What was the first Religion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree fundamentally -- you can't have a discussion about this without defining "religion." I didn't see anything in that long post about aborigines that has anything to do with "religion."

Uh... really? Just because what was described doesn't look like Sunday School?

point out to me where anything described in that posts constitutes "religion." The ability to kill kangaroos aside, I didn't see anything that meets the definition of religion-- not that they didn't have one. Perhaps that PP could elaborate?

Just because their religious beliefs and practices are not compartmentalized as we are in every aspect of modern Western life, does not mean they do not hold and practice profoundly religious beliefs. Religion refers to bond of social relations uniting individuals within a coherent cosmological world view.

- Cosmological creation beliefs in Dream Time stories
- Spiritual duties to preserving their ancestral lands
- Spiritual duties to live in right relationship with family/ clan members
- Strict religious Rules for who can marry who designed to respect their religious beliefs and culture
- Religious Rules for who can eat what and in what order to respect for different social functions

Non Western religions tend to focus on being part of collective life and culture as intimately connected to sacred natural environment rather than on individual experiences and beliefs within objectified religious traditions. They see themselves as spiritual custodians of nature rather than as having dominion over it.

fine, but I'm not sure "spirituality" is the same thing as "religion." We had a long thread on this awhile back. Some people said they were religious but not spiritual. Many said they were spiritual but not religious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree fundamentally -- you can't have a discussion about this without defining "religion." I didn't see anything in that long post about aborigines that has anything to do with "religion."

Uh... really? Just because what was described doesn't look like Sunday School?

point out to me where anything described in that posts constitutes "religion." The ability to kill kangaroos aside, I didn't see anything that meets the definition of religion-- not that they didn't have one. Perhaps that PP could elaborate?

Just because their religious beliefs and practices are not compartmentalized as we are in every aspect of modern Western life, does not mean they do not hold and practice profoundly religious beliefs. Religion refers to bond of social relations uniting individuals within a coherent cosmological world view.

- Cosmological creation beliefs in Dream Time stories
- Spiritual duties to preserving their ancestral lands
- Spiritual duties to live in right relationship with family/ clan members
- Strict religious Rules for who can marry who designed to respect their religious beliefs and culture
- Religious Rules for who can eat what and in what order to respect for different social functions

Non Western religions tend to focus on being part of collective life and culture as intimately connected to sacred natural environment rather than on individual experiences and beliefs within objectified religious traditions. They see themselves as spiritual custodians of nature rather than as having dominion over it.

fine, but I'm not sure "spirituality" is the same thing as "religion." We had a long thread on this awhile back. Some people said they were religious but not spiritual. Many said they were spiritual but not religious.

Yes That is true. My own spouse makes that distinction all the time 😀

However, for Australian Aborigines and other non Western peoples living according to traditional beliefs and customs in contemporary settings, they seem to be inextricably linked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The oldest burial that had funerary rites was from 100k years ago. There are probably older sites that haven't been found.

Was this by the San People in Southern Africa ? Do you know more about what the rites entailed?

I have visited an amazing San cave with “art” depicting some animals that are now extinct. (Not sure they saw it as art but as a tool to communicate where to hunt or something else). When I asked local Africans they thought the San had died out. Do they have living culture somewhere in Africa?

I think funerary rites tell us a lot about deeply held beliefs and values.

It's a site in Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qafzeh_Cave. The burials appear to be intentional with grave goods. I'm sure older exist in Africa, but Israel is probably the best excavated place in the world

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree fundamentally -- you can't have a discussion about this without defining "religion." I didn't see anything in that long post about aborigines that has anything to do with "religion."

Uh... really? Just because what was described doesn't look like Sunday School?

point out to me where anything described in that posts constitutes "religion." The ability to kill kangaroos aside, I didn't see anything that meets the definition of religion-- not that they didn't have one. Perhaps that PP could elaborate?

Just because their religious beliefs and practices are not compartmentalized as we are in every aspect of modern Western life, does not mean they do not hold and practice profoundly religious beliefs. Religion refers to bond of social relations uniting individuals within a coherent cosmological world view.

- Cosmological creation beliefs in Dream Time stories
- Spiritual duties to preserving their ancestral lands
- Spiritual duties to live in right relationship with family/ clan members
- Strict religious Rules for who can marry who designed to respect their religious beliefs and culture
- Religious Rules for who can eat what and in what order to respect for different social functions

Non Western religions tend to focus on being part of collective life and culture as intimately connected to sacred natural environment rather than on individual experiences and beliefs within objectified religious traditions. They see themselves as spiritual custodians of nature rather than as having dominion over it.

fine, but I'm not sure "spirituality" is the same thing as "religion." We had a long thread on this awhile back. Some people said they were religious but not spiritual. Many said they were spiritual but not religious.

There is no way to reconstruct stone age beliefs. There is every chance that there were belief systems that qualified as religion, but we'll never really know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree fundamentally -- you can't have a discussion about this without defining "religion." I didn't see anything in that long post about aborigines that has anything to do with "religion."

Uh... really? Just because what was described doesn't look like Sunday School?

point out to me where anything described in that posts constitutes "religion." The ability to kill kangaroos aside, I didn't see anything that meets the definition of religion-- not that they didn't have one. Perhaps that PP could elaborate?

Just because their religious beliefs and practices are not compartmentalized as we are in every aspect of modern Western life, does not mean they do not hold and practice profoundly religious beliefs. Religion refers to bond of social relations uniting individuals within a coherent cosmological world view.

- Cosmological creation beliefs in Dream Time stories
- Spiritual duties to preserving their ancestral lands
- Spiritual duties to live in right relationship with family/ clan members
- Strict religious Rules for who can marry who designed to respect their religious beliefs and culture
- Religious Rules for who can eat what and in what order to respect for different social functions

Non Western religions tend to focus on being part of collective life and culture as intimately connected to sacred natural environment rather than on individual experiences and beliefs within objectified religious traditions. They see themselves as spiritual custodians of nature rather than as having dominion over it.

fine, but I'm not sure "spirituality" is the same thing as "religion." We had a long thread on this awhile back. Some people said they were religious but not spiritual. Many said they were spiritual but not religious.

There is no way to reconstruct stone age beliefs. There is every chance that there were belief systems that qualified as religion, but we'll never really know.

You don’t have to reconstruct “Stone Age beliefs” among Australian Aborigines (who prefer to be known as First Nations of Australia now) - there are many living First Nation clans living traditional lives on their own land in Arnhemland, Northern Territory. In fact: aboriginal and Torres straight islanders traditional rights and interests in land are formally recognized for over 50% of Australian land mass. Their ongoing religious and spiritual connection to land is officially recognized as part of ongoing reconciliation measures. Native title includes rights to land and waters held by indigenous Australians in recognition of the ongoing importance of their religious and cultural practices related to sacredness of their traditional lands .

In 1984 a group of Pintipi people who were living a traditional desert hunter father life were tracked down in the Gibson Desert in Western Australia and had never had contact with Europeans prior.

Australian Aborigines we’re decimated in the south East but have ongoing living traditions in many parts of Australia.

[Anonymous]

Do you think aboriginal people would survive if other nations didn't let them? I think about this related to the Amish often in America. They basically moved to the nation that offered the most protection in battle. Seems counterintuitive to their religion and them taking part in the nation's protection. Also, the native Americans. I think about their religion and how it's counter to what we see as thriving in the world today. But maybe with their balanced life they would survive nonetheless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree fundamentally -- you can't have a discussion about this without defining "religion." I didn't see anything in that long post about aborigines that has anything to do with "religion."

Uh... really? Just because what was described doesn't look like Sunday School?

point out to me where anything described in that posts constitutes "religion." The ability to kill kangaroos aside, I didn't see anything that meets the definition of religion-- not that they didn't have one. Perhaps that PP could elaborate?

Just because their religious beliefs and practices are not compartmentalized as we are in every aspect of modern Western life, does not mean they do not hold and practice profoundly religious beliefs. Religion refers to bond of social relations uniting individuals within a coherent cosmological world view.

- Cosmological creation beliefs in Dream Time stories
- Spiritual duties to preserving their ancestral lands
- Spiritual duties to live in right relationship with family/ clan members
- Strict religious Rules for who can marry who designed to respect their religious beliefs and culture
- Religious Rules for who can eat what and in what order to respect for different social functions

Non Western religions tend to focus on being part of collective life and culture as intimately connected to sacred natural environment rather than on individual experiences and beliefs within objectified religious traditions. They see themselves as spiritual custodians of nature rather than as having dominion over it.

fine, but I'm not sure "spirituality" is the same thing as "religion." We had a long thread on this awhile back. Some people said they were religious but not spiritual. Many said they were spiritual but not religious.

There is no way to reconstruct stone age beliefs. There is every chance that there were belief systems that qualified as religion, but we'll never really know.

You don’t have to reconstruct “Stone Age beliefs” among Australian Aborigines (who prefer to be known as First Nations of Australia now) - there are many living First Nation clans living traditional lives on their own land in Arnhemland, Northern Territory. In fact: aboriginal and Torres straight islanders traditional rights and interests in land are formally recognized for over 50% of Australian land mass. Their ongoing religious and spiritual connection to land is officially recognized as part of ongoing reconciliation measures. Native title includes rights to land and waters held by indigenous Australians in recognition of the ongoing importance of their religious and cultural practices related to sacredness of their traditional lands .

In 1984 a group of Pintipi people who were living a traditional desert hunter father life were tracked down in the Gibson Desert in Western Australia and had never had contact with Europeans prior.

Australian Aborigines we’re decimated in the south East but have ongoing living traditions in many parts of Australia.

Sure, but there were people mole elsewhere in the world for tens of thousands of years before aboriginals reached Australia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree fundamentally -- you can't have a discussion about this without defining "religion." I didn't see anything in that long post about aborigines that has anything to do with "religion."

Uh... really? Just because what was described doesn't look like Sunday School?

point out to me where anything described in that posts constitutes "religion." The ability to kill kangaroos aside, I didn't see anything that meets the definition of religion-- not that they didn't have one. Perhaps that PP could elaborate?

Just because their religious beliefs and practices are not compartmentalized as we are in every aspect of modern Western life, does not mean they do not hold and practice profoundly religious beliefs. Religion refers to bond of social relations uniting individuals within a coherent cosmological world view.

- Cosmological creation beliefs in Dream Time stories
- Spiritual duties to preserving their ancestral lands
- Spiritual duties to live in right relationship with family/ clan members
- Strict religious Rules for who can marry who designed to respect their religious beliefs and culture
- Religious Rules for who can eat what and in what order to respect for different social functions

Non Western religions tend to focus on being part of collective life and culture as intimately connected to sacred natural environment rather than on individual experiences and beliefs within objectified religious traditions. They see themselves as spiritual custodians of nature rather than as having dominion over it.

fine, but I'm not sure "spirituality" is the same thing as "religion." We had a long thread on this awhile back. Some people said they were religious but not spiritual. Many said they were spiritual but not religious.

There is no way to reconstruct stone age beliefs. There is every chance that there were belief systems that qualified as religion, but we'll never really know.

You don’t have to reconstruct “Stone Age beliefs” among Australian Aborigines (who prefer to be known as First Nations of Australia now) - there are many living First Nation clans living traditional lives on their own land in Arnhemland, Northern Territory. In fact: aboriginal and Torres straight islanders traditional rights and interests in land are formally recognized for over 50% of Australian land mass. Their ongoing religious and spiritual connection to land is officially recognized as part of ongoing reconciliation measures. Native title includes rights to land and waters held by indigenous Australians in recognition of the ongoing importance of their religious and cultural practices related to sacredness of their traditional lands .

In 1984 a group of Pintipi people who were living a traditional desert hunter father life were tracked down in the Gibson Desert in Western Australia and had never had contact with Europeans prior.

Australian Aborigines we’re decimated in the south East but have ongoing living traditions in many parts of Australia.

Sure, but there were people mole elsewhere in the world for tens of thousands of years before aboriginals reached Australia.

Yes that true - we all descend from Africa. Earliest people probably the San but I am not aware of their having living continuous culture - which is why I asked who ever posted about the 100k funerary rites about that earlier on.

I also posted earlier on that it does not matter who has the oldest religion but we should focus on what we can learn from extremely old living cultures. There seem to be some common themes within indigenous peoples’ spiritual/ Religious beliefs and practices regarding: sacredness of natural environment/ not taking more than you need from nature and being grateful for what you take/ focus on community and collective well being over individual ego/ paying respect to ancestors/ and making time for creative rituals to celebrate major passages of life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Urg did a flip off a cliff at the same time thunder struck, everyone thought he was so cool and he became a God to the people. Urg worship continued for almost 50 years after his death but fizzled out when people getting sun burns blamed a jealous Sun.

In Urg We Trust!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree fundamentally -- you can't have a discussion about this without defining "religion." I didn't see anything in that long post about aborigines that has anything to do with "religion."

Uh... really? Just because what was described doesn't look like Sunday School?

point out to me where anything described in that posts constitutes "religion." The ability to kill kangaroos aside, I didn't see anything that meets the definition of religion-- not that they didn't have one. Perhaps that PP could elaborate?

Just because their religious beliefs and practices are not compartmentalized as we are in every aspect of modern Western life, does not mean they do not hold and practice profoundly religious beliefs. Religion refers to bond of social relations uniting individuals within a coherent cosmological world view.

- Cosmological creation beliefs in Dream Time stories
- Spiritual duties to preserving their ancestral lands
- Spiritual duties to live in right relationship with family/ clan members
- Strict religious Rules for who can marry who designed to respect their religious beliefs and culture
- Religious Rules for who can eat what and in what order to respect for different social functions

Non Western religions tend to focus on being part of collective life and culture as intimately connected to sacred natural environment rather than on individual experiences and beliefs within objectified religious traditions. They see themselves as spiritual custodians of nature rather than as having dominion over it.

fine, but I'm not sure "spirituality" is the same thing as "religion." We had a long thread on this awhile back. Some people said they were religious but not spiritual. Many said they were spiritual but not religious.

There is no way to reconstruct stone age beliefs. There is every chance that there were belief systems that qualified as religion, but we'll never really know.

You don’t have to reconstruct “Stone Age beliefs” among Australian Aborigines (who prefer to be known as First Nations of Australia now) - there are many living First Nation clans living traditional lives on their own land in Arnhemland, Northern Territory. In fact: aboriginal and Torres straight islanders traditional rights and interests in land are formally recognized for over 50% of Australian land mass. Their ongoing religious and spiritual connection to land is officially recognized as part of ongoing reconciliation measures. Native title includes rights to land and waters held by indigenous Australians in recognition of the ongoing importance of their religious and cultural practices related to sacredness of their traditional lands .

In 1984 a group of Pintipi people who were living a traditional desert hunter father life were tracked down in the Gibson Desert in Western Australia and had never had contact with Europeans prior.

Australian Aborigines we’re decimated in the south East but have ongoing living traditions in many parts of Australia.

Sure, but there were people mole elsewhere in the world for tens of thousands of years before aboriginals reached Australia.

Yes that true - we all descend from Africa. Earliest people probably the San but I am not aware of their having living continuous culture - which is why I asked who ever posted about the 100k funerary rites about that earlier on.

I also posted earlier on that it does not matter who has the oldest religion but we should focus on what we can learn from extremely old living cultures. There seem to be some common themes within indigenous peoples’ spiritual/ Religious beliefs and practices regarding: sacredness of natural environment/ not taking more than you need from nature and being grateful for what you take/ focus on community and collective well being over individual ego/ paying respect to ancestors/ and making time for creative rituals to celebrate major passages of life.

So time is definitely relative … it turns out our own galaxy The Milky Way is a baby galaxy … I believe in both an infinite loving God who transcends time and space and science … Astro physicists can explain how the Big Bang unfolded (even if some assumptions are being turned upside down) but not how something came out nothing.

These relatively old living cultures and religions point us towards reverence for the majesty of the Great Mystery that surrounds us … I appreciate that many atheists and agnostics also take time to marvel at the immense beauty and scale of our ever expanding Universe …



NASA astronomers "discovered the impossible" about the universe
By Li Cohen, 6 hrs ago
Scientists finally got a glimpse of what the universe looked like more than 13 billion years ago. And what they found could change everything we know about the dawn of the universe.
When the first images from the James Webb Space Telescope were released last July, astronomers got their earliest look at cosmo history yet, seeing captured images of what the universe looks like billions of light years away. They expected to maybe see some " tiny, young, baby galaxies ." What they found, however, was something far greater – six massive galaxies dating back about 13.1 billion years that appeared to be just as old as the Milky Way is now.

"These objects are way more massive than anyone expected," astronomer Joel Leja said. "...We've discovered galaxies as mature as our own in what was previously understood to be the dawn of the universe."

https://share.newsbreak.com/353sk3tk

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pagan religions. Reverence for earth, sun, moon.

Hinduism or what the name of it was before it was labeled as Hinduism, Sanatana Dharma, is likely the oldest continuously practiced pagan religion.

?why do you say it's "pagan," You're not using that pejoratively I hope?

You seem unnecessarily triggered.

Perhaps, but can you didn't answer the question

Can you didn't learn how to talk

sorry, that was a typo So you weren't using "pagan" in any pejorative sense, yes?

Nobody other than you took it that way. Hence my observation that you seem unnecessarily triggered. Now you continue to be unnecessarily fixated on something that is actually nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pagan religions. Reverence for earth, sun, moon.

Hinduism or what the name of it was before it was labeled as Hinduism, Sanatana Dharma, is likely the oldest continuously practiced pagan religion.

?why do you say it's "pagan," You're not using that pejoratively I hope?

You seem unnecessarily triggered.

Perhaps, but can you didn't answer the question

Can you didn't learn how to talk

sorry, that was a typo So you weren't using "pagan" in any pejorative sense, yes?

Nobody other than you took it that way. Hence my observation that you seem unnecessarily triggered. Now you continue to be unnecessarily fixated on something that is actually nothing.

ok, so that's a "no" then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pagan religions. Reverence for earth, sun, moon.

Hinduism or what the name of it was before it was labeled as Hinduism, Sanatana Dharma, is likely the oldest continuously practiced pagan religion.

? Hinduism isn't pagan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pagan religions. Reverence for earth, sun, moon.

Hinduism or what the name of it was before it was labeled as Hinduism, Sanatana Dharma, is likely the oldest continuously practiced pagan religion.

?why do you say it's "pagan," You're not using that pejoratively I hope?

You seem unnecessarily triggered.

Perhaps, but can you didn't answer the question

Can you didn't learn how to talk

sorry, that was a typo So you weren't using "pagan" in any pejorative sense, yes?

Nobody other than you took it that way. Hence my observation that you seem unnecessarily triggered. Now you continue to be unnecessarily fixated on something that is actually nothing.

ok, so that's a "no" then?

Yep - to Pagan right ! 😀

[Anonymous]

It wasn’t one of the Abrahamic ones, right?

I wonder why that is, since one of those is the true religion.