Big Law and conspicuous shows of wealth

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have empathy. They're new money and don't know how to handle it. They're probably new money from Ohio or somewhere, which is even worse.

This actually made me lol.

Me too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lots of Big Law folks here. Lots of money in Big Law. I'm from an "old money" fiscally conservative family, so my question if more about culture than resources. I have several friends (3) in Big Law who are quite showy, always buying gifts for me and my kids (and everyone else in their circle). Celebrations with them are always over the top. At times it makes me uncomfortable. I'm positive it makes some friends in our larger social circle uncomfortable. It might come from a place of insecurity, I don't really know. These are very kind, smart folks, and I enjoy their company, but not necessarily this particular aspect of our friendship. Should I just ignore it? Give a subtle hint (if so, how)? If it is coming from a place of insecurity, I don't want to make that feeling worse. For now, I do ignore it.

A subtle hint of what? Your disapproval of their parties? It’s their party! Go and have fun or politely decline. Other than that it’s none of your business.

If the gift giving makes you uncomfortable, you can graciously receive the gifts and then some other time say “I’m really appreciative of the gifts you’ve given us. But I’m worried we can’t reciprocate. Could we set some guard rails, like a value limit or only doing birthday gifts?”

[Anonymous]

I love people who throw parties. What is there to feel uncomfortable about?

I like to host. I don’t think it is over the top but I guess it is all relative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I want to know more about OP. OP, do you work? What is your relationship to “old money” - how far back are we talking, and about how much? Why does being treated to a gift or being a guest at a nice party make you feel uncomfortable, and why do you assume others also feel uncomfortable? Why do you single out Big Law, and is it really the case they are a legion (as opposed to you just reacting to one example)?

I find the psychology of “old money” fascinating.

I don’t. I have two high WASP friends — the kind with ancestral portraits hanging in their homes, like museum quality ones — and I’m embarrassed for them when they entertain. There is never enough food, and it is cheap quality. Meanwhile you are sitting on very expensive furniture. Just embarrassing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want to know more about OP. OP, do you work? What is your relationship to “old money” - how far back are we talking, and about how much? Why does being treated to a gift or being a guest at a nice party make you feel uncomfortable, and why do you assume others also feel uncomfortable? Why do you single out Big Law, and is it really the case they are a legion (as opposed to you just reacting to one example)?

I find the psychology of “old money” fascinating.

I don’t. I have two high WASP friends — the kind with ancestral portraits hanging in their homes, like museum quality ones — and I’m embarrassed for them when they entertain. There is never enough food, and it is cheap quality. Meanwhile you are sitting on very expensive furniture. Just embarrassing.

Okay to me that just seems hilarious, like the perfect setup for a dramedy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want to know more about OP. OP, do you work? What is your relationship to “old money” - how far back are we talking, and about how much? Why does being treated to a gift or being a guest at a nice party make you feel uncomfortable, and why do you assume others also feel uncomfortable? Why do you single out Big Law, and is it really the case they are a legion (as opposed to you just reacting to one example)?

I find the psychology of “old money” fascinating.

I don’t. I have two high WASP friends — the kind with ancestral portraits hanging in their homes, like museum quality ones — and I’m embarrassed for them when they entertain. There is never enough food, and it is cheap quality. Meanwhile you are sitting on very expensive furniture. Just embarrassing.

Okay to me that just seems hilarious, like the perfect setup for a dramedy.

It's called Knives Out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lots of Big Law folks here. Lots of money in Big Law. I'm from an "old money" fiscally conservative family, so my question if more about culture than resources. I have several friends (3) in Big Law who are quite showy, always buying gifts for me and my kids (and everyone else in their circle). Celebrations with them are always over the top. At times it makes me uncomfortable. I'm positive it makes some friends in our larger social circle uncomfortable. It might come from a place of insecurity, I don't really know. These are very kind, smart folks, and I enjoy their company, but not necessarily this particular aspect of our friendship. Should I just ignore it? Give a subtle hint (if so, how)? If it is coming from a place of insecurity, I don't want to make that feeling worse. For now, I do ignore it.

So I went to Choate (but am UMC) and tons of the actual “old money” kids went into Big Law. Not long-term of course but for a year or two. So it has nothing to do with that. Sounds to me like you have generous friends that don’t realize what a snobby weirdo you are. Tragic for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are from old money can you really say there’s “lots of money” in big law?

Not even sure what old money means in this context.

Met very few biglaw families like this. They tend more to live large but as a family.

Maybe it’s just my circle but I don’t even know many big law attorneys who really live large. I can think of 3: two who are very high up in their firms and one who has a trust fund (the one with a trust fund doesn’t live conspicuously, but she does all the wealthy things, rather than having to pick and choose like most big law attorneys do).

Really. 20 year partners mostly have $2 million plus homes, beach house, possibly another house 1-3 country clubs. Nice expensive cars -- Mercedes, BMW, mostly fly themselves and family first class. Europe and Caribbean every year. If they ski -- then that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are from old money can you really say there’s “lots of money” in big law?

Not even sure what old money means in this context.

Met very few biglaw families like this. They tend more to live large but as a family.

Maybe it’s just my circle but I don’t even know many big law attorneys who really live large. I can think of 3: two who are very high up in their firms and one who has a trust fund (the one with a trust fund doesn’t live conspicuously, but she does all the wealthy things, rather than having to pick and choose like most big law attorneys do).

Really. 20 year partners mostly have $2 million plus homes, beach house, possibly another house 1-3 country clubs. Nice expensive cars -- Mercedes, BMW, mostly fly themselves and family first class. Europe and Caribbean every year. If they ski -- then that.

? I've never known a DC-based partner who lives like this and both me and my husband have been in biglaw 10 years

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of Big Law folks here. Lots of money in Big Law. I'm from an "old money" fiscally conservative family, so my question if more about culture than resources. I have several friends (3) in Big Law who are quite showy, always buying gifts for me and my kids (and everyone else in their circle). Celebrations with them are always over the top. At times it makes me uncomfortable. I'm positive it makes some friends in our larger social circle uncomfortable. It might come from a place of insecurity, I don't really know. These are very kind, smart folks, and I enjoy their company, but not necessarily this particular aspect of our friendship. Should I just ignore it? Give a subtle hint (if so, how)? If it is coming from a place of insecurity, I don't want to make that feeling worse. For now, I do ignore it.

So I went to Choate (but am UMC) and tons of the actual “old money” kids went into Big Law. Not long-term of course but for a year or two. So it has nothing to do with that. Sounds to me like you have generous friends that don’t realize what a snobby weirdo you are. Tragic for them.

Many of the long term partners I know at white shoe firms went to choate and the like and Princeton, yale, etc. Not sure what you’re talking about.

[Anonymous]

OP sounds like the worst form of reverse snob herself.
OP go ahead and drop that subtle hint you think your friends are too showy. I’m sure they will thank you for the update.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are from old money can you really say there’s “lots of money” in big law?

Not even sure what old money means in this context.

Met very few biglaw families like this. They tend more to live large but as a family.

Maybe it’s just my circle but I don’t even know many big law attorneys who really live large. I can think of 3: two who are very high up in their firms and one who has a trust fund (the one with a trust fund doesn’t live conspicuously, but she does all the wealthy things, rather than having to pick and choose like most big law attorneys do).

Really. 20 year partners mostly have $2 million plus homes, beach house, possibly another house 1-3 country clubs. Nice expensive cars -- Mercedes, BMW, mostly fly themselves and family first class. Europe and Caribbean every year. If they ski -- then that.

? I've never known a DC-based partner who lives like this and both me and my husband have been in biglaw 10 years

Same! I know of a partner who has a country house, but she doesn't have nice cars or fly first class. I know of a partner who skiis and has a 2M dollar house, but she doesn't have another house and she also doens't fly first class. Etc. etc.

and I want to point out that OP just said "big law." She didn't say "attorneys in big law who have been partners for 20 years." As ubiquitous as attorneys are in DC, there actually aren't a whole lot of attorneys in big law who have been partners for 20 years. The vast majority of big law attorneys cannot afford a 2M dollar house.

[Anonymous]

You’d probably be shocked by how many showy people give showy gifts because the showy stores they shop at require an unofficial yearly spend to gain access to limited quantity items and they’ve run out of expensive tchotchkes they want for themselves. And that’s how your kindergartener gets a $400 pair of mittens for Christmas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So many of my partners at big law are wealthy generationally. Some are Jews. Are they allowed to be “old money”? Some are wasps. Some give very generous gifts. Should you start a seminar of subtle hints to rehabilitate them?

of course Jews can be old money. Ever heard of the Rothschilds? It is true that Jews historically haven’t been old money. That’s because Jews have tended to invest in human capital as opposed to the more “genteel” investments in vineyards and tracks of land. This is because over the centuries Jews have learned that if the government turns antisemitic it’s much easier to take a medical degree with you than a vineyard. Therefore, since Biblical times, Jews have been in a constant state of being nouveau riche.

[Anonymous]

I was about a year in at BigLaw and went through every bio of every partner. I quickly realized that, with the exception of a few who has done remarkable things in public service, all of them had terrible professional and personal lives that I did not envy at all. If I got to age 60 having lived there lives I would have considered myself a complete failure. So I quit.

What I ended up doing wasn't necessarily so wonderful, but it wasn't the relentless, high-pressure tedium of BigLaw.

Pity those people. Don't hate them.