AP Stats AND Calculus with Applications vs. AP Calc AB

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take the Calc class, as some schools will require that at a minimum attainment level.

What schools REQUIRE calculus for a non-stem kid?

I think they mean it is what will be more likely to get you accepted to a top 30 school. This really depends on what school you are applying to, the likely major interested in and what other parts of the application exist. If the child is applying as an english major to williams or iowa or BU, ( i chose these at random) if they have a lot of experiences that show their passion in english/writing and don't take calc I dont think it will hurt their chances. If they are applying to princeton than maybe it would? I don't even know if it would matter then either if the rest of the application and grades were exceptional.

I am mind blown that there are a lot of kids from this area that aren’t taking calc. It’s required at our all girls private (students must take either regular calc, or AB or BC to graduate). I would think not taking it, if offered, would hurt in the rigor category regardless of future major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take the Calc class, as some schools will require that at a minimum attainment level.

What schools REQUIRE calculus for a non-stem kid?

I think they mean it is what will be more likely to get you accepted to a top 30 school. This really depends on what school you are applying to, the likely major interested in and what other parts of the application exist. If the child is applying as an english major to williams or iowa or BU, ( i chose these at random) if they have a lot of experiences that show their passion in english/writing and don't take calc I dont think it will hurt their chances. If they are applying to princeton than maybe it would? I don't even know if it would matter then either if the rest of the application and grades were exceptional.

This is highly school-dependent. As I posted upthread, Wesleyan promotes the fact that 86% of admitted students have taken calc. I would not have assumed that wesleyan has a strong preference for calc, but clearly they do. Research the schools your kid is interested in.

But that means even at Wesleyan 14 percent have not had calc and I would bet those people applied as english/history major types.
Yes, agree that the OP needs to do research of the schools the child might want to apply to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you suspect your kid is going to have to take calculus in college, strongly recommend they take it first in high school. College classes tend to be very large lectures and move fast. It really helps to have some foundation with the subject.

+1
I was a strong math student who missed the track to Calc in high school, due to changing districts. My parents and I didn't know enough to push for it. I took calc in college 25 years ago and even then about half the class had taken calc in high school. For classes graded on a curve (is that still the case?), it was a huge disadvantage.

I took calc (the easiest calc) in college and it was also on a curve. I basically absorbed 10% of the course. Then again, most colleges have a math placement test at the beginning of the year and they use the placement test to help students figure out which math it makes sense to take.

[Anonymous]

I think the thing to keep in mind, especially for parents remembering their HS days, is the HS math curriculum has been completely rewritten to get college bound kids through Calc during HS. This is now expected, and it should be, because it's the culmination of the teaching in the earlier classes. E.g. in MCPS, there are topics that once would have been part of Algebra 1 which are now not introduced until pre-calc. This is as much renaming as anything, students are hitting the concepts at roughly the same age, but calculus is now a core HS class, just like AP English is a core HS class--for anyone applying to college.

[Anonymous]

Getting back to original question, when people say take calculus in high school, do they mean AP Calc (either) or is calculus with applications (or equivalent non-AP calc) adequate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Getting back to original question, when people say take calculus in high school, do they mean AP Calc (either) or is calculus with applications (or equivalent non-AP calc) adequate?

Calculus with applications is adequate. It doesn't earn college credit but it keeps skills honed for whatever class comes next. To the extent that admissions wants to see calculus senior year, demonstrating college readiness is the real objective. There's always going to be someone else who put more focus on math, a humanities student certainly shouldn't try to compete on that front, but should be a fully formed HS student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take the Calc class, as some schools will require that at a minimum attainment level.

What schools REQUIRE calculus for a non-stem kid?

There are many liberal arts programs that will require calculus as a minimal attainment level for a BA or BS degree. (I do not mean required in HS but as a minimal level of math before graduating college). If your DC takes calculus now, it may allow them to test out of the requirement later in college (especially if they take AP and do well) OR even if they take it in college, they will have had the benefit of being exposed to it already once.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just take what you want. Have seen so many kids try to game the system, take courses they do not want to take, and then they don’t get into their reaches anyway. What’s the takeaway? That life is about making choices that matter to you, or that life is all about trying to get into certain colleges? Which group do you think deals better with rejection and setbacks?

I don’t know about you, but I want my kid to be prepared for college. Course selection does impact that.

A kid who is described as non-STEM and planning a social studies major is highly unlikely to need to take calculus in college. Maybe some courses to fulfill a quantitative requirement but there are usually lots of ways to do this that don't involve calculus. AP stats would be more relevant and more interesting.

Disagree, it was required at my T10 for 90 percent of majors.

I spot checked a couple Ivys to see if government majors would need calculus for any requirements. I didn’t see any. Looks like a stats-type course is typically required either generally or for the major specifically. I think it was Princeton’s that specifically said no math beyond high school algebra needed.

I would expect this sort of math requirement to be listed as part of the general distribution requirements, not necessarily under the major... Clearly some majors will also have math requirements that go beyond...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take the Calc class, as some schools will require that at a minimum attainment level.

What schools REQUIRE calculus for a non-stem kid?

I think they mean it is what will be more likely to get you accepted to a top 30 school. This really depends on what school you are applying to, the likely major interested in and what other parts of the application exist. If the child is applying as an english major to williams or iowa or BU, ( i chose these at random) if they have a lot of experiences that show their passion in english/writing and don't take calc I dont think it will hurt their chances. If they are applying to princeton than maybe it would? I don't even know if it would matter then either if the rest of the application and grades were exceptional.

I'm the PP - and that's not what I meant. I meant they may need to take it in college or at least show they have attained that level of math knowledge via a placement test. EVEN non-stem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just take what you want. Have seen so many kids try to game the system, take courses they do not want to take, and then they don’t get into their reaches anyway. What’s the takeaway? That life is about making choices that matter to you, or that life is all about trying to get into certain colleges? Which group do you think deals better with rejection and setbacks?

I don’t know about you, but I want my kid to be prepared for college. Course selection does impact that.

A kid who is described as non-STEM and planning a social studies major is highly unlikely to need to take calculus in college. Maybe some courses to fulfill a quantitative requirement but there are usually lots of ways to do this that don't involve calculus. AP stats would be more relevant and more interesting.

Disagree, it was required at my T10 for 90 percent of majors.

I spot checked a couple Ivys to see if government majors would need calculus for any requirements. I didn’t see any. Looks like a stats-type course is typically required either generally or for the major specifically. I think it was Princeton’s that specifically said no math beyond high school algebra needed.

I would expect this sort of math requirement to be listed as part of the general distribution requirements, not necessarily under the major... Clearly some majors will also have math requirements that go beyond...

I haven’t seen that require calculus. Here is, as a representative example, what Penn says for Arts & Sciences general ed requirement:

“ Students in the College must complete a course that uses mathematical or statistical analysis of quantitative data as an important method for understanding another subject. Through such study, students learn to think critically about quantitative data and the inferences that can be drawn from these data. They also gain experience with the use of quantitative analysis to interpret empirical data and to test hypotheses.

Courses in calculus and computer science do not fulfill the requirement because these courses do not require students to analyze actual data sets with the goal of evaluating hypotheses or interpreting results. To count toward the Quantitative Data Analysis Requirement, a course must include such data analysis.”

[Anonymous]

Santa Clara spells out which majors require calculus:

“The following majors require Calculus
All Engineering majors
All Business majors
Arts and Sciences:
Biology
Chemistry and Biochemistry
Computer Science
Economics
Environmental Science (not Environmental Studies)
Mathematics
Neuroscience
Physics
Public Health

The following majors do not require Calculus
Arts and Sciences:
Anthropology
Art and Art History
Classics
Communication
English
Environmental Studies
Ethnic Studies
History
Liberal Studies
Modern Languages
Music
Philosophy
Political Science
Psychology
Religious Studies
Sociology
Theatre and Dance
Women and Gender Studies”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where do they want to go? My kid who did not take ANY Calculus in HS but took AP Stats and Stats seminar still got into a good Data Science program with merit - but DC wasn't interested in Ivies or Top 50 USNWR. DC will still have to take Calc in college for major but it didn't prevent them from getting in. It was also helpful that they weren't stressing about Calc during Junior year when they were also taking a full load of other AP classes. FWIW, the kid thought they were going to be liberal arts until they took AP Stats.

Similarly, my kid who did not take any Calculus in HS but took AP Stats (and was stunned to earn a 5 on the exam) was admitted to, and now attends, a T50 school as a social sciences major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take the Calc class, as some schools will require that at a minimum attainment level.

What schools REQUIRE calculus for a non-stem kid?

I think they mean it is what will be more likely to get you accepted to a top 30 school. This really depends on what school you are applying to, the likely major interested in and what other parts of the application exist. If the child is applying as an english major to williams or iowa or BU, ( i chose these at random) if they have a lot of experiences that show their passion in english/writing and don't take calc I dont think it will hurt their chances. If they are applying to princeton than maybe it would? I don't even know if it would matter then either if the rest of the application and grades were exceptional.

I am mind blown that there are a lot of kids from this area that aren’t taking calc. It’s required at our all girls private (students must take either regular calc, or AB or BC to graduate). I would think not taking it, if offered, would hurt in the rigor category regardless of future major.

You are very out of touch with the real world. "on grade level" is taking pre-calculus senior year. I suspect more than 50% of HS students do not take calculus at any level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take the Calc class, as some schools will require that at a minimum attainment level.

What schools REQUIRE calculus for a non-stem kid?

I think they mean it is what will be more likely to get you accepted to a top 30 school. This really depends on what school you are applying to, the likely major interested in and what other parts of the application exist. If the child is applying as an english major to williams or iowa or BU, ( i chose these at random) if they have a lot of experiences that show their passion in english/writing and don't take calc I dont think it will hurt their chances. If they are applying to princeton than maybe it would? I don't even know if it would matter then either if the rest of the application and grades were exceptional.

I am mind blown that there are a lot of kids from this area that aren’t taking calc. It’s required at our all girls private (students must take either regular calc, or AB or BC to graduate). I would think not taking it, if offered, would hurt in the rigor category regardless of future major.

You are very out of touch with the real world. "on grade level" is taking pre-calculus senior year. I suspect more than 50% of HS students do not take calculus at any level.

We know that’s true because only about half of US high schools even offer calculus. But they do around here so it still seems for greatest level of rigor, you need to take calculus, if offered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take the Calc class, as some schools will require that at a minimum attainment level.

What schools REQUIRE calculus for a non-stem kid?

I think they mean it is what will be more likely to get you accepted to a top 30 school. This really depends on what school you are applying to, the likely major interested in and what other parts of the application exist. If the child is applying as an english major to williams or iowa or BU, ( i chose these at random) if they have a lot of experiences that show their passion in english/writing and don't take calc I dont think it will hurt their chances. If they are applying to princeton than maybe it would? I don't even know if it would matter then either if the rest of the application and grades were exceptional.

I am mind blown that there are a lot of kids from this area that aren’t taking calc. It’s required at our all girls private (students must take either regular calc, or AB or BC to graduate). I would think not taking it, if offered, would hurt in the rigor category regardless of future major.

You are very out of touch with the real world. "on grade level" is taking pre-calculus senior year. I suspect more than 50% of HS students do not take calculus at any level.

We know that’s true because only about half of US high schools even offer calculus. But they do around here so it still seems for greatest level of rigor, you need to take calculus, if offered.

Also on the college forum, the sub-population of interest is college bound students.