Full-pay advantage: can someone break this down?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Full pay is an incredible huge advantage that must people who are full pay don’t like to admit.

So far it hasn't helped DS in admissions.

Same here.
-parent of a very high stats kid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the article about Trinity College:

There were two numbers that Pérez knew he needed to hit on May 1, the last day that admitted students could accept or reject Trinity’s offer of admission. The first number was the size of the class, which had to be as close as possible to 600 students. The second number, even more pressing, was the combined tuition revenue those 600 students needed to bring in. And back in February, Trinity’s board of trustees decided on the tuition target for the class of 2021: $19 million.

They need a certain amount of revenue which means an average across all students or a certain number of full pay for example.

For the OP, imagine a series of buckets of applicants, some by geography or gender or grades or athletes or full pay, the schools need a basic amount from each bucket to make a class. So your student may be great, but if they need a full ride and there are not spots left, it can be tough. The article shows how this works at one point and is worth your time.

This is interesting. Does the Trinity scenario apply to HYPS type of schools? I.e., Do the very top schools also have the "two numbers" that Admissions need to hit?

It doesn’t apply to need blind schools at all

It actually does for who they take off the wait list.

[Anonymous]

These days it seems that aside from a few legacy admissions, schools are using ED to fill their priorities—sports, 1st gen, racial and socioeconomic diversity. we have heard that the welcome for “full pay” diversity may come later in the spring with regular admissions and wait list.

[Anonymous]

Full pay helps as a nudge but its not a guarantee. You kid must still fit the criteria, have the grades, have the stats to stay in the consideration pile. Full pay will not overcome a weak candidate compared to the rest of the applicant pool

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the article about Trinity College:

There were two numbers that Pérez knew he needed to hit on May 1, the last day that admitted students could accept or reject Trinity’s offer of admission. The first number was the size of the class, which had to be as close as possible to 600 students. The second number, even more pressing, was the combined tuition revenue those 600 students needed to bring in. And back in February, Trinity’s board of trustees decided on the tuition target for the class of 2021: $19 million.

They need a certain amount of revenue which means an average across all students or a certain number of full pay for example.

For the OP, imagine a series of buckets of applicants, some by geography or gender or grades or athletes or full pay, the schools need a basic amount from each bucket to make a class. So your student may be great, but if they need a full ride and there are not spots left, it can be tough. The article shows how this works at one point and is worth your time.

This is interesting. Does the Trinity scenario apply to HYPS type of schools? I.e., Do the very top schools also have the "two numbers" that Admissions need to hit?

It doesn’t apply to need blind schools at all

It actually does for who they take off the wait list.

Not while there is a pending class action (at least for members of the 568 cartel)

[Anonymous]

We have one at Brown and one at MIT and I don't think it helped at all. Maybe a 7 or 8 figure donation but full pay? No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have one at Brown and one at MIT and I don't think it helped at all. Maybe a 7 or 8 figure donation but full pay? No.

Those schools are need blind. That’s not what the thread is about.

Most schools have much smaller endowments than the ones you list, and they have limited aid they can give out.

[Anonymous]

So, do we fill out the FAFSA or not?? The counselor says to fill it out. It will show that we don’t qualify for any money but is that good or better to not fill it out?

[Anonymous]

It didn’t help my kid. She got waitlisted/rejected at schools where she was at the 75% for ACT/GPA.

[Anonymous]

In addition to the separate lists for donors and “development cases,” note that most (all?) “need blind” schools are not need blind for the wait list. This was raised in the antitrust suit against the 16 schools that are part of the “568 President’s Group.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/10/us/financial-aid-lawsuit-colleges.html

https://www.wsj.com/articles/yale-georgetown-other-top-schools-illegally-collude-to-limit-student-financial-aid-lawsuit-alleges-11641829659

Also note that George Washington was caught violating their supposed “need blind” policy a few years ago. After the admissions office made their decisions re: admits vs. waitlist vs. rejects on a “need blind” basis, the higher ups would shuffle the list to move full pay kids from the wait list up the admitted list and move the kids with need to the wait list. After the practice was outed, they changed the description of their policy to “need aware.”

As someone else pointed out, it is telling that the number of full pay vs. scholarship students stays remarkably consistent at these “need blind” schools over the years.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/10/22/george-washington-u-admits-it-incorrectly-told-applicants-it-was-need-blind

https://www.gwhatchet.com/2013/10/21/gw-misrepresented-admissions-and-financial-aid-policy-for-years/

https://www.propublica.org/article/george-washington-university-has-for-years-claimed-to-be-need-blind.-its-no

“We have our internal preliminary decision of admit or waitlist or deny, and then we run the numbers and then we go, ‘Okay, we have to do a little bit of shuffling here,’” Koehler said. She said the decision only impacts students who are not among GW’s top applicants.

But for hundreds of students each year, those second-round decisions turn an acceptance into an almost-certain rejection. In 2012, less than 1 percent of students offered a spot on the waitlist got into GW.

Several admissions and financial aid experts said GW’s admissions policy should not have been characterized as need-blind.

Richard Vedder, director of the Center for College Affordability and Productivity, called GW’s past claims “dishonest.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, do we fill out the FAFSA or not?? The counselor says to fill it out. It will show that we don’t qualify for any money but is that good or better to not fill it out?

If you don’t qualify, don’t fill it out. No FAFSA signifies to the college that you are definitely full pay.

[Anonymous]

It’s a major help at schools that are not need blind. They aren’t need blind for a reason. Even very good schools aren’t need blind - I went to bates college and I don’t think it is need blind despite being a highly selective college.

[Anonymous]

Yield ~ Colleges want to admit the kids most likely to enroll. Colleges are less likely to admit kids who will enroll only under certain (financial) circumstances. And Drop-Outs/Not Graduating on Time ~ that doesn't look good for the college. Colleges want to be confident that the student won't stop their education, at that college, because of financial constraints.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, do we fill out the FAFSA or not?? The counselor says to fill it out. It will show that we don’t qualify for any money but is that good or better to not fill it out?

If you don’t qualify, don’t fill it out. No FAFSA signifies to the college that you are definitely full pay.

But one could pretend to be full pay, get admitted and then complete the FAFSA, couldn't they?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, do we fill out the FAFSA or not?? The counselor says to fill it out. It will show that we don’t qualify for any money but is that good or better to not fill it out?

If you don’t qualify, don’t fill it out. No FAFSA signifies to the college that you are definitely full pay.

But one could pretend to be full pay, get admitted and then complete the FAFSA, couldn't they?

Not for year 1.