Would you still go to a specific church if...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tbh, everyone is a sinner. Do you not want to hear you are a sinner? We all are.

It's easy to say "all have sinned," and realize that includes me. There's lots of company, at least. Where the rubber hits the road is when someone invites you to consider the possibility that some specific thing you do may be sinful.

I want a church that will do that for me. And be able to explain why, so I can decide if they're right.

So you want to decide what is a sin, or what is not a sin, independent of the Word of God?

No, not at all. But I do want to determine whether somebody else's understanding of the Word of God is correct. You might not believe this, but not everything that somebody tell you is always true.

The word of God doesn’t change.

Do you speak for God? Do you know what God's word is on any given subject? Do you think a random Lutheran minister has a hotline to Jesus?

[Anonymous]

God's will never changes. Psalm 33:11 says, “The counsel of the Lord stands forever, The plans of His heart to all generations.” His Word is Timeless and His Promises are Everlasting! Matthew 24:35 says, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.” God's counsel never changes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tbh, everyone is a sinner. Do you not want to hear you are a sinner? We all are.

It's easy to say "all have sinned," and realize that includes me. There's lots of company, at least. Where the rubber hits the road is when someone invites you to consider the possibility that some specific thing you do may be sinful.

I want a church that will do that for me. And be able to explain why, so I can decide if they're right.

So you want to decide what is a sin, or what is not a sin, independent of the Word of God?

No, not at all. But I do want to determine whether somebody else's understanding of the Word of God is correct. You might not believe this, but not everything that somebody tell you is always true.

The word of God doesn’t change.

I feel like PP meant they wanted to be challenged, not catered to.

PP wants to have “her” sins excused, it seems. Sin is sin. We are all sinners, and our sins are sins. Nobody’s sins are greater or lesser.

far as it compares to the holiness of God, all sin is the same. Every sin, from anger to murder, from white lies to adultery, will lead to eternal condemnation (James 4:17; Romans 6:23). All sin, no matter how “small,” goes against the nature and will of an infinite and eternal God and is therefore deserving of an infinite and eternal punishment (Isaiah 13:11). In this sense, there is no “worst” sin.

All sinners fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). But, considered another way, sins are unequal in at least two respects:

First, not all sins are equal in their earthly consequences. Although both lust and adultery are sinful, one (adultery) will have worse consequences than the other. The consequences of having lust in one’s heart will not be as severe as committing the physical act of adultery. The same is true with entertaining a covetous thought versus committing theft. All sin is bad, but not all sin carries the same penalty in this world. In that sense, some sins are worse than others.

Scripture singles out sexual sin as having a unique impact on the sinner: “Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body” (1 Corinthians 6:18). In this passage, immorality is placed in a category apart from other sins as having a direct effect on one’s body. Does this mean sexual sin if the “worst” sin? Maybe. It certainly means that sins involving sexual immorality have worse consequences in this world.

Second, not all sins are equal in the degree of eternal penalty. Illustrating the need to be ready for His return, Jesus spoke of different degrees of punishment: “A servant who knows what the master wants, but isn’t prepared and doesn’t carry out those instructions, will be severely punished. But someone who does not know, and then does something wrong, will be punished only lightly” (Luke 12:47– 48, NLT). So, sins of presumption and negligence warrant a heftier penalty in the final judgment than sins committed in ignorance. Hell is hot, but it might be hotter for some. In that sense, some sins are worse than others.

We should guard ourselves against three wrong ideas about the “worst” sin:

First, if there is a “worst” sin, that doesn’t mean that other, “lesser” sins are excusable. Sin is sin, and it is all unrighteous.

Second, we must not fall into the trap of comparing our sins with others’. When we compare, we will invariably conclude that other people are committing “worse” sins than we are; our sins are somehow “better.” Our first concern should be our own sin, whatever it is, and not the sins of those around us (Matthew 7:4–5). God’s standard is not how well we measure up to other people but how we measure up to Christ.

Third, even if there is a “worst” sin, God can still forgive it. Just as there is no sin too small to be worthy of punishment, there is no sin too big that God cannot forgive it. When a repentant prostitute came to Jesus, she found grace; Jesus then said to the onlookers, “I tell you, her sins—and they are many—have been forgiven” (Luke 7:47, NLT). And God has already forgiven the man who considered himself to be “the worst of them all” (1 Timothy 1:15, NLT). Jesus died to pay the penalty for all sin (John 3:16; 1 John 2:2). “God made [Jesus] who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21). For the believer, there is no sin Jesus’ sacrifice does not cover (see Romans 8:1).

God hates sin. Thankfully, He has provided a way to “cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:8–10) through His Son, Jesus Christ (John 3:17). Our Heavenly Father “desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” (1 Timothy 2:4).

In the final analysis, we might say that the “worst” sin is unbelief. Faith in Christ is how people rightly respond to God’s offer of salvation. “How shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation?” (Hebrews 2:3). To reject the Savior is to accept the penalty for one’s own sin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tbh, everyone is a sinner. Do you not want to hear you are a sinner? We all are.

It's easy to say "all have sinned," and realize that includes me. There's lots of company, at least. Where the rubber hits the road is when someone invites you to consider the possibility that some specific thing you do may be sinful.

I want a church that will do that for me. And be able to explain why, so I can decide if they're right.

So you want to decide what is a sin, or what is not a sin, independent of the Word of God?

No, not at all. But I do want to determine whether somebody else's understanding of the Word of God is correct. You might not believe this, but not everything that somebody tell you is always true.

PP I think you want a Bible study group? Find other people to discuss the word of god with. My father has a wonderful time with his Bible study group -- it's a bunch of largely lay theologians who argue passionately about the word of god and they come from a pretty wide variety of backgrounds and political perspectives.

I think whether I would consider a religious leader telling me some action of mine was sinful when I had not previously considered it sinful would depend on whether I had consistently found their theology well founded. Do I find their teachings and arguments consistent with the Bible and the teachings of Jesus? If so, I might give them a hearing. If not, I probably would not.

[Anonymous]

I would never attend a church that was openly aganist homosexuality or Republicans. As an adult child of divorce I would be okay attending a church that didn't support divorce.

[Anonymous]

Yes I would. Sometimes, I would get into conversations (sometimes heated) about why I differ with them over interpretation of scripture. Sometimes I keep it to myself. I'm not gay so this is not something I am willing to change churches over, but I will openly state that I'm not anti homosexuality like a lot of churches are. And even if it is a sin, I'm not trying to exclude them from the church because of that sin. James (or 1 John) talks about sins of death and Jesus talks about the unforgivable sin. I feel like we are supposed to guard people against these things and hope and pray that the Spirit that dwells inside them guides them towards a resolution on these matters.

One thing that gets me frustrated lately is how "the church" likes to talk about these issues like abortion and homosexuality but was silent or endorsed things like slavery and Jim Crow and even today a lot of the southern strategy to disenfranchise voters, the abuse of the poor, the stealing from welfare, not supporting pregnant women, or abandoned children. There are present day measures to take action against women who have miscarriages but the churches in those communities are more worried about homosexuality or the death of a fetus. It gets to the point where you really have to question the purpose of "the church".

But I don't generally go for the preacher or the message. I go because my churches have always been a community of believers who are struggling to make it and we lean on each other and on God to help us persevere. Some of these people I've known all my life through many pastors and deacons and whatever else leadership wants to call themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tbh, everyone is a sinner. Do you not want to hear you are a sinner? We all are.

It's easy to say "all have sinned," and realize that includes me. There's lots of company, at least. Where the rubber hits the road is when someone invites you to consider the possibility that some specific thing you do may be sinful.

I want a church that will do that for me. And be able to explain why, so I can decide if they're right.

So you want to decide what is a sin, or what is not a sin, independent of the Word of God?

No, not at all. But I do want to determine whether somebody else's understanding of the Word of God is correct. You might not believe this, but not everything that somebody tell you is always true.

The word of God doesn’t change.

I feel like PP meant they wanted to be challenged, not catered to.

PP wants to have “her” sins excused, it seems. Sin is sin. We are all sinners, and our sins are sins. Nobody’s sins are greater or lesser.

far as it compares to the holiness of God, all sin is the same. Every sin, from anger to murder, from white lies to adultery, will lead to eternal condemnation (James 4:17; Romans 6:23). All sin, no matter how “small,” goes against the nature and will of an infinite and eternal God and is therefore deserving of an infinite and eternal punishment (Isaiah 13:11). In this sense, there is no “worst” sin.

All sinners fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). But, considered another way, sins are unequal in at least two respects:

First, not all sins are equal in their earthly consequences. Although both lust and adultery are sinful, one (adultery) will have worse consequences than the other. The consequences of having lust in one’s heart will not be as severe as committing the physical act of adultery. The same is true with entertaining a covetous thought versus committing theft. All sin is bad, but not all sin carries the same penalty in this world. In that sense, some sins are worse than others.

Scripture singles out sexual sin as having a unique impact on the sinner: “Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body” (1 Corinthians 6:18). In this passage, immorality is placed in a category apart from other sins as having a direct effect on one’s body. Does this mean sexual sin if the “worst” sin? Maybe. It certainly means that sins involving sexual immorality have worse consequences in this world.

Second, not all sins are equal in the degree of eternal penalty. Illustrating the need to be ready for His return, Jesus spoke of different degrees of punishment: “A servant who knows what the master wants, but isn’t prepared and doesn’t carry out those instructions, will be severely punished. But someone who does not know, and then does something wrong, will be punished only lightly” (Luke 12:47– 48, NLT). So, sins of presumption and negligence warrant a heftier penalty in the final judgment than sins committed in ignorance. Hell is hot, but it might be hotter for some. In that sense, some sins are worse than others.

We should guard ourselves against three wrong ideas about the “worst” sin:

First, if there is a “worst” sin, that doesn’t mean that other, “lesser” sins are excusable. Sin is sin, and it is all unrighteous.

Second, we must not fall into the trap of comparing our sins with others’. When we compare, we will invariably conclude that other people are committing “worse” sins than we are; our sins are somehow “better.” Our first concern should be our own sin, whatever it is, and not the sins of those around us (Matthew 7:4–5). God’s standard is not how well we measure up to other people but how we measure up to Christ.

Third, even if there is a “worst” sin, God can still forgive it. Just as there is no sin too small to be worthy of punishment, there is no sin too big that God cannot forgive it. When a repentant prostitute came to Jesus, she found grace; Jesus then said to the onlookers, “I tell you, her sins—and they are many—have been forgiven” (Luke 7:47, NLT). And God has already forgiven the man who considered himself to be “the worst of them all” (1 Timothy 1:15, NLT). Jesus died to pay the penalty for all sin (John 3:16; 1 John 2:2). “God made [Jesus] who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21). For the believer, there is no sin Jesus’ sacrifice does not cover (see Romans 8:1).

God hates sin. Thankfully, He has provided a way to “cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:8–10) through His Son, Jesus Christ (John 3:17). Our Heavenly Father “desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” (1 Timothy 2:4).

In the final analysis, we might say that the “worst” sin is unbelief. Faith in Christ is how people rightly respond to God’s offer of salvation. “How shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation?” (Hebrews 2:3). To reject the Savior is to accept the penalty for one’s own sin.

Posts like this make me glad I'm not a Christian any more. Concerns about rightly responding to God's offer of salvation are over for me. Alleluia

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I would never attend a church that was openly aganist homosexuality or Republicans. As an adult child of divorce I would be okay attending a church that didn't support divorce.

So for you it's more about being unwelcoming, not the reason for it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I would never attend a church that was openly aganist homosexuality or Republicans. As an adult child of divorce I would be okay attending a church that didn't support divorce.

You adult children take the cake. It’s all about you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I would never attend a church that was openly aganist homosexuality or Republicans. As an adult child of divorce I would be okay attending a church that didn't support divorce.

This without the BS about divorce which can tie women in abusive relationships and also damage kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I would never attend a church that was openly aganist homosexuality or Republicans. As an adult child of divorce I would be okay attending a church that didn't support divorce.

You adult children take the cake. It’s all about you.

Keep making excuses for destroying a family!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tbh, everyone is a sinner. Do you not want to hear you are a sinner? We all are.

It's easy to say "all have sinned," and realize that includes me. There's lots of company, at least. Where the rubber hits the road is when someone invites you to consider the possibility that some specific thing you do may be sinful.

I want a church that will do that for me. And be able to explain why, so I can decide if they're right.

So you want to decide what is a sin, or what is not a sin, independent of the Word of God?

No, not at all. But I do want to determine whether somebody else's understanding of the Word of God is correct. You might not believe this, but not everything that somebody tell you is always true.

The word of God doesn’t change.

I don't recall saying that it does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tbh, everyone is a sinner. Do you not want to hear you are a sinner? We all are.

It's easy to say "all have sinned," and realize that includes me. There's lots of company, at least. Where the rubber hits the road is when someone invites you to consider the possibility that some specific thing you do may be sinful.

I want a church that will do that for me. And be able to explain why, so I can decide if they're right.

So you want to decide what is a sin, or what is not a sin, independent of the Word of God?

No, not at all. But I do want to determine whether somebody else's understanding of the Word of God is correct. You might not believe this, but not everything that somebody tell you is always true.

The word of God doesn’t change.

I feel like PP meant they wanted to be challenged, not catered to.

PP wants to have “her” sins excused, it seems. Sin is sin. We are all sinners, and our sins are sins. Nobody’s sins are greater or lesser.

far as it compares to the holiness of God, all sin is the same. Every sin, from anger to murder, from white lies to adultery, will lead to eternal condemnation (James 4:17; Romans 6:23). All sin, no matter how “small,” goes against the nature and will of an infinite and eternal God and is therefore deserving of an infinite and eternal punishment (Isaiah 13:11). In this sense, there is no “worst” sin.

All sinners fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). But, considered another way, sins are unequal in at least two respects:

First, not all sins are equal in their earthly consequences. Although both lust and adultery are sinful, one (adultery) will have worse consequences than the other. The consequences of having lust in one’s heart will not be as severe as committing the physical act of adultery. The same is true with entertaining a covetous thought versus committing theft. All sin is bad, but not all sin carries the same penalty in this world. In that sense, some sins are worse than others.

Scripture singles out sexual sin as having a unique impact on the sinner: “Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body” (1 Corinthians 6:18). In this passage, immorality is placed in a category apart from other sins as having a direct effect on one’s body. Does this mean sexual sin if the “worst” sin? Maybe. It certainly means that sins involving sexual immorality have worse consequences in this world.

Second, not all sins are equal in the degree of eternal penalty. Illustrating the need to be ready for His return, Jesus spoke of different degrees of punishment: “A servant who knows what the master wants, but isn’t prepared and doesn’t carry out those instructions, will be severely punished. But someone who does not know, and then does something wrong, will be punished only lightly” (Luke 12:47– 48, NLT). So, sins of presumption and negligence warrant a heftier penalty in the final judgment than sins committed in ignorance. Hell is hot, but it might be hotter for some. In that sense, some sins are worse than others.

We should guard ourselves against three wrong ideas about the “worst” sin:

First, if there is a “worst” sin, that doesn’t mean that other, “lesser” sins are excusable. Sin is sin, and it is all unrighteous.

Second, we must not fall into the trap of comparing our sins with others’. When we compare, we will invariably conclude that other people are committing “worse” sins than we are; our sins are somehow “better.” Our first concern should be our own sin, whatever it is, and not the sins of those around us (Matthew 7:4–5). God’s standard is not how well we measure up to other people but how we measure up to Christ.

Third, even if there is a “worst” sin, God can still forgive it. Just as there is no sin too small to be worthy of punishment, there is no sin too big that God cannot forgive it. When a repentant prostitute came to Jesus, she found grace; Jesus then said to the onlookers, “I tell you, her sins—and they are many—have been forgiven” (Luke 7:47, NLT). And God has already forgiven the man who considered himself to be “the worst of them all” (1 Timothy 1:15, NLT). Jesus died to pay the penalty for all sin (John 3:16; 1 John 2:2). “God made [Jesus] who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21). For the believer, there is no sin Jesus’ sacrifice does not cover (see Romans 8:1).

God hates sin. Thankfully, He has provided a way to “cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:8–10) through His Son, Jesus Christ (John 3:17). Our Heavenly Father “desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” (1 Timothy 2:4).

In the final analysis, we might say that the “worst” sin is unbelief. Faith in Christ is how people rightly respond to God’s offer of salvation. “How shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation?” (Hebrews 2:3). To reject the Savior is to accept the penalty for one’s own sin.

I'm not reading that wall of text, especially when it ends with "in the final analysis."

[Anonymous]

It feels like this is a pillar of Catholicism so people obviously do.

[Anonymous]

No. Loving and accepting all people is one of my core values and I would not attend a church that didn't share that value.