Full-pay advantage: can someone break this down?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When admissions aren't need-blind, how much of an advantage can full pay be? Does it differ at more competitive vs. less competitive schools? Is there an advantage to being able to pay more ( = having a higher notional EFC) even if not quite all?

Thanks in advance for any insights. As you can see here we are new to this.

I can't say about others but Asian child had $0 aid, high EFC didn't help at Ivies even with top notch stats. It probably helps at lower ranking privates.

+1. For some f'cked up reason, top schools would rather have a full-pay Chinese student rather than a full-pay Chinese American kid. Go figure.

are the international kids charged higher tuition than the us citizens?

No, however the admission is not need blind, even at the Ivys and other top schools.

Dartmouth recently announced its move to need blind for international students.

[Anonymous]

Full pay here, never filled out a fafsa for 3 kids. Still were gifted with merit money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When admissions aren't need-blind, how much of an advantage can full pay be? Does it differ at more competitive vs. less competitive schools? Is there an advantage to being able to pay more ( = having a higher notional EFC) even if not quite all?

Thanks in advance for any insights. As you can see here we are new to this.

I can't say about others but Asian child had $0 aid, high EFC didn't help at Ivies even with top notch stats. It probably helps at lower ranking privates.

+1. For some f'cked up reason, top schools would rather have a full-pay Chinese student rather than a full-pay Chinese American kid. Go figure.

are the international kids charged higher tuition than the us citizens?

No, however the admission is not need blind, even at the Ivys and other top schools.

Dartmouth recently announced its move to need blind for international students.

Seriously? Every international kid will qualify for need based aid then. How will they ever verify income/assets of their parents? So easy to hide them in a foreign country.

[Anonymous]

Every school is different, so there is no one right answer. Have your student (not you) call Financial Aid and ask if FAFSA and CSS (I think those are the right initials, could be wrong, it was last year) are needed for merit aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every school is different, so there is no one right answer. Have your student (not you) call Financial Aid and ask if FAFSA and CSS (I think those are the right initials, could be wrong, it was last year) are needed for merit aid.

This information should also be available on the school's website.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It didn’t help my kid. She got waitlisted/rejected at schools where she was at the 75% for ACT/GPA.

Still waiting to hear from other schools? Or is this from a prior cycle? If the latter, where did she end up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don't count on full pay getting your child in - these days, schools in the top 30, maybe even top 50 are a complete and total crap shoot. Between lots of people having lots of money, and test scores not required, and common app making it super easy to apply to dozens of colleges with the click of a button and a credit card, nothing is a guarantee.

Full pay family here, who's child is at a safety school - 2021 graduate. Fortunately, it was her 2nd choice and she's very happy.

What type of schools were your DC's reach?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It didn’t help my kid. She got waitlisted/rejected at schools where she was at the 75% for ACT/GPA.

Still waiting to hear from other schools? Or is this from a prior cycle? If the latter, where did she end up?

Last year. Ended up at Pitt with some merit aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When admissions aren't need-blind, how much of an advantage can full pay be? Does it differ at more competitive vs. less competitive schools? Is there an advantage to being able to pay more ( = having a higher notional EFC) even if not quite all?

Thanks in advance for any insights. As you can see here we are new to this.

I can't say about others but Asian child had $0 aid, high EFC didn't help at Ivies even with top notch stats. It probably helps at lower ranking privates.

+1. For some f'cked up reason, top schools would rather have a full-pay Chinese student rather than a full-pay Chinese American kid. Go figure.

are the international kids charged higher tuition than the us citizens?

No, however the admission is not need blind, even at the Ivys and other top schools.

Dartmouth recently announced its move to need blind for international students.

I have mixed feelings about this. As an international PhD student, I benefited from a full ride at an ivy. No chance I could afford even 10% of tuition. And to be honest back then American students in PhD programs were not competitive and US would start falling behind if these universities were not bringing in top academic talent from abroad. I don’t think this is necessary at the undergrad level. Plus they will be competing with my kids at this point and probably winning not because they are academically stronger but just because they are different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Full pay is an incredible huge advantage that must people who are full pay don’t like to admit.

This 100%. The full pay equation per class has always been a factor, but is even more important now as schools address the delta from Covid spending and loss. Full pay, especially ED, is a significant advantage.

- What's the best way to demonstrate full pay? Fill out the FAFSA so they know how much you have or not complete the FAFSA at all?
- Is there a list of full pay schools or is it something you need to suss out by reading each school's profile?

Not sure how current it is but I Googled and found this:

The following colleges are need-blind and meet 100% of US applicants’ demonstrated need.

Amherst College
Barnard College
Boston College
Bowdoin College
Brown University
California Institute of Technology
Claremont McKenna College
College of the Holy Cross
Columbia College, Columbia University
Cornell University
Curtis Institute of Music
Dartmouth College
Davidson College
Duke University
Georgetown University
Grinnell College
Hamilton College
Harvard College
Harvey Mudd College
Johns Hopkins University
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Middlebury College
Minerva Schools at KGI
Northwestern University
Olin College
Pomona College
Princeton University
Rice University
Soka University of America
Stanford University
Swarthmore College
University of Chicago
University of Michigan (in-state students only)
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
University of Notre Dame
University of Pennsylvania
University of Richmond
University of Southern California
University of Virginia
Vanderbilt University
Vassar College
Wellesley College
Williams College
Yale University


The following colleges have need-blind admissions but do not meet 100% of your financial need. That does not necessarily mean they will be unaffordable to you!

Babson College
Baylor University
Boston University
Bucknell University
Carnegie Mellon University
Cooper Union
Denison University
Earlham College
Fordham University
Hampshire College
Ithaca College
New York University
Saint Louis University
Santa Clara University
Southern Methodist University
St. John's College
St. John's University
St. Lawrence University
Syracuse University
Texas Christian University
University of Miami
University of San Diego

https://www.edmit.me/blog/colleges-and-universities-that-are-need-blind

[Anonymous]

^^^ I'm assuming any schools not on this list would be "need aware" and potentially give some advantage to full-pay students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, do we fill out the FAFSA or not?? The counselor says to fill it out. It will show that we don’t qualify for any money but is that good or better to not fill it out?

If you don’t qualify, don’t fill it out. No FAFSA signifies to the college that you are definitely full pay.

We were told to fill it out for one of the schools to qualify for merit aid (didn't make a ton of sense to me, but whatever). Do the schools see what the EFC is? I'd think them seeing a half million EFC might be a similarly good signal that we are full pay. But, if they don't see the EFC, then we might have screwed ourselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, do we fill out the FAFSA or not?? The counselor says to fill it out. It will show that we don’t qualify for any money but is that good or better to not fill it out?

There is no clear answer. I suspect if the fafsa shows you can afford, then it may not make a difference. We filled out fafsa but only checked the applying for aid box at need blind & safety schools where we were hoping for merit scholarships.

This is the answer. Filling out the FAFSA doesn't hurt you if it shows that you don't qualify for aid and you have not checked the applying for financial aid box on the common app. Some schools require the FAFSA for merit, and some do not. Also, you don't need to check the applying for financial aid box to qualify for merit aid.

Our EFC was well over $100k a year (I didn't know it could go that high), but I filled out the FAFSA because DC's college advisor suggested that it was needed for merit at one of their schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren’t most top schools need blind now ? It doesn’t seem like full pay helps at top schools

I think a lot of schools moved away from need blind admissions - especially as the costs have risen and if they don’t have a really big endowment. Schools like Colby and I believe Holy Cross have shifted to being need aware https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2019/05/13/college-holy-cross-abandons-need-blind-admissions. There are 4 possibilities- Need Blind and meets full need, need blind does not meet full need, need aware and meets full need and need aware does not meet full need.

Need aware means they look at need as part of the admission decision. They may look at how much you need, is the EFC 20K or is it 60K or can you pay it all. As another poster mentioned - they are keeping a running total of the offers they extend with the amount of aid and models on the likelihood of accepting working towards the number they need for revenue. The bigger advantage is applying ED if you are full pay so you get the boost of the school knowing if they select your child, they are planning to attend.

Also, need blind can turn need aware for waitlisted students. Barnard does this as their official published policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When admissions aren't need-blind, how much of an advantage can full pay be? Does it differ at more competitive vs. less competitive schools? Is there an advantage to being able to pay more ( = having a higher notional EFC) even if not quite all?

Thanks in advance for any insights. As you can see here we are new to this.

I can't say about others but Asian child had $0 aid, high EFC didn't help at Ivies even with top notch stats. It probably helps at lower ranking privates.

+1. For some f'cked up reason, top schools would rather have a full-pay Chinese student rather than a full-pay Chinese American kid. Go figure.

Chinese international students don't cuss on campus, unlike moneyed (ugly) Americans. They treat their university buildings like they are in a catholic church or a Buddhist temple. It's a free country, so everyone's free to cuss. But do you really want to do that inside sacred buildings?