AP Stats AND Calculus with Applications vs. AP Calc AB

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where do they want to go? My kid who did not take ANY Calculus in HS but took AP Stats and Stats seminar still got into a good Data Science program with merit - but DC wasn't interested in Ivies or Top 50 USNWR. DC will still have to take Calc in college for major but it didn't prevent them from getting in. It was also helpful that they weren't stressing about Calc during Junior year when they were also taking a full load of other AP classes. FWIW, the kid thought they were going to be liberal arts until they took AP Stats.

Did not know Data Science works for kids weak at math, is there a lot of statistics? College Statistic has tons of calculus

College stats for the social sciences did not include any calculus at UMCP. That was 30 years ago, but it's hard to think of a reason why that would have changed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where do they want to go? My kid who did not take ANY Calculus in HS but took AP Stats and Stats seminar still got into a good Data Science program with merit - but DC wasn't interested in Ivies or Top 50 USNWR. DC will still have to take Calc in college for major but it didn't prevent them from getting in. It was also helpful that they weren't stressing about Calc during Junior year when they were also taking a full load of other AP classes. FWIW, the kid thought they were going to be liberal arts until they took AP Stats.

Did not know Data Science works for kids weak at math, is there a lot of statistics? College Statistic has tons of calculus

College stats for the social sciences did not include any calculus at UMCP. That was 30 years ago, but it's hard to think of a reason why that would have changed.

Same for stats for bio majors at my Ivy. Also 30 years ago. I’m not a math person (dropped calc) but found it to be an easy class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where do they want to go? My kid who did not take ANY Calculus in HS but took AP Stats and Stats seminar still got into a good Data Science program with merit - but DC wasn't interested in Ivies or Top 50 USNWR. DC will still have to take Calc in college for major but it didn't prevent them from getting in. It was also helpful that they weren't stressing about Calc during Junior year when they were also taking a full load of other AP classes. FWIW, the kid thought they were going to be liberal arts until they took AP Stats.

Did not know Data Science works for kids weak at math, is there a lot of statistics? College Statistic has tons of calculus

College stats for the social sciences did not include any calculus at UMCP. That was 30 years ago, but it's hard to think of a reason why that would have changed.

Presumably a data sciences major would be taking more than one stats class, including upper level classes.

[Anonymous]

I think calc w/apps and AP Stats sounds like a very good option. The thing is regardless of major there's likely to be some math requirement in college. I don't believe AOs are hell bent on seeing AP Calc on a transcript, but a year break from the math sequence can mean the student will really struggle when they take math in college--that's what they're wary of. AP Stats, should be considered an elective. It's a great class but it's very qualitative, as much writing as computation. It doesn't build on high school level math or reinforce things like trig which will be needed later. But taking an AP level math elective certainly covers rigor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just take what you want. Have seen so many kids try to game the system, take courses they do not want to take, and then they don’t get into their reaches anyway. What’s the takeaway? That life is about making choices that matter to you, or that life is all about trying to get into certain colleges? Which group do you think deals better with rejection and setbacks?

I don’t know about you, but I want my kid to be prepared for college. Course selection does impact that.

A kid who is described as non-STEM and planning a social studies major is highly unlikely to need to take calculus in college. Maybe some courses to fulfill a quantitative requirement but there are usually lots of ways to do this that don't involve calculus. AP stats would be more relevant and more interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just take what you want. Have seen so many kids try to game the system, take courses they do not want to take, and then they don’t get into their reaches anyway. What’s the takeaway? That life is about making choices that matter to you, or that life is all about trying to get into certain colleges? Which group do you think deals better with rejection and setbacks?

I don’t know about you, but I want my kid to be prepared for college. Course selection does impact that.

A kid who is described as non-STEM and planning a social studies major is highly unlikely to need to take calculus in college. Maybe some courses to fulfill a quantitative requirement but there are usually lots of ways to do this that don't involve calculus. AP stats would be more relevant and more interesting.

Disagree, it was required at my T10 for 90 percent of majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just take what you want. Have seen so many kids try to game the system, take courses they do not want to take, and then they don’t get into their reaches anyway. What’s the takeaway? That life is about making choices that matter to you, or that life is all about trying to get into certain colleges? Which group do you think deals better with rejection and setbacks?

I don’t know about you, but I want my kid to be prepared for college. Course selection does impact that.

A kid who is described as non-STEM and planning a social studies major is highly unlikely to need to take calculus in college. Maybe some courses to fulfill a quantitative requirement but there are usually lots of ways to do this that don't involve calculus. AP stats would be more relevant and more interesting.

Disagree, it was required at my T10 for 90 percent of majors.

I spot checked a couple Ivys to see if government majors would need calculus for any requirements. I didn’t see any. Looks like a stats-type course is typically required either generally or for the major specifically. I think it was Princeton’s that specifically said no math beyond high school algebra needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where do they want to go? My kid who did not take ANY Calculus in HS but took AP Stats and Stats seminar still got into a good Data Science program with merit - but DC wasn't interested in Ivies or Top 50 USNWR. DC will still have to take Calc in college for major but it didn't prevent them from getting in. It was also helpful that they weren't stressing about Calc during Junior year when they were also taking a full load of other AP classes. FWIW, the kid thought they were going to be liberal arts until they took AP Stats.

Undecided but as an example - Middlebury might be a reach option.

Look at the admitted student profiles for the schools your kid is interested in. My humanities-focused kid is very interested in Wesleyan, where they make a point of noting that 86% of admitted students have taken calculus (https://www.wesleyan.edu/admission/apply/class-profile.html). So clearly they value it and are signaling that they prefer students who have taken it. That has helped my kid with the decision to take Calculus AB next year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take the Calc class, as some schools will require that at a minimum attainment level.

What schools REQUIRE calculus for a non-stem kid?

Yeah, what schools require calculus for a History major??!!?

For a history major (and really for anything that isn't STEM or Business), I personally think Statistics is a much more beneficial and useful course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take the Calc class, as some schools will require that at a minimum attainment level.

What schools REQUIRE calculus for a non-stem kid?

wharton is one of them.

Ok, make it for a non-STEM/Non-business major? Most business schools require some version of calculus. I like to call it calc Light, and it's very similar to what is required for many science majors as well (biology for one).

But this kid wants to be a history major. Statistics is much more useful for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Selingo’s book says calculus is viewed as one of the strongest signals of preparation for an elite college. One of the most prominent college advisors also says that calculus is an important signal and that AP stats is not viewed as favorably (though that this is changing a bit as stats becomes ever more important).

So only applicable if the kid wants to attend a T20 school. Even then, I'm sure there are history majors at Yale who did not take AP Calc---willing to bet some $$ on that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where do they want to go? My kid who did not take ANY Calculus in HS but took AP Stats and Stats seminar still got into a good Data Science program with merit - but DC wasn't interested in Ivies or Top 50 USNWR. DC will still have to take Calc in college for major but it didn't prevent them from getting in. It was also helpful that they weren't stressing about Calc during Junior year when they were also taking a full load of other AP classes. FWIW, the kid thought they were going to be liberal arts until they took AP Stats.

Did not know Data Science works for kids weak at math, is there a lot of statistics? College Statistic has tons of calculus

. DC not weak in math - advanced all the way through - just didn't prefer normal math (thought it was boring) - but loves Stats - and does very well in it.

You are saying your strong math kid did not take any calculus in HS because it is boring 🤔

. Yes - and they weren't interested in STEM (at the time) so there was no point in pushing them into a class that they had no use for (at the time) and could use that time for interests they did have. AP Stats rekindled interest in math and Stats seminar solidified, so here we are- a kid that has incredibly strong verbal skills with solid math skills - a decent combination.

And more importantly, a kid who took the time to take a few courses in HS that INTERESTED THEM. Rather than just chugging thru 5 APs each year with the everyone "needs to take" mentality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Selingo’s book says calculus is viewed as one of the strongest signals of preparation for an elite college. One of the most prominent college advisors also says that calculus is an important signal and that AP stats is not viewed as favorably (though that this is changing a bit as stats becomes ever more important).

So only applicable if the kid wants to attend a T20 school. Even then, I'm sure there are history majors at Yale who did not take AP Calc---willing to bet some $$ on that.

Around I think it was 97% of Harvard students took calculus in high school. But about a third were not AP. I assume that’s some mix of IB, DE, private schools w/o AP, and something akin to Calculus with Applications. The reason this stat was notable was that a good chunk of American high schools don’t offer any version of calculus.

[Anonymous]

The kids shooting for Ivys at our private take BC calc as juniors, parents aren’t being realistic with the assumption calculus can just be skipped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take the Calc class, as some schools will require that at a minimum attainment level.

What schools REQUIRE calculus for a non-stem kid?

Yeah, what schools require calculus for a History major??!!?

For a history major (and really for anything that isn't STEM or Business), I personally think Statistics is a much more beneficial and useful course.

Calculus not specifically required but more than one math class was.