Is anyone’s sleepaway camp requiring the bivalent booster?

[Anonymous]

My kids go to sleepaway camp in Maine. Neither required it last year, but highly suggested and did several rounds of mandatory tests.

So I’m pretty sure neither of their camps will require it this year, no idea what the testing policy will be. They haven’t put out any info

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP back. Thank you to those who responded. For those whose camps are requiring it, have they said why? Unless everyone gets boosted a month before camp, it is not going to do anything to protect the camp community from transmission (and even a month before the effect is limited).

They don't have to.

Don't send your kid.

It's a weed out, use your brain. These are businesses. They need kids to attend. They want to minimize the outbreaks. Parents who care about whether their kid gets and spreads covid will attend the others will go else where.

Is this a perfect solution of course not and they know that.

If you don't like it go to another camp.

While I don't necessarily disagree with you, the camp ultimately gets final say here.

You should let them know where you stand and take your money elsewhere. If enough customers feel the same we, they may decide to take another look at this requirement.

Not a big deal, plenty of good options out there.

Keep us up to date on how things work out and what you ultimately decide to do.

Good luck!



This. Even if the booster is less effective by the time the kid goes to camp, requiring boosters means that the kids at the camp will overall be more protected against covid generally. Also, people who are fully vaccinated are more likely to take reasonable precautions against covid generally and therefore are less likely to send their kids to camp with covid. Finally, the policy has the effect of weeding out anti-vax covid-deniers who are more likely to bring covid into the camp.

If anyone is inclined to respond that some source now says none of this thinking is correct, include a link to the studies supporting your position or I’m not going to bother responding.

OP back again. I would have written almost this exact same thing 18 months ago. I was all for Covid vaccine mandates for awhile. The problem is that the data no longer supports these arguments. Within a couple months, the vaccine provides virtually no protection from infection or transmission, so it's not protecting communities, except from lots of hospitalizations in vulnerable people. It does continue to provide great protection from severe disease--but very few kids are at risk of severe disease, and data also suggests that for them, the protection from a vaccine dose or infection--and especially from both--lasts a long time. Healthy kids don't need boosters every 6 months (maybe not even every year) to protect them from being hospitalized. And we know now that stretching out vaccine doses means that each dose gives you better protection.

I don't have time right now to dig up links but there are tons out there if you google, both scientific papers and news article citing research to support all of this.

Ridiculing people who aren't giving their kids the bivalent vaccine right now is silly. It's a huge proportion of the population, over 90%, even in blue states, and many many of those families gave their kids the primary series. These aren't all "anti-vax covid-denier" people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes our camp in Maine requires it.

My sisters kids go to a camp in a very red state. They are not.
She is not sending them this year.

She must not understand science.

NO she is an actual scientist so yeah she does...

You on the other hand don't. Grow up.

I 100% do and actual scientists and doctors agree with me. Ask her for the actual data on risks and benefits of additional booster shots for healthy kids with two or three prior doses plus covid. This data doesn’t exist. The cdc and fda cannot give it to me and I’ve been asking for a year. Enlighten me and post the data here. You won’t be able to but I’m happy for you to prove me wrong. Literally prove me wrong with facts.

Not the previous poster, but totally unsurprisingly, as the data starts to come in it does show that bivalent boosters decrease the risk of transmission (also, sadly unsurprisingly, that the effectiveness decreases over time)-- by 77% after 1 month and 47% after 2 months. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.01.18.23284739v1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes our camp in Maine requires it.

My sisters kids go to a camp in a very red state. They are not.
She is not sending them this year.

She must not understand science.

NO she is an actual scientist so yeah she does...

You on the other hand don't. Grow up.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes our camp in Maine requires it.

My sisters kids go to a camp in a very red state. They are not.
She is not sending them this year.

She must not understand science.

NO she is an actual scientist so yeah she does...

You on the other hand don't. Grow up.

+1

Thanks for showing up with the +1. I’m still waiting for the data to prove me wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes our camp in Maine requires it.

My sisters kids go to a camp in a very red state. They are not.
She is not sending them this year.

She must not understand science.

NO she is an actual scientist so yeah she does...

You on the other hand don't. Grow up.

I 100% do and actual scientists and doctors agree with me. Ask her for the actual data on risks and benefits of additional booster shots for healthy kids with two or three prior doses plus covid. This data doesn’t exist. The cdc and fda cannot give it to me and I’ve been asking for a year. Enlighten me and post the data here. You won’t be able to but I’m happy for you to prove me wrong. Literally prove me wrong with facts.

Not the previous poster, but totally unsurprisingly, as the data starts to come in it does show that bivalent boosters decrease the risk of transmission (also, sadly unsurprisingly, that the effectiveness decreases over time)-- by 77% after 1 month and 47% after 2 months. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.01.18.23284739v1

I am also asking to weigh that minimal benefit against the risks to healthy kids.
I’m not clear that it’s worth it to mandate it for that minimal and short lasting benefit and lots of real doctors like Paul Offit agree with me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes our camp in Maine requires it.

My sisters kids go to a camp in a very red state. They are not.
She is not sending them this year.

She must not understand science.

NO she is an actual scientist so yeah she does...

You on the other hand don't. Grow up.

I 100% do and actual scientists and doctors agree with me. Ask her for the actual data on risks and benefits of additional booster shots for healthy kids with two or three prior doses plus covid. This data doesn’t exist. The cdc and fda cannot give it to me and I’ve been asking for a year. Enlighten me and post the data here. You won’t be able to but I’m happy for you to prove me wrong. Literally prove me wrong with facts.

Not the previous poster, but totally unsurprisingly, as the data starts to come in it does show that bivalent boosters decrease the risk of transmission (also, sadly unsurprisingly, that the effectiveness decreases over time)-- by 77% after 1 month and 47% after 2 months. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.01.18.23284739v1

that research is observation and discusses infection, not transmission. and prior infection was more effective than boosters anyway!

it’s a complete overreach for a camp to require boosters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes our camp in Maine requires it.

My sisters kids go to a camp in a very red state. They are not.
She is not sending them this year.

She must not understand science.

NO she is an actual scientist so yeah she does...

You on the other hand don't. Grow up.

I 100% do and actual scientists and doctors agree with me. Ask her for the actual data on risks and benefits of additional booster shots for healthy kids with two or three prior doses plus covid. This data doesn’t exist. The cdc and fda cannot give it to me and I’ve been asking for a year. Enlighten me and post the data here. You won’t be able to but I’m happy for you to prove me wrong. Literally prove me wrong with facts.

Not the previous poster, but totally unsurprisingly, as the data starts to come in it does show that bivalent boosters decrease the risk of transmission (also, sadly unsurprisingly, that the effectiveness decreases over time)-- by 77% after 1 month and 47% after 2 months. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.01.18.23284739v1

I am also asking to weigh that minimal benefit against the risks to healthy kids.
I’m not clear that it’s worth it to mandate it for that minimal and short lasting benefit and lots of real doctors like Paul Offit agree with me.

Exactly. I would seriously doubt the judgment of a camp that made my boy (double vaxxed and recovered from Omicron) get a booster. It indicates an inability to properly manage risk, which I don’t think is a good sign in camp leadership. Or, it indicates a sort of small minded groupthink where they believe that “this is what parents want” or they are making a political statement. Also a bad sign.

At this point I would have absolutely no scruples about lying about this if my kid really wanted to go. But more likely I would pick another camp.

[Anonymous]

Among other articles, I sent this recent NYT quote to our camp to which they responded in essence we DGAF.

If you’re young, say you’re 35, 40, you’re otherwise healthy, you’ve already gotten vaccinated and boosted and probably had an infection or two in the past, I think that person is pretty well protected for quite some time,” said Dr. David Ho, a professor of medicine at Columbia University who led one of the antibody studies. “Until more data is available, I would not compel such a person to get an annual vaccination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes our camp in Maine requires it.

My sisters kids go to a camp in a very red state. They are not.
She is not sending them this year.

She must not understand science.

NO she is an actual scientist so yeah she does...

You on the other hand don't. Grow up.

I 100% do and actual scientists and doctors agree with me. Ask her for the actual data on risks and benefits of additional booster shots for healthy kids with two or three prior doses plus covid. This data doesn’t exist. The cdc and fda cannot give it to me and I’ve been asking for a year. Enlighten me and post the data here. You won’t be able to but I’m happy for you to prove me wrong. Literally prove me wrong with facts.

Not the previous poster, but totally unsurprisingly, as the data starts to come in it does show that bivalent boosters decrease the risk of transmission (also, sadly unsurprisingly, that the effectiveness decreases over time)-- by 77% after 1 month and 47% after 2 months. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.01.18.23284739v1

I am also asking to weigh that minimal benefit against the risks to healthy kids.
I’m not clear that it’s worth it to mandate it for that minimal and short lasting benefit and lots of real doctors like Paul Offit agree with me.

OP again, and I agree. This is a nice study but it also shows that infection is more protective, and also only goes out 2 months, with protection dropping a lot between month 1 and 2. I am still not understanding why my kid, who just had Covid and has also had three doses of vaccine, needs to get another before camp. Especially when it then makes a potentially more effective fall booster less useful for said kid.

For those asking why we can't just pick another camp: my kid adored this camp last year and has friends returning, and it is tailored to their interests. We have also paid a large, nonrefundable deposit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Among other articles, I sent this recent NYT quote to our camp to which they responded in essence we DGAF.

If you’re young, say you’re 35, 40, you’re otherwise healthy, you’ve already gotten vaccinated and boosted and probably had an infection or two in the past, I think that person is pretty well protected for quite some time,” said Dr. David Ho, a professor of medicine at Columbia University who led one of the antibody studies. “Until more data is available, I would not compel such a person to get an annual vaccination.

Is there a parent group for the camp? They won’t listen unless it is multiple parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes our camp in Maine requires it.

My sisters kids go to a camp in a very red state. They are not.
She is not sending them this year.

She must not understand science.

NO she is an actual scientist so yeah she does...

You on the other hand don't. Grow up.

I 100% do and actual scientists and doctors agree with me. Ask her for the actual data on risks and benefits of additional booster shots for healthy kids with two or three prior doses plus covid. This data doesn’t exist. The cdc and fda cannot give it to me and I’ve been asking for a year. Enlighten me and post the data here. You won’t be able to but I’m happy for you to prove me wrong. Literally prove me wrong with facts.

Not the previous poster, but totally unsurprisingly, as the data starts to come in it does show that bivalent boosters decrease the risk of transmission (also, sadly unsurprisingly, that the effectiveness decreases over time)-- by 77% after 1 month and 47% after 2 months. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.01.18.23284739v1

I am also asking to weigh that minimal benefit against the risks to healthy kids.
I’m not clear that it’s worth it to mandate it for that minimal and short lasting benefit and lots of real doctors like Paul Offit agree with me.

OP again, and I agree. This is a nice study but it also shows that infection is more protective, and also only goes out 2 months, with protection dropping a lot between month 1 and 2. I am still not understanding why my kid, who just had Covid and has also had three doses of vaccine, needs to get another before camp. Especially when it then makes a potentially more effective fall booster less useful for said kid.

For those asking why we can't just pick another camp: my kid adored this camp last year and has friends returning, and it is tailored to their interests. We have also paid a large, nonrefundable deposit.

they are requiring you to upload the vax card?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes our camp in Maine requires it.

My sisters kids go to a camp in a very red state. They are not.
She is not sending them this year.

She must not understand science.

NO she is an actual scientist so yeah she does...

You on the other hand don't. Grow up.

I 100% do and actual scientists and doctors agree with me. Ask her for the actual data on risks and benefits of additional booster shots for healthy kids with two or three prior doses plus covid. This data doesn’t exist. The cdc and fda cannot give it to me and I’ve been asking for a year. Enlighten me and post the data here. You won’t be able to but I’m happy for you to prove me wrong. Literally prove me wrong with facts.

Not the previous poster, but totally unsurprisingly, as the data starts to come in it does show that bivalent boosters decrease the risk of transmission (also, sadly unsurprisingly, that the effectiveness decreases over time)-- by 77% after 1 month and 47% after 2 months. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.01.18.23284739v1

I am also asking to weigh that minimal benefit against the risks to healthy kids.
I’m not clear that it’s worth it to mandate it for that minimal and short lasting benefit and lots of real doctors like Paul Offit agree with me.

OP again, and I agree. This is a nice study but it also shows that infection is more protective, and also only goes out 2 months, with protection dropping a lot between month 1 and 2. I am still not understanding why my kid, who just had Covid and has also had three doses of vaccine, needs to get another before camp. Especially when it then makes a potentially more effective fall booster less useful for said kid.

For those asking why we can't just pick another camp: my kid adored this camp last year and has friends returning, and it is tailored to their interests. We have also paid a large, nonrefundable deposit.

they are requiring you to upload the vax card?

Not sure yet, but they did require it last year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes our camp in Maine requires it.

My sisters kids go to a camp in a very red state. They are not.
She is not sending them this year.

She must not understand science.

NO she is an actual scientist so yeah she does...

You on the other hand don't. Grow up.

I 100% do and actual scientists and doctors agree with me. Ask her for the actual data on risks and benefits of additional booster shots for healthy kids with two or three prior doses plus covid. This data doesn’t exist. The cdc and fda cannot give it to me and I’ve been asking for a year. Enlighten me and post the data here. You won’t be able to but I’m happy for you to prove me wrong. Literally prove me wrong with facts.

Not the previous poster, but totally unsurprisingly, as the data starts to come in it does show that bivalent boosters decrease the risk of transmission (also, sadly unsurprisingly, that the effectiveness decreases over time)-- by 77% after 1 month and 47% after 2 months. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.01.18.23284739v1

I am also asking to weigh that minimal benefit against the risks to healthy kids.
I’m not clear that it’s worth it to mandate it for that minimal and short lasting benefit and lots of real doctors like Paul Offit agree with me.

OP again, and I agree. This is a nice study but it also shows that infection is more protective, and also only goes out 2 months, with protection dropping a lot between month 1 and 2. I am still not understanding why my kid, who just had Covid and has also had three doses of vaccine, needs to get another before camp. Especially when it then makes a potentially more effective fall booster less useful for said kid.

For those asking why we can't just pick another camp: my kid adored this camp last year and has friends returning, and it is tailored to their interests. We have also paid a large, nonrefundable deposit.

they are requiring you to upload the vax card?

DP but our camp is. And, yes basically the only hope to get the rule to change is a parent uprising.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes our camp in Maine requires it.

My sisters kids go to a camp in a very red state. They are not.
She is not sending them this year.

She must not understand science.

NO she is an actual scientist so yeah she does...

You on the other hand don't. Grow up.

+1

Thanks for showing up with the +1. I’m still waiting for the data to prove me wrong.

Thanks for proving to everyone you are an a$$$