Attention all disgruntled parents who red-shirted...

[Anonymous]

Interesting information for the discussion. Seems like the redshirting parents may be right:


Swiss psychologist Jean Piaget, well known for his pedagogical studies, formulated three stages of educational development- preoperational (ages 2-7), concrete operational (ages 7-12), and formal operational (age 12 and up). Piaget based this breakdown of thinking stages upon much research and personal observation.


During the stage Piaget dubbed, 'preoperational' children are preoccupied with magical thinking. During this time they are acquiring motor skills. They cannot conserve or utilize logical thinking. Therefore during this time much of what would be taught them during a regular school setting would be pointless.


During the 'concrete operational stage' is when school really should begin. This is when children begin to think logically.


Children who have not begun kindergarten until age 7 have suffered no damage other than being a little older than their classmates. But when a child first comes to school at the age of 7 his faculties are ready to learn. He has the hand eye coordination that he didn't have at age 5 so he learns much quicker. He doesn't develop a lifetime resentment toward learning by being pushed before he is ready. Children who start school at age 7 can not only catch up with their peers who started at 5, but can surpass them as well.

[Anonymous]

Absent some sort of diagnosed developmental disability, I can't understand why parents are choosing to redshirt/pre-flunk their children. Imagine telling your child, "I realize that you don't have a diagnosed developmental disability. However, I'm going to pre-flunk you because I assume that if you went to Kindergarten on time, you would just flunk anyway."

What a way to damage a child's self esteem!

[Anonymous]

PP, I agree with you. While obviously not all red-shirted kids will feel this way, I think that many will, whether or not they ever share that thought with their parents. It was a primary reason we decided not to redshirt our young for grade girl who struggles socially, but is acadmically highly capable. It would be very hard for *her* to see children younger than her being just as capable in the classroom while at the same time being told thay she needed more time. For some children, I think this can be very damaging. She's in 4th grade now and so far it is going about as we expected, although she still struggles socially. But I can now see that this is part of her and we are getting her extra support for that. A year held back would have made no difference, because what she needs is specific, targeted intervention in this area.

[Anonymous]

I have seen no evidence that kids are discussing who is smarter because they are older or younger. Social issues are much harder and Middle school can be a tough place for kids with social issues. Just because you are older doesn't mean you will be at the top of the class academically. At DS school none of the redshirted kids are in the top classes nor at the top of the grade academically. Being smart is one aspect but it is also how you manage the work, organize yourself, have good study skills, etc. All of the top students are the most serious students, not just the smartest.

[Anonymous]

I have seen evidence that pre-flunked children do wonder why they aren't in a grade with their chronological peers, and I have seen kids asking the red-shirted kids why they are so much older.

[Anonymous]

Sorry but I have been in the private school system for 9 years and I have yet to see kids spend much time "discussing" this issue. They are more concerned with who got what on the test, who plays best in what sport they are doing and what party they are going to. This is a parent generated issue in a long series of "why my wonderful, smart, perfect, unbelievable at (insert sport) isn't getting something they want them to have. If parents would just stop helicopter parenting and let these kids learn to function on their own and deal with disappointment every once in awhile, there would not be so many self entitled children who find it impossible to get along with other kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have seen evidence that pre-flunked children do wonder why they aren't in a grade with their chronological peers, and I have seen kids asking the red-shirted kids why they are so much older.

What a load.

Most redshirted kids are boys who have late summer or early fall birthdays. The cutoff in VA is Sept. 30. Both my sons have fall birthdays. They just miss the cutoff and will be going to K on time (i.e., I don't have to redshirt). But the "redshirted" kids are all of 1-3 months older than my sons. Big f*ing deal. These are kids my sons have played with for a long time. Quite frankly, they are more in his age group than kids 8-10 months YOUNGER!

And your use of "pre-flunked" is just plain obnoxious. I'm not a parent who is redshirting her children, but I find you to be quite the jackass. Perhaps you would have benefited yourself from being redshirted...you certainly could use a little bit more maturity.

[Anonymous]

pp, those redshirted boys may be only a few months older than yoru child, but they are 10 to 12 months older than kids like my DD, who have summer birthdays and started school on time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen evidence that pre-flunked children do wonder why they aren't in a grade with their chronological peers, and I have seen kids asking the red-shirted kids why they are so much older.

What a load.

Most redshirted kids are boys who have late summer or early fall birthdays. The cutoff in VA is Sept. 30. Both my sons have fall birthdays. They just miss the cutoff and will be going to K on time (i.e., I don't have to redshirt). But the "redshirted" kids are all of 1-3 months older than my sons. Big f*ing deal. These are kids my sons have played with for a long time. Quite frankly, they are more in his age group than kids 8-10 months YOUNGER!

And your use of "pre-flunked" is just plain obnoxious. I'm not a parent who is redshirting her children, but I find you to be quite the jackass. Perhaps you would have benefited yourself from being redshirted...you certainly could use a little bit more maturity.

What a load. Many redshirted kids are boys who have late spring or late winter or early spring birthdays. At many schools the redshirted kids range Jan - Sept with the bulk March-Sept. The standard VA public school isn't really part of this convo jacka$$.

[Anonymous]

^^^ What she said.

Most of the objection is about kids who are being pre-flunked by their parents. These are kids with December to May birthdays who are more than a year older than kids in their class.

No one is openly objecting to summer birthdays, particularly boys, but when helicopter parents are holding their kids back to give some perceived advantage it is disruptive to the dynamics of a class which is designed to have a 12 months chronological spread in it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a parent generated issue in a long series of "why my wonderful, smart, perfect, unbelievable at (insert sport) isn't getting something they want them to have. If parents would just stop helicopter parenting and let these kids learn to function on their own and deal with disappointment every once in awhile, there would not be so many self entitled children who find it impossible to get along with other kids.

Who are the "helicopter parents"? The ones who are redshirting their kids for no other reason but to give them the "gift of time", or the ones whose kids are appropriately placed, but are enduring classroom and social issues because the bored, older kids are disruptive in class?

[Anonymous]

who says the disruptive kids are the bored older kids? The disruptive kids are the ones who are socially immature whether that be an older kid or younger kids. They are looking for attention and to be seen as "cool" by their other classmates. The helicopter parents can be either side. The ones complaining about all the older kids taking their kids place on a basketball team or the ones that think they can give little johnny an advantage by being older. That attitude on both sides stink. Most of the parents deciding to do it, do it for legitimate reasons and are hoping it benefits their kid into being the most successful student they are capable of. STOP judging other parents for their decisions. Just worry about your own kid and stop comparing him to others. If these kids are truly disrupting the class, that is a behavior issue the teacher should deal with for any age student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These are kids with December to May birthdays who are more than a year older than kids in their class.

BS. I'll grant you some May birthdays as a possibility, but please identify for us all which classes in any DC-area school have December-April redshirts, and how many there are. I'm sure there must be some, but I'd be willing to bet people here will identify less than 10. Go ahead, start telling us how many you can identify.

I think all these breathless claims of a redshirting epidemic are way overblown.

Prove it.

[Anonymous]

I don't need an epidemic. The two tall, disruptive ones in DD's clss are plenty. Of course, the other kids think they are cool, what with them being older and bigger and full of all sorts of great ideas for getting into trouble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:pp, those redshirted boys may be only a few months older than yoru child, but they are 10 to 12 months older than kids like my DD, who have summer birthdays and started school on time.

How is that appreciably worse than the age difference between your DD and PP's son, who met the cutoff? In other words, the age difference between her sent-on-time son and your DD is ten months, and the difference between his not-sent-on-time friend and your DD is eleven months.

So what?