxford, the Bodlein being the most famous and one of the oldest in Europe. Most if the libraries have foreign language collections that no one else does. DC currently is prepping for the lsat. Yes the masters work ties in with law

Uh, you spelled it wrong. You're on here most constantly, trolling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Professor here...agree both are great options and the student should look at specific faculty profiles and/or evaluate where they'll be happiest.

Botb are great. My UVA grad is doing a doctorate (DPhil) at Oxford right now.

When I was looking at graduate programs, I was warned that although a certain Oxbridge college had the best stash of materials for my chosen topic, no U.S. institution was going to hire me to teach with a DPhil. I was shocked, but it was my department chair, so he clearly knew about hiring.

Has that changed, or is your kid planning to do something else with their degree?

Definitely correct. There are over a hundred libraries at Oxford, the Bodlein being the most famous and one of the oldest in Europe. Most if the libraries have foreign language collections that no one else does. DC currently is prepping for the lsat. Yes the masters work ties in with law

Joint JD/PhD program, maybe?

That’s 9 yers of education after college (more than a surgeon with residency) to do… what?? I’m a lawyer. A patent attorney might want a masters in a technical field. Or a JD/MBA. Besides that, you either don’t need the JD or don’t need the post grad degree. All, I see is a serious amount of family wealth, or a serious amount of debt. And someone over 30 who has never had a real job.

1) no 7 years. The MPhil is two - then because the DPhil is a development of the thesis only two years. The lsat gets worked in there on the side. Then three years law
2). See the point above about the Justices having MPhils or DPhils from Oxford and. Am ridge. You do need an oomph factor if applying as a white female to top law school. The thesis should be published at least in an America law review whike applying to law school = huge oomph
3). No serious wealth. Full ride scholarship with living allowance and flights taken care of
4) she currently has a job working as a researcher/writer at an obscene amount of money. She’s been doing that for the last three years.Between that snd y
The scholarships we pay nothing. She has only $8,000 in debt from UVA (FAFSA unsubsidized monies) and is using the writing job to pay that down[/