AP Stats AND Calculus with Applications vs. AP Calc AB

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Selingo’s book says calculus is viewed as one of the strongest signals of preparation for an elite college. One of the most prominent college advisors also says that calculus is an important signal and that AP stats is not viewed as favorably (though that this is changing a bit as stats becomes ever more important).

So only applicable if the kid wants to attend a T20 school. Even then, I'm sure there are history majors at Yale who did not take AP Calc---willing to bet some $$ on that.

Around I think it was 97% of Harvard students took calculus in high school. But about a third were not AP. I assume that’s some mix of IB, DE, private schools w/o AP, and something akin to Calculus with Applications. The reason this stat was notable was that a good chunk of American high schools don’t offer any version of calculus.

Found my source - the Selingo book -
“ In 2019, 67 percent of freshmen at Harvard reported they took AP Calculus in high school, and another 30 percent took some kind of calculus class. That’s all first-year students at Harvard, no matter their major. But consider this: only half of American high schools offer a calculus course.”

[Anonymous]

Don't let your child take AP Stats WITH another math class unless they're good at math and write decently. I teach AP Stats and we have a fair number of struggling students who underestimated the class., all the more so if they're taking another math class. The math isn't complicated but it's a class that requires you to think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don't let your child take AP Stats WITH another math class unless they're good at math and write decently. I teach AP Stats and we have a fair number of struggling students who underestimated the class., all the more so if they're taking another math class. The math isn't complicated but it's a class that requires you to think.

Maybe a dumb question but how do you know your kid is good enough in math? Assuming kid is situated as in OP - in regular pre Calc as a junior so not an advanced math student. Is there an SAT score that would so indicate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't let your child take AP Stats WITH another math class unless they're good at math and write decently. I teach AP Stats and we have a fair number of struggling students who underestimated the class., all the more so if they're taking another math class. The math isn't complicated but it's a class that requires you to think.

Maybe a dumb question but how do you know your kid is good enough in math? Assuming kid is situated as in OP - in regular pre Calc as a junior so not an advanced math student. Is there an SAT score that would so indicate?

It's hard to tell without knowing the student, but as a rule of thumb I would say that they shouldn't take two classes unless they have an A in precalc without retakes. And don't take AP Stats unless they have a B in precalc without retakes. If the grade is lower, take regular Stats instead to start preparing for college-level stats once they go to college. Or take applied Calc, but not both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't let your child take AP Stats WITH another math class unless they're good at math and write decently. I teach AP Stats and we have a fair number of struggling students who underestimated the class., all the more so if they're taking another math class. The math isn't complicated but it's a class that requires you to think.

Maybe a dumb question but how do you know your kid is good enough in math? Assuming kid is situated as in OP - in regular pre Calc as a junior so not an advanced math student. Is there an SAT score that would so indicate?

It's hard to tell without knowing the student, but as a rule of thumb I would say that they shouldn't take two classes unless they have an A in precalc without retakes. And don't take AP Stats unless they have a B in precalc without retakes. If the grade is lower, take regular Stats instead to start preparing for college-level stats once they go to college. Or take applied Calc, but not both.

Thanks! DC has a high A in regular pre calc with no retakes. Honors Algebra 2 was a hard fought B first semester but A second.

[Anonymous]

AP Calc BC is by far more difficult than the others, so it will look better on applications, in the sense that your kid will have challenged themselves with the harder class, but if they don't get a good grade on it, it will also bring down their GPA...

[Anonymous]

^ Sorry, just saw it was Calc AB! I'd still take Calculus, since it's good general knowledge. I need to go to bed...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AP Calc BC is by far more difficult than the others, so it will look better on applications, in the sense that your kid will have challenged themselves with the harder class, but if they don't get a good grade on it, it will also bring down their GPA...

That’s not an available pathway at our school coming out of regular pre Calc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ Sorry, just saw it was Calc AB! I'd still take Calculus, since it's good general knowledge. I need to go to bed...

In no universe is calculus better "general knowledge" than statistics. Go to bed already.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where do they want to go? My kid who did not take ANY Calculus in HS but took AP Stats and Stats seminar still got into a good Data Science program with merit - but DC wasn't interested in Ivies or Top 50 USNWR. DC will still have to take Calc in college for major but it didn't prevent them from getting in. It was also helpful that they weren't stressing about Calc during Junior year when they were also taking a full load of other AP classes. FWIW, the kid thought they were going to be liberal arts until they took AP Stats.

Did not know Data Science works for kids weak at math, is there a lot of statistics? College Statistic has tons of calculus

College stats for the social sciences did not include any calculus at UMCP. That was 30 years ago, but it's hard to think of a reason why that would have changed.

Presumably a data sciences major would be taking more than one stats class, including upper level classes.

+1 that’s what I thought, more like a stat minor

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ Sorry, just saw it was Calc AB! I'd still take Calculus, since it's good general knowledge. I need to go to bed...

In no universe is calculus better "general knowledge" than statistics. Go to bed already.

Speak for yourself and your own kid. You're not qualified to advise.

[Anonymous]

I teach AP Stats. For a humanities major, I think it is the best possible math course you could sign up for. Being able to interpret studies is so valuable! The calculations aren't hard (you get a calculator and formula sheet for everything) but the reading/writing/critical thinking skills needed are high. I often feel like I'm teaching English and science along with statistics.

If his school/major is going to require calc, then take it in high school because that is a beast of a class to take freshman year with no foundation. Otherwise, stick to stats--nearly every major requires some form of statistics and AP is a great baseline for that.

I have students last year without calc who got into (what I would consider) good schools--UVA, UMCP, Auburn, Clemson, NYU. Most were psych or history or biology majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I teach AP Stats. For a humanities major, I think it is the best possible math course you could sign up for. Being able to interpret studies is so valuable! The calculations aren't hard (you get a calculator and formula sheet for everything) but the reading/writing/critical thinking skills needed are high. I often feel like I'm teaching English and science along with statistics.

If his school/major is going to require calc, then take it in high school because that is a beast of a class to take freshman year with no foundation. Otherwise, stick to stats--nearly every major requires some form of statistics and AP is a great baseline for that.

I have students last year without calc who got into (what I would consider) good schools--UVA, UMCP, Auburn, Clemson, NYU. Most were psych or history or biology majors.

This. It's a great class, but requires a lot of reading, writing and critical thinking to select the correct math to solve the word problems. If your child thinks of math class as a procedural chore (" I line up these two things and plug that third thing in and square it to get the answer"), have them take regular Prob/Stats first to get used to statistics at a beginner pace. Don't assume that AP Stats is an easy class for students who can't handle or aren't ready for calculus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take the Calc class, as some schools will require that at a minimum attainment level.

What schools REQUIRE calculus for a non-stem kid?

I think they mean it is what will be more likely to get you accepted to a top 30 school. This really depends on what school you are applying to, the likely major interested in and what other parts of the application exist. If the child is applying as an english major to williams or iowa or BU, ( i chose these at random) if they have a lot of experiences that show their passion in english/writing and don't take calc I dont think it will hurt their chances. If they are applying to princeton than maybe it would? I don't even know if it would matter then either if the rest of the application and grades were exceptional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take the Calc class, as some schools will require that at a minimum attainment level.

What schools REQUIRE calculus for a non-stem kid?

I think they mean it is what will be more likely to get you accepted to a top 30 school. This really depends on what school you are applying to, the likely major interested in and what other parts of the application exist. If the child is applying as an english major to williams or iowa or BU, ( i chose these at random) if they have a lot of experiences that show their passion in english/writing and don't take calc I dont think it will hurt their chances. If they are applying to princeton than maybe it would? I don't even know if it would matter then either if the rest of the application and grades were exceptional.

This is highly school-dependent. As I posted upthread, Wesleyan promotes the fact that 86% of admitted students have taken calc. I would not have assumed that wesleyan has a strong preference for calc, but clearly they do. Research the schools your kid is interested in.