National Service/Military Academies?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As PP said, all states have the same number of nominations, so assuming enough students ask, MD VA and DC would all nominate the same number.

When I applied to West Point, I got nominations from both senators and my congressman.

So in terms of numbers, is it right that someone from a small state like MD (or non-state like DC) would stand a better chance, numerically, of getting a nomination than if they lived in California or NY?

Numerically you have a better chance of getting a Senatorial nomination, since every state has 2 Senators regardless of population. Each Congressional district has roughly the same population so it makes no difference whether you live in the 4th district of Maryland or the 38th district of California in terms of sheer numbers. It might be the case that the competition is tougher in particular districts based on the level of interest in that area in attending the academies, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As PP said, all states have the same number of nominations, so assuming enough students ask, MD VA and DC would all nominate the same number.

When I applied to West Point, I got nominations from both senators and my congressman.

So in terms of numbers, is it right that someone from a small state like MD (or non-state like DC) would stand a better chance, numerically, of getting a nomination than if they lived in California or NY?

Numerically you have a better chance of getting a Senatorial nomination, since every state has 2 Senators regardless of population. Each Congressional district has roughly the same population so it makes no difference whether you live in the 4th district of Maryland or the 38th district of California in terms of sheer numbers. It might be the case that the competition is tougher in particular districts based on the level of interest in that area in attending the academies, though.

Thanks. I guess I'm confused by the pp's statemetn that "all nominate the same number." I took that to mean a grand total of, for example, X from each state. If that were the case, coming from a smaller state would be an advantage. But I guess what you're saying is that each senator/congressman gets X number?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Numerically you have a better chance of getting a Senatorial nomination, since every state has 2 Senators regardless of population. Each Congressional district has roughly the same population so it makes no difference whether you live in the 4th district of Maryland or the 38th district of California in terms of sheer numbers. It might be the case that the competition is tougher in particular districts based on the level of interest in that area in attending the academies, though.

Thanks. I guess I'm confused by the pp's statemetn that "all nominate the same number." I took that to mean a grand total of, for example, X from each state. If that were the case, coming from a smaller state would be an advantage. But I guess what you're saying is that each senator/congressman gets X number?

That's correct. I don't know exactly what the number is right now. It might be something like 10. Not all ten get in. They become the applicant pool for the respective academies, along with those who get nominations via other sources as a PP mentioned (children of KIA servicemembers or Medal of Honor winners, some recruited athletes, etc..)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Re the PP below -- this is all accurate. Please remember that every Cadet/Mid is also, from the date of execution of the oath, an active-duty member of the US Armed Forces. Issues with local police? Reportable, and the Academies will find out. Essentially the Cadet/Mis/Plebe summer and the entire 4th Class/First year period is conducted on basic-training discipline. Serious disciplinary infractions (what the services, not you, regard as serious) can be punished by criminal prosecution. The Cadets/Mids are paid while in the Academies, as junior/mid enlistees (the cash is largely held in a forced savings system until graduation). There are active-duty assignments most of each summer, and these are required. The Cadet's/Mid's records are considered military personnel records, not strictly Buckley Amendment, and much will be available to future commanding officers. Unhappy? Kid may not be able to drop out, and if permitted to drop out, may owe a simply staggering refund for deemed value, may owe active or reserve time as an enlistee, and leaving w/o being successfully commissioned may impose eligibility issues later on as to civilian Federal employment. Kid has a personal issue while a Cadet/Mid? There are limitations on Academy physician/counselor/chaplain privacy rights, and the Cadet/Mid command is often notified. Want to volunteer for your Democratic member of Congress's campaign? Guess what -- you're subject to the Hatch Act. The service obligation ranges from six to eight years active duty, plus additional obligations for those who are trained to fly, and there are recall/IRR obligations that can last for ten further years. Decided on a major? Not so fast -- allocations of majors are subject to the needs and discretion of the service, so for instance a certain percentage of USMA graduates are required to be engineers. A kid doesn't go to a service academy -- a kid joins the service as a service academy Cadet/Mid. These are excellent colleges, but in each case they are also active-duty military bases, and the students are members of the service, subject to the orders of the command.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sister graduated from the USAFA. The academies have an exchange program between them so she did a semester at West Point (hated it - very dark, depressing, violent) and a semester at USNA (not as depressing but not welcoming toward women). She did experience some gender discrimination at USAF. Guys broke into her room at night to grope her and her roommate at least once. She got her degree and served her five years. She says if she had to do it again she wouldn't but at the same time the military culture is ingrained in her.

West Point as "dark, depressing"?!?!?

Friends and family members who have attended all three schools.

IMO, the three schools are visually very representative of their services. West Point is gray stone, sitting high on the Hudson River. Beautiful, imposing and yes, dark in the winter. Reminds me of the solidness of an army. USAFA is in the mountains. Chapel is visual reminder of contrails of jets aiming skyward. USNA, for those of you that have been there, appropriately sits on the water. White buildings, blue-ish roofs emblematic of the sea.

Make no doubt about it, this is the military and they are not only educating these young men and women, they are preparing them to defend the nation. And, after 10yrs at war, no young person should enter one of these academies thinking that there isn't at least a halfway decent chance of being in a combat zone at some point. Yes, sneaking a pizza in is a major rule breaker. A family member got significant demerits and had to "walk tours" when he was caught kissing another (female) midshipman. There are rules and uniforms and codes of honor that are taken seriously.

They are all beautiful places with amazing educations. They've also had their share of honor problems over the past decade with incidents of sexual misconduct and cheating. Things that likely happen at colleges all over this country, but make front page news because these are the military academies and we expect more of these future officers.

Your obligation starts in your junior year. You can leave prior to that. Most West Pointers we had at USNA really liked it, but said that academically USNA was harder (at least in engineering, not sure about the rest). Some would have loved to stay. The USAFA ones were more of a mixed bag in that sense.

Keep in mind that Marines come out of USNA, so it's not just ships/sea/sailors.

--USNA '94, USMC

[Anonymous]

On competitiveness of Congressional nominations - it is kind of a numbers game in that some states/Congressional jurisdictions are more competitive than others but, as people noted above, it has more to do with the level of interest in that state than population per se. (That said, North Dakota is an awesome place to move to if you'd like a nomination...)

MD and the Congressional districts with good schools like MoCo and AA county is really competitive to get a nomination, because the salience of USNA is quite high, being local. Virginia has a ton of kids from military families, and academy alumnae, who encourage it. In DC, in contrast, I gather Holmes Norton's office has to actively encourage applications and its much less competitive.

[Anonymous]

For those in the know, how would you rank the academies in terms of overall education received?

[Anonymous]

Both USNA and USMA are ranked in the top 20 liberal arts colleges, according to US News. I think the USNA is ranked 14th.

[Anonymous]

If math isn't your best subject, but you have an otherwise excellent application/package and you get in, will it be tough to handle the academic workload. I have heard that the education tends to be math-centric (but my main source is from the Air Force Academy).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Numerically you have a better chance of getting a Senatorial nomination, since every state has 2 Senators regardless of population. Each Congressional district has roughly the same population so it makes no difference whether you live in the 4th district of Maryland or the 38th district of California in terms of sheer numbers. It might be the case that the competition is tougher in particular districts based on the level of interest in that area in attending the academies, though.

Thanks. I guess I'm confused by the pp's statemetn that "all nominate the same number." I took that to mean a grand total of, for example, X from each state. If that were the case, coming from a smaller state would be an advantage. But I guess what you're saying is that each senator/congressman gets X number?

That's correct. I don't know exactly what the number is right now. It might be something like 10. Not all ten get in. They become the applicant pool for the respective academies, along with those who get nominations via other sources as a PP mentioned (children of KIA servicemembers or Medal of Honor winners, some recruited athletes, etc..)

From what I remember, each Congressman can only have 5 students ATTENDING each service academy at one time. I don't think there is a specific limitation on NOMINATIONS they may make, but most limit it to 10 per academy (one academcy doesn't require nominations). That would make about 40 nominations available per year for each senator and representatives, for a total of 120 nominations. From what I remember, they try to coordinate to make sure as many people gets nominated that have an actual shot of getting in.

Also, if you don't get nominated from your Congressman, but your stats put you firmly in the running because you are in a popular state for applicants, the Office of the Vice President has additional nominations and the academies themselves will take a handful of appointments without a nomination. From what I heard, it is very rare for a candidate that is likely for admission not to be able to get a nomination, though it may not be their first choice academy.

[Anonymous]

Has anyone heard from any of the academies for 2013-14?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone heard from any of the academies for 2013-14?

The academies don't have an early decision/action program. Acceptances are typically sent later in the spring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read that as apply to all 3 potential nominators -- both Senators and your congressperson, as it is difficult to get one to nominate you.

Unless, of course, you live in DC.

Amen. The only chance my son has of going to an academy is that he will have great SAT scores and we live in DC. Grades are shaky, but he's brilliant. Tests off the charts. I can't imagine many DC kids try to go to the academies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone heard from any of the academies for 2013-14?

And what were your kid's grades/scores like?

[Anonymous]

There are some misstatements or misunderstandings on nominations.
Each senator and each congressman can make 10 nominations per year.
Each moc can have 5 nominated students at an academy at any given time.
You can not get a moc nom from outside your district.
A small state with one rep and two senators can nominate 30 per academy per year and are generally less competitive
States like Maryland and Virginia with many service oriented residents are highly competitive, versus a Wyoming.
Unused noms go back to the superintendent for use from the national pool
Children of service members compete for presidential noms as well as moc noms
DC has one "moc" so ehn gets 10 noms. There are no senate noms for DC
A nom in not an appointment. It's necessary but the school still has to accept the candidate, plus pass medical and fitness standards
DC sent 3 to USMA and 2 to USNA for 13, a high number by historical standards, showing there were open in attendance slots from prior years. That says next year could be tougher than in the past (not to get a nom, but to get an appointment)

Hope this clarifies the nom questions

[Anonymous]

When does the application process start?