Just curious: you feel judgment about the sacrifices you make for your teens?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, every mother thinks the amount of work they are putting into their children is absolutely necessary to their child's well being. But the reality is that there is a HUGE range of time parents put into their kids. My close friend is a sahm of 3 school aged NT kids, and she legitimately feels like everything she does for them is necessary - and she will complain that her schedule is much busier than mine (I'm a full time big law partner). She has lunch with one of her kids every day at school, she runs one of their extra curriculars, she volunteers in school, she takes them all to ECs, etc etc. She is convinced all of these things are necessary for their well being. I work full time with one ADHD ASD kid, who isn't really interested in many ECs. I do pick up and drop off every day, he does a few activities before and after school, and I help with homework every day, plus manage therapies. I think I do enough for my DC.

I don't think 90% of what she does for her NT kids is necessary, because I don't do any of them for DS and he's fine, he's good in fact!

Point is that every parent thinks what they're doing is what their kids need, because that's what let's us sleep at night. I sleep at night, not feeling guilty that I'm not more available for DS. My friend sleeps at night, knowing there's a purpose to her life.

It's quite possible you don't need to be doing the vast majority of what you are doing for your kid. Frankly, child therapists are rarely a good gauge for what's necessary. It's rare to meet a ST who doesn't think your kid should stay in speech, an OT who doesn't think your kid should stay in OT, or a psych who thinks they wouldn't benefit. There are a million posts on this forum of SN parents wondering where the balance is between what is recommended therapy vs what is realistic (either because of time or money or overkill concerns). We're all pretty aware that therapists may be overselling the benefits of their services to us.

On the flip side, your therapist thinks you're in overkill mode. He must be saying that based on something he's seen, like you're unhappy, or tired, or losing yourself. His opinion is at least worth listening to, I think. Because if he's right, there's no prize for being the best mommy martyr. If he's wrong, or if you are good with your life, then listen to him but don't take the advice.

fwiw I've decided over the years to do a minimum of therapy for DS. I don't think he benefits much from it, in our case. I've also picked and chosen what fits healthily into the family lifestyle we want. And three days a week of therapy does not. I typically keep to one thing at a time (focus on speech for a while, or now we're focusing on some academic tutoring). I've also taken periods to do a "break" from therapies and overall worrying about DS - like, we may start a school year without therapies and do a mental reset to see how things go for a while. The one psychologist we maintain a long term relationship with also commends me for this approach. She celebrates this "intentional parenting approach", and I think she's tacitly suggesting that too many of the kids she sees have parents that are too enmeshed in their kids. On the flip side, she's a therapist and may just say this to make me feel good (like, she'll tell every parent that they're doing an amazing job, whatever their approach) - which re-affirms that you shouldn't believe whatever all the child therapists are saying, because they're just saying what you want to hear.

To me, it sounds like multiple people in your life are giving you permission to step back, and may even think it would be beneficial for you to step back - both to you and your DD. I'd listen to that. But it sounds like you don't want to listen to that, because you are vested in the decisions you've made. That's fine too. But it's unlikely all of that you're doing is really necessary.

Why does it sound like multiple people in my life think that it would be beneficial to DD to step back? I don't think that what I said implied that at all.

I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about. DD's therapy time changed to 6:15 at night. The therapist mentioned that DD was really tired during that time and therapy seemed less effective, and asked me if there were other times I could do it. All the times she had available were during the school day. We changed it to a school time slot, so now I can't do a during-school-hours job I was considering seeking.

The therapist grilled me about other options for time for therapy, and I mean, sure, DD would probably be okay doing therapy later at night. The therapist didn't even say it was absolutely necessary, just that it would be better. But seeking out this other job is not absolutely necessary either. It is far from a dream job and I don't need the money. On balance I think I'd rather do that job than what I'm doing now, but do I want my suicidal child to get less out of therapy that has really been helping them, just so I could potentially have a slightly better situation? No. I am sure somebody else would make a different choice and that's fine, but I feel like this is a pretty small sacrifice and it's worth it. Yet my therapist seemed really frustrated that I wouldn't budge on it. I'm not overextended, I just wish I had slightly more rewarding work.

This is just one example, but often when I say I can't do something because I have to do something else for my kid, people push back because she's a teen.

OP - you described your DD as high maintenance ADHD and ASD in the first post, but now you're saying suicidal. Of course, if your DC is suicidal, all parents would dramatically shift their schedules - and it's silly you're even asking about it here. If your DD is not actually suicidal, but just high emotional maintenance, I think I'd wonder why you chose that word "suicidal" when one single poster pushed back on whether you really, really need to be doing all this for your kid. I'm guessing your therapist senses this too. I'm also guessing your kid is not actually suicidal, or there's no way your therapist would be suggesting anything other than prioritizing your DD. In short, I think your last post really exposed your defensiveness here, and yes, if I were you I'd take a minute to listen to those around me who care about me.

Perhaps it depends on how you define suicidal. DD can contract for safety. But in many situations, like if she is asked to transition from one task from another, her first thought is “I want to die,” and that coupled with how she used to self-harm means it’s a *serious* issue but not one that warrants more than therapy, preferably at a time when DD isn’t already drained. I do think the terms “emotionally high maintenance” and suicidal fit, but you might not.

I do sometimes get defensive (because I’m literally defending myself against accusations that are based on assumptions that aren’t true), but I was actually just giving an example of the kind of sacrifices I was talking about for PP. She mentioned demands by her child’s therapists that were much more onerous than the simple ask I got from mine.

The good news is that those around me who care about me, like DH and my best friends who know everything, and none of them thinks I’m a mommy martyr.
I just posted this because I think that society expects us to sacrifice a ton for little kids, and when we don’t we are selfish, but then we are expected to pull back a ton when they are older, and if we don’t we are mommy martyrs, enmeshed, etc. (I didn’t need the kind words I have received here, but I do appreciate them.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, every mother thinks the amount of work they are putting into their children is absolutely necessary to their child's well being. But the reality is that there is a HUGE range of time parents put into their kids. My close friend is a sahm of 3 school aged NT kids, and she legitimately feels like everything she does for them is necessary - and she will complain that her schedule is much busier than mine (I'm a full time big law partner). She has lunch with one of her kids every day at school, she runs one of their extra curriculars, she volunteers in school, she takes them all to ECs, etc etc. She is convinced all of these things are necessary for their well being. I work full time with one ADHD ASD kid, who isn't really interested in many ECs. I do pick up and drop off every day, he does a few activities before and after school, and I help with homework every day, plus manage therapies. I think I do enough for my DC.

I don't think 90% of what she does for her NT kids is necessary, because I don't do any of them for DS and he's fine, he's good in fact!

Point is that every parent thinks what they're doing is what their kids need, because that's what let's us sleep at night. I sleep at night, not feeling guilty that I'm not more available for DS. My friend sleeps at night, knowing there's a purpose to her life.

It's quite possible you don't need to be doing the vast majority of what you are doing for your kid. Frankly, child therapists are rarely a good gauge for what's necessary. It's rare to meet a ST who doesn't think your kid should stay in speech, an OT who doesn't think your kid should stay in OT, or a psych who thinks they wouldn't benefit. There are a million posts on this forum of SN parents wondering where the balance is between what is recommended therapy vs what is realistic (either because of time or money or overkill concerns). We're all pretty aware that therapists may be overselling the benefits of their services to us.

On the flip side, your therapist thinks you're in overkill mode. He must be saying that based on something he's seen, like you're unhappy, or tired, or losing yourself. His opinion is at least worth listening to, I think. Because if he's right, there's no prize for being the best mommy martyr. If he's wrong, or if you are good with your life, then listen to him but don't take the advice.

fwiw I've decided over the years to do a minimum of therapy for DS. I don't think he benefits much from it, in our case. I've also picked and chosen what fits healthily into the family lifestyle we want. And three days a week of therapy does not. I typically keep to one thing at a time (focus on speech for a while, or now we're focusing on some academic tutoring). I've also taken periods to do a "break" from therapies and overall worrying about DS - like, we may start a school year without therapies and do a mental reset to see how things go for a while. The one psychologist we maintain a long term relationship with also commends me for this approach. She celebrates this "intentional parenting approach", and I think she's tacitly suggesting that too many of the kids she sees have parents that are too enmeshed in their kids. On the flip side, she's a therapist and may just say this to make me feel good (like, she'll tell every parent that they're doing an amazing job, whatever their approach) - which re-affirms that you shouldn't believe whatever all the child therapists are saying, because they're just saying what you want to hear.

To me, it sounds like multiple people in your life are giving you permission to step back, and may even think it would be beneficial for you to step back - both to you and your DD. I'd listen to that. But it sounds like you don't want to listen to that, because you are vested in the decisions you've made. That's fine too. But it's unlikely all of that you're doing is really necessary.

Why does it sound like multiple people in my life think that it would be beneficial to DD to step back? I don't think that what I said implied that at all.

Not PP, but because of your OP, where you talk about multiple people.

I too sense a lot of defensiveness in your responses and do question the turn from ADHD/ASD to suicidal. It leads me to question a lot of what you saying here, and might be why your therapist is responding to you the way he is. Just something to reflect upon. None of us here can know exactly what is going on and can only go by what you are writing and reading between the lines of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, every mother thinks the amount of work they are putting into their children is absolutely necessary to their child's well being. But the reality is that there is a HUGE range of time parents put into their kids. My close friend is a sahm of 3 school aged NT kids, and she legitimately feels like everything she does for them is necessary - and she will complain that her schedule is much busier than mine (I'm a full time big law partner). She has lunch with one of her kids every day at school, she runs one of their extra curriculars, she volunteers in school, she takes them all to ECs, etc etc. She is convinced all of these things are necessary for their well being. I work full time with one ADHD ASD kid, who isn't really interested in many ECs. I do pick up and drop off every day, he does a few activities before and after school, and I help with homework every day, plus manage therapies. I think I do enough for my DC.

I don't think 90% of what she does for her NT kids is necessary, because I don't do any of them for DS and he's fine, he's good in fact!

Point is that every parent thinks what they're doing is what their kids need, because that's what let's us sleep at night. I sleep at night, not feeling guilty that I'm not more available for DS. My friend sleeps at night, knowing there's a purpose to her life.

It's quite possible you don't need to be doing the vast majority of what you are doing for your kid. Frankly, child therapists are rarely a good gauge for what's necessary. It's rare to meet a ST who doesn't think your kid should stay in speech, an OT who doesn't think your kid should stay in OT, or a psych who thinks they wouldn't benefit. There are a million posts on this forum of SN parents wondering where the balance is between what is recommended therapy vs what is realistic (either because of time or money or overkill concerns). We're all pretty aware that therapists may be overselling the benefits of their services to us.

On the flip side, your therapist thinks you're in overkill mode. He must be saying that based on something he's seen, like you're unhappy, or tired, or losing yourself. His opinion is at least worth listening to, I think. Because if he's right, there's no prize for being the best mommy martyr. If he's wrong, or if you are good with your life, then listen to him but don't take the advice.

fwiw I've decided over the years to do a minimum of therapy for DS. I don't think he benefits much from it, in our case. I've also picked and chosen what fits healthily into the family lifestyle we want. And three days a week of therapy does not. I typically keep to one thing at a time (focus on speech for a while, or now we're focusing on some academic tutoring). I've also taken periods to do a "break" from therapies and overall worrying about DS - like, we may start a school year without therapies and do a mental reset to see how things go for a while. The one psychologist we maintain a long term relationship with also commends me for this approach. She celebrates this "intentional parenting approach", and I think she's tacitly suggesting that too many of the kids she sees have parents that are too enmeshed in their kids. On the flip side, she's a therapist and may just say this to make me feel good (like, she'll tell every parent that they're doing an amazing job, whatever their approach) - which re-affirms that you shouldn't believe whatever all the child therapists are saying, because they're just saying what you want to hear.

To me, it sounds like multiple people in your life are giving you permission to step back, and may even think it would be beneficial for you to step back - both to you and your DD. I'd listen to that. But it sounds like you don't want to listen to that, because you are vested in the decisions you've made. That's fine too. But it's unlikely all of that you're doing is really necessary.

Why does it sound like multiple people in my life think that it would be beneficial to DD to step back? I don't think that what I said implied that at all.

I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about. DD's therapy time changed to 6:15 at night. The therapist mentioned that DD was really tired during that time and therapy seemed less effective, and asked me if there were other times I could do it. All the times she had available were during the school day. We changed it to a school time slot, so now I can't do a during-school-hours job I was considering seeking.

The therapist grilled me about other options for time for therapy, and I mean, sure, DD would probably be okay doing therapy later at night. The therapist didn't even say it was absolutely necessary, just that it would be better. But seeking out this other job is not absolutely necessary either. It is far from a dream job and I don't need the money. On balance I think I'd rather do that job than what I'm doing now, but do I want my suicidal child to get less out of therapy that has really been helping them, just so I could potentially have a slightly better situation? No. I am sure somebody else would make a different choice and that's fine, but I feel like this is a pretty small sacrifice and it's worth it. Yet my therapist seemed really frustrated that I wouldn't budge on it. I'm not overextended, I just wish I had slightly more rewarding work.

This is just one example, but often when I say I can't do something because I have to do something else for my kid, people push back because she's a teen.

OP - you described your DD as high maintenance ADHD and ASD in the first post, but now you're saying suicidal. Of course, if your DC is suicidal, all parents would dramatically shift their schedules - and it's silly you're even asking about it here. If your DD is not actually suicidal, but just high emotional maintenance, I think I'd wonder why you chose that word "suicidal" when one single poster pushed back on whether you really, really need to be doing all this for your kid. I'm guessing your therapist senses this too. I'm also guessing your kid is not actually suicidal, or there's no way your therapist would be suggesting anything other than prioritizing your DD. In short, I think your last post really exposed your defensiveness here, and yes, if I were you I'd take a minute to listen to those around me who care about me.

Perhaps it depends on how you define suicidal. DD can contract for safety. But in many situations, like if she is asked to transition from one task from another, her first thought is “I want to die,” and that coupled with how she used to self-harm means it’s a *serious* issue but not one that warrants more than therapy, preferably at a time when DD isn’t already drained. I do think the terms “emotionally high maintenance” and suicidal fit, but you might not.

I do sometimes get defensive (because I’m literally defending myself against accusations that are based on assumptions that aren’t true), but I was actually just giving an example of the kind of sacrifices I was talking about for PP. She mentioned demands by her child’s therapists that were much more onerous than the simple ask I got from mine.

The good news is that those around me who care about me, like DH and my best friends who know everything, and none of them thinks I’m a mommy martyr.
I just posted this because I think that society expects us to sacrifice a ton for little kids, and when we don’t we are selfish, but then we are expected to pull back a ton when they are older, and if we don’t we are mommy martyrs, enmeshed, etc. (I didn’t need the kind words I have received here, but I do appreciate them.)

You seem to interpret any questioning of you as accusations. It’s hard to help someone who jumps to that.

[Anonymous]

Op, the more you write, the more I'm worried about YOU. It sounds like you are a very loving mother to your DD, and have a lot of loving community and support around you. That's great! I would step back and listen to some of these persons who care about you.

[Anonymous]

My oldest teenage child was in a psychiatric hospital three times this year (suicidal ideation was part of it). It’s been a terrible, stressful year with times I literally needed to drop what was going on and help oldest DC. I mention this to make it clear I understand that sometimes we need to make sacrifices to help our children.

I also have other, younger children. No matter what was going on with oldest DC, I made sure I kept things going for younger DCs. It meant that not every decision could be about what was best for oldest DC. I could take the time for them that I couldn’t take for myself.

My experience with older DC also helped me realize that I don’t have a lot of control over what is going on or what is going to happen. I’m stressing and researching and doing my best and putting my life on hold, but what they desperately needed was a good psychiatrist and the right medication. How do I know that? Because in the end, that’s what has reduced the number of hospitalizations - everything I was doing was useless in keeping DC out of the hospital. Now when DC is having a bad day emotionally, I remind myself they are taking their meds, it’s a process, and right now they aren’t in the hospital.

Your example of not taking a job so you could get a better therapy time for your DC seems like a misplaced desire to feel control over the situation. It’s not really clear there is a benefit for your child - just you trying to do something else to help. While I understand that desire, the opportunity cost is real, and it’s not good if all of your decisions are entirely focused on what might help your child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, every mother thinks the amount of work they are putting into their children is absolutely necessary to their child's well being. But the reality is that there is a HUGE range of time parents put into their kids. My close friend is a sahm of 3 school aged NT kids, and she legitimately feels like everything she does for them is necessary - and she will complain that her schedule is much busier than mine (I'm a full time big law partner). She has lunch with one of her kids every day at school, she runs one of their extra curriculars, she volunteers in school, she takes them all to ECs, etc etc. She is convinced all of these things are necessary for their well being. I work full time with one ADHD ASD kid, who isn't really interested in many ECs. I do pick up and drop off every day, he does a few activities before and after school, and I help with homework every day, plus manage therapies. I think I do enough for my DC.

I don't think 90% of what she does for her NT kids is necessary, because I don't do any of them for DS and he's fine, he's good in fact!

Point is that every parent thinks what they're doing is what their kids need, because that's what let's us sleep at night. I sleep at night, not feeling guilty that I'm not more available for DS. My friend sleeps at night, knowing there's a purpose to her life.

It's quite possible you don't need to be doing the vast majority of what you are doing for your kid. Frankly, child therapists are rarely a good gauge for what's necessary. It's rare to meet a ST who doesn't think your kid should stay in speech, an OT who doesn't think your kid should stay in OT, or a psych who thinks they wouldn't benefit. There are a million posts on this forum of SN parents wondering where the balance is between what is recommended therapy vs what is realistic (either because of time or money or overkill concerns). We're all pretty aware that therapists may be overselling the benefits of their services to us.

On the flip side, your therapist thinks you're in overkill mode. He must be saying that based on something he's seen, like you're unhappy, or tired, or losing yourself. His opinion is at least worth listening to, I think. Because if he's right, there's no prize for being the best mommy martyr. If he's wrong, or if you are good with your life, then listen to him but don't take the advice.

fwiw I've decided over the years to do a minimum of therapy for DS. I don't think he benefits much from it, in our case. I've also picked and chosen what fits healthily into the family lifestyle we want. And three days a week of therapy does not. I typically keep to one thing at a time (focus on speech for a while, or now we're focusing on some academic tutoring). I've also taken periods to do a "break" from therapies and overall worrying about DS - like, we may start a school year without therapies and do a mental reset to see how things go for a while. The one psychologist we maintain a long term relationship with also commends me for this approach. She celebrates this "intentional parenting approach", and I think she's tacitly suggesting that too many of the kids she sees have parents that are too enmeshed in their kids. On the flip side, she's a therapist and may just say this to make me feel good (like, she'll tell every parent that they're doing an amazing job, whatever their approach) - which re-affirms that you shouldn't believe whatever all the child therapists are saying, because they're just saying what you want to hear.

To me, it sounds like multiple people in your life are giving you permission to step back, and may even think it would be beneficial for you to step back - both to you and your DD. I'd listen to that. But it sounds like you don't want to listen to that, because you are vested in the decisions you've made. That's fine too. But it's unlikely all of that you're doing is really necessary.

Why does it sound like multiple people in my life think that it would be beneficial to DD to step back? I don't think that what I said implied that at all.

Not PP, but because of your OP, where you talk about multiple people.

I too sense a lot of defensiveness in your responses and do question the turn from ADHD/ASD to suicidal. It leads me to question a lot of what you saying here, and might be why your therapist is responding to you the way he is. Just something to reflect upon. None of us here can know exactly what is going on and can only go by what you are writing and reading between the lines of that.

OP here again. I guess this is just something I didn't understand, is that suicidality might be more (or at least different) what you would think a special needs parent has to deal with. This therapist was brand new and I was there for issues relating to my family of origin, not my present situation, and I had been pretty vague about DD's issues. I didn't mention the suicidality part. I don't want to tell people because it's sort of private, but I suppose it makes sense that people would "read though the lines" and think this is overkill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My oldest teenage child was in a psychiatric hospital three times this year (suicidal ideation was part of it). It’s been a terrible, stressful year with times I literally needed to drop what was going on and help oldest DC. I mention this to make it clear I understand that sometimes we need to make sacrifices to help our children.

I also have other, younger children. No matter what was going on with oldest DC, I made sure I kept things going for younger DCs. It meant that not every decision could be about what was best for oldest DC. I could take the time for them that I couldn’t take for myself.

My experience with older DC also helped me realize that I don’t have a lot of control over what is going on or what is going to happen. I’m stressing and researching and doing my best and putting my life on hold, but what they desperately needed was a good psychiatrist and the right medication. How do I know that? Because in the end, that’s what has reduced the number of hospitalizations - everything I was doing was useless in keeping DC out of the hospital. Now when DC is having a bad day emotionally, I remind myself they are taking their meds, it’s a process, and right now they aren’t in the hospital.

Your example of not taking a job so you could get a better therapy time for your DC seems like a misplaced desire to feel control over the situation. It’s not really clear there is a benefit for your child - just you trying to do something else to help. While I understand that desire, the opportunity cost is real, and it’s not good if all of your decisions are entirely focused on what might help your child.

I really think I must be being unclear. I didn't "not take a job." I just decided not to go after something I was vaguely considering.

I re-started this thread because of the bolded. Right now DD's at school, even though they were afraid to go because they aren't sure they will be safe there (we did go get an assessment last night and the therapists support my decision to send DD to school). I am comforted by the idea that it's a process. They are taking their meds (and that they have a lot of support and won't be alone there). So thank you!

[Anonymous]

OP I wish I could give you a hug, because I'm in a similar boat and sometimes need one myself. My ADHD/GAD/probably autistic 12yo isn't actively suicidal in the sense that they are at risk of imminent self harm, but we also get the "I want to die"/"I wish I weren't alive" comments - in earnest, not theatrical melodrama. I have no idea what might push them over that line, but I'm not willing to risk finding out - and I feel like so many people I try to talk to about this think it's just standard teen angst but it's NOT. And in part because I can't be open about these issues with most people, yes I absolutely feel judged for the choices and sacrifices I make.