Yorktown VS Washington liberty non-IB

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The academics are the same. The kids are different.

The kids aren’t even that different.

Yorktown is generally more rigorous. It’s racial demographics most closely match those of Arlington County overall. That said, WL is more racially diverse because it draws more students from less super-high income areas. Wakefield is probably the least diverse school in the county.

More Affluenza at Yorktown.

All schools are above average in terms of resources and curriculum. None of them are super feeders to ivies or anything like that but there are always a few acceptances, more recently from W-L.

Yorktown parents always like to tout this as if it's meaningful. Yorktown skews more white than the STUDENT population overall, which is the relevant metric.

Yorktown 65% White, 16% Hispanic, 11% low-income
W-L 44% white, 32% Hispanic, 23% low-income
Wakefield 26% white, 43% Hispanic, 19% Black, 32% low-income

Agree definitely more affluenza at Yorktown and it has a reputation of having more drug use (of course I know that goes on at all HSs)

I have no direct experience with Yorktown but went to a pretty universally high income HS myself and avoided Yorktown when we were house hunting for that reason. It contributed to a pretty toxic social culture. I like the greater SES diversity at W-L and my kids have friends across the spectrum.

Arlington doesn’t have a middle class, so it’s hardly a spectrum. It’s a tale of two cities.

Is it the same person who keeps posting this? It’s totally hilarious.

Yeah, its not like the county instituted housing study to address the missing middle.


https://www.arlingtonva.us/Government/Programs/Housing/Housing-Arlington/Tools/Missing-Middle
https://dcist.com/story/21/11/18/arlington-virginia-missing-middle-housing/
https://www.arlingtonmagazine.com/caught-in-the-middle/

What exactly is the plan here? Teachers and firefighters and nurses want to live in SFH too, so building a lot of townhouses and condos priced for middle income will lay fallow or end up as group homes.

There are plenty of families who would prefer a SFH but end up in a townhouse or condo because that's what they can afford. They do not all sit empty or turn into group homes, come on, that is silly.

Really, rather than driving 5 miles to Fairfax and getting a SFH? Are that many middle class families commuting to DC? Townhouses are still $800k+

Uh, YES! Absolutely there are middle class families in Arlington who still commute to DC and don't want to move out to Fairfax! Where do you live that you don't know this? There are townhouses in S. Arlington you can still find in the 500s and 600s. Condo as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The academics are the same. The kids are different.

The kids aren’t even that different.

Yorktown is generally more rigorous. It’s racial demographics most closely match those of Arlington County overall. That said, WL is more racially diverse because it draws more students from less super-high income areas. Wakefield is probably the least diverse school in the county.

More Affluenza at Yorktown.

All schools are above average in terms of resources and curriculum. None of them are super feeders to ivies or anything like that but there are always a few acceptances, more recently from W-L.

Yorktown parents always like to tout this as if it's meaningful. Yorktown skews more white than the STUDENT population overall, which is the relevant metric.

Yorktown 65% White, 16% Hispanic, 11% low-income
W-L 44% white, 32% Hispanic, 23% low-income
Wakefield 26% white, 43% Hispanic, 19% Black, 32% low-income

Agree definitely more affluenza at Yorktown and it has a reputation of having more drug use (of course I know that goes on at all HSs)

I have no direct experience with Yorktown but went to a pretty universally high income HS myself and avoided Yorktown when we were house hunting for that reason. It contributed to a pretty toxic social culture. I like the greater SES diversity at W-L and my kids have friends across the spectrum.

Arlington doesn’t have a middle class, so it’s hardly a spectrum. It’s a tale of two cities.

Is it the same person who keeps posting this? It’s totally hilarious.

Yeah, its not like the county instituted housing study to address the missing middle.


https://www.arlingtonva.us/Government/Programs/Housing/Housing-Arlington/Tools/Missing-Middle
https://dcist.com/story/21/11/18/arlington-virginia-missing-middle-housing/
https://www.arlingtonmagazine.com/caught-in-the-middle/

What exactly is the plan here? Teachers and firefighters and nurses want to live in SFH too, so building a lot of townhouses and condos priced for middle income will lay fallow or end up as group homes.

There are plenty of families who would prefer a SFH but end up in a townhouse or condo because that's what they can afford. They do not all sit empty or turn into group homes, come on, that is silly.

Really, rather than driving 5 miles to Fairfax and getting a SFH? Are that many middle class families commuting to DC? Townhouses are still $800k+

Uh, YES! Absolutely there are middle class families in Arlington who still commute to DC and don't want to move out to Fairfax! Where do you live that you don't know this? There are townhouses in S. Arlington you can still find in the 500s and 600s. Condo as well.

So you all have high school students?

And this thread was about two schools in N Arlington, sorry I am not up to date on S Arlington real estate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The academics are the same. The kids are different.

The kids aren’t even that different.

Yorktown is generally more rigorous. It’s racial demographics most closely match those of Arlington County overall. That said, WL is more racially diverse because it draws more students from less super-high income areas. Wakefield is probably the least diverse school in the county.

More Affluenza at Yorktown.

All schools are above average in terms of resources and curriculum. None of them are super feeders to ivies or anything like that but there are always a few acceptances, more recently from W-L.

Yorktown parents always like to tout this as if it's meaningful. Yorktown skews more white than the STUDENT population overall, which is the relevant metric.

Yorktown 65% White, 16% Hispanic, 11% low-income
W-L 44% white, 32% Hispanic, 23% low-income
Wakefield 26% white, 43% Hispanic, 19% Black, 32% low-income

Agree definitely more affluenza at Yorktown and it has a reputation of having more drug use (of course I know that goes on at all HSs)

I have no direct experience with Yorktown but went to a pretty universally high income HS myself and avoided Yorktown when we were house hunting for that reason. It contributed to a pretty toxic social culture. I like the greater SES diversity at W-L and my kids have friends across the spectrum.

Arlington doesn’t have a middle class, so it’s hardly a spectrum. It’s a tale of two cities.

Is it the same person who keeps posting this? It’s totally hilarious.

Yeah, its not like the county instituted housing study to address the missing middle.


https://www.arlingtonva.us/Government/Programs/Housing/Housing-Arlington/Tools/Missing-Middle
https://dcist.com/story/21/11/18/arlington-virginia-missing-middle-housing/
https://www.arlingtonmagazine.com/caught-in-the-middle/

What exactly is the plan here? Teachers and firefighters and nurses want to live in SFH too, so building a lot of townhouses and condos priced for middle income will lay fallow or end up as group homes.

There are plenty of families who would prefer a SFH but end up in a townhouse or condo because that's what they can afford. They do not all sit empty or turn into group homes, come on, that is silly.

Really, rather than driving 5 miles to Fairfax and getting a SFH? Are that many middle class families commuting to DC? Townhouses are still $800k+

Uh, YES! Absolutely there are middle class families in Arlington who still commute to DC and don't want to move out to Fairfax! Where do you live that you don't know this? There are townhouses in S. Arlington you can still find in the 500s and 600s. Condo as well.

So you all have high school students?

And this thread was about two schools in N Arlington, sorry I am not up to date on S Arlington real estate.

Yes, I am in S. Arlington and zoned for W-L! Wow, you are really in your northern bubble.

[Anonymous]

People who don't live in Arlington like to trash it by acting like it's one giant McLean. It's not. But whatever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The academics are the same. The kids are different.

The kids aren’t even that different.

Yorktown is generally more rigorous. It’s racial demographics most closely match those of Arlington County overall. That said, WL is more racially diverse because it draws more students from less super-high income areas. Wakefield is probably the least diverse school in the county.

More Affluenza at Yorktown.

All schools are above average in terms of resources and curriculum. None of them are super feeders to ivies or anything like that but there are always a few acceptances, more recently from W-L.

Yorktown parents always like to tout this as if it's meaningful. Yorktown skews more white than the STUDENT population overall, which is the relevant metric.

Yorktown 65% White, 16% Hispanic, 11% low-income
W-L 44% white, 32% Hispanic, 23% low-income
Wakefield 26% white, 43% Hispanic, 19% Black, 32% low-income

Agree definitely more affluenza at Yorktown and it has a reputation of having more drug use (of course I know that goes on at all HSs)

I have no direct experience with Yorktown but went to a pretty universally high income HS myself and avoided Yorktown when we were house hunting for that reason. It contributed to a pretty toxic social culture. I like the greater SES diversity at W-L and my kids have friends across the spectrum.

Arlington doesn’t have a middle class, so it’s hardly a spectrum. It’s a tale of two cities.

Is it the same person who keeps posting this? It’s totally hilarious.

Yeah, its not like the county instituted housing study to address the missing middle.


https://www.arlingtonva.us/Government/Programs/Housing/Housing-Arlington/Tools/Missing-Middle
https://dcist.com/story/21/11/18/arlington-virginia-missing-middle-housing/
https://www.arlingtonmagazine.com/caught-in-the-middle/

What exactly is the plan here? Teachers and firefighters and nurses want to live in SFH too, so building a lot of townhouses and condos priced for middle income will lay fallow or end up as group homes.

There are plenty of families who would prefer a SFH but end up in a townhouse or condo because that's what they can afford. They do not all sit empty or turn into group homes, come on, that is silly.

Really, rather than driving 5 miles to Fairfax and getting a SFH? Are that many middle class families commuting to DC? Townhouses are still $800k+

Uh, YES! Absolutely there are middle class families in Arlington who still commute to DC and don't want to move out to Fairfax! Where do you live that you don't know this? There are townhouses in S. Arlington you can still find in the 500s and 600s. Condo as well.

So you all have high school students?

And this thread was about two schools in N Arlington, sorry I am not up to date on S Arlington real estate.

Yes, I am in S. Arlington and zoned for W-L! Wow, you are really in your northern bubble.

So your child attends WL? It’s a reasonable mistake, only 5% of WLboundary is in South Arlington

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Map_High_School_2022_23-1.pdf

But most families with high schoolers prefer a SFH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are a few years out, so our experience may be dated, but WL started the IB program because the school was viewed as less desirable than Yorktown and it was hoped that the program would shore it up. That appears to have worked, but I'd be surprised if we've now reached the point where WL is actually a better school than Yorktown academically. Test scores certainly don't bear that out -- in a typical year, Yorktown's are marginally higher across the bored.

We had high achieving kids attend Yorktown, and they had no interest in the IB program. Lots of high achieving kids don't. The idea that an academically oriented kid would be "bullied" at Yorktown for that reason sounds preposterous to me, unless the school climate has undergone a truly dramatic transformation over the last few years.

However, if you look at UMC kids from both schools, I believe their scores would be very similar. The difference in scores has to do with the economic diversity at WL.

Maybe. My point is simply that WL hasn't become a "better school" academically than Yorktown overall.

APS doesn't break down SAT scores by economic class -- they do it solely by race and gender. Using white as a proxy for UMC, which I hesitate to do, yes, the average white student at WL has had a slightly higher SAT score than at Yorktown over the last four years (1295 to 1270). But Yorktown tests on average 40 more white students a year than WL, which skews the numbers lower. And Yorktown's minorities -- Asian, Latino, and AA -- all test higher than WL's on average. So, in the end, the overall average score for Yorktown ends up being "marginally higher" -- 1238 versus 1217.

Bottom line: nothing suggests that WL has become "better" academically than Yorktown.

They are both good schools with plenty to challenge an academically inclined student. I looked at the SOL scores for not-economically-disadvantaged students and the scores are generally not that different. However W-L tends to be a few points higher in % pass advanced while Yorktown tend to be a few points higher in total % pass.

SOLs are bs and students don't take them seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

They are both good schools with plenty to challenge an academically inclined student. I looked at the SOL scores for not-economically-disadvantaged students and the scores are generally not that different. However W-L tends to be a few points higher in % pass advanced while Yorktown tend to be a few points higher in total % pass.

SOLs are bs and students don't take them seriously.

Well, it seems like W-L students take them more seriously than Yorktown, which might be a data point in itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The academics are the same. The kids are different.

The kids aren’t even that different.

Yorktown is generally more rigorous. It’s racial demographics most closely match those of Arlington County overall. That said, WL is more racially diverse because it draws more students from less super-high income areas. Wakefield is probably the least diverse school in the county.

More Affluenza at Yorktown.

All schools are above average in terms of resources and curriculum. None of them are super feeders to ivies or anything like that but there are always a few acceptances, more recently from W-L.

Yorktown parents always like to tout this as if it's meaningful. Yorktown skews more white than the STUDENT population overall, which is the relevant metric.

Yorktown 65% White, 16% Hispanic, 11% low-income
W-L 44% white, 32% Hispanic, 23% low-income
Wakefield 26% white, 43% Hispanic, 19% Black, 32% low-income

Agree definitely more affluenza at Yorktown and it has a reputation of having more drug use (of course I know that goes on at all HSs)

I have no direct experience with Yorktown but went to a pretty universally high income HS myself and avoided Yorktown when we were house hunting for that reason. It contributed to a pretty toxic social culture. I like the greater SES diversity at W-L and my kids have friends across the spectrum.

Arlington doesn’t have a middle class, so it’s hardly a spectrum. It’s a tale of two cities.

Is it the same person who keeps posting this? It’s totally hilarious.

Yeah, its not like the county instituted housing study to address the missing middle.


https://www.arlingtonva.us/Government/Programs/Housing/Housing-Arlington/Tools/Missing-Middle
https://dcist.com/story/21/11/18/arlington-virginia-missing-middle-housing/
https://www.arlingtonmagazine.com/caught-in-the-middle/

What exactly is the plan here? Teachers and firefighters and nurses want to live in SFH too, so building a lot of townhouses and condos priced for middle income will lay fallow or end up as group homes.

There are plenty of families who would prefer a SFH but end up in a townhouse or condo because that's what they can afford. They do not all sit empty or turn into group homes, come on, that is silly.

Really, rather than driving 5 miles to Fairfax and getting a SFH? Are that many middle class families commuting to DC? Townhouses are still $800k+

Uh, YES! Absolutely there are middle class families in Arlington who still commute to DC and don't want to move out to Fairfax! Where do you live that you don't know this? There are townhouses in S. Arlington you can still find in the 500s and 600s. Condo as well.

So you all have high school students?

And this thread was about two schools in N Arlington, sorry I am not up to date on S Arlington real estate.

Yes, I am in S. Arlington and zoned for W-L! Wow, you are really in your northern bubble.

So your child attends WL? It’s a reasonable mistake, only 5% of WLboundary is in South Arlington

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Map_High_School_2022_23-1.pdf

But most families with high schoolers prefer a SFH.

I'm objecting to this idea that there's no middle class and no need for middle class housing such as townhomes and condos. Yes of course everyone wants a SFH, but plenty of regular middle class families with high schoolers in my area live in townhouses and condos, and even (gasp!) rented apartments.

[Anonymous]

A close family member is an APS teacher with about 10 years experience and is married to someone making more than they are. If I had to guess, I'd say combined they make around 160 or 170k. They are very, very good with money, have no debt, are scrupulous savers, and owned a condo for several years that had acquired a decent amount of equity. Still, when they decided to trade up to a single family home they quickly discovered that they were priced out. Sure, there are homes available in less desirable neighborhoods in the county for, say, less than 650 or 700k, but they're depressing and need work, the neighborhoods are, for want of a better word, lower class looking. You really don't have to go to far into Fairfax County to find much better deals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

They are both good schools with plenty to challenge an academically inclined student. I looked at the SOL scores for not-economically-disadvantaged students and the scores are generally not that different. However W-L tends to be a few points higher in % pass advanced while Yorktown tend to be a few points higher in total % pass.

SOLs are bs and students don't take them seriously.

Well, it seems like W-L students take them more seriously than Yorktown, which might be a data point in itself.

Probably the IB weirdos.

[Anonymous]

Here is another data point for you, which might or might not be relevant.

average %of seniors accepted into Harvard, Princeton, and MIT from 2015-2020

name city state public %asian acceptances seniors %accepted 0 THOMAS JEFFERSON HIGH SCHOOL ALEXANDRIA VA True 59.560440 136 423.0 6.43 1 CHARLOTTESVILLE HIGH SCHOOL CHARLOTTESVILLE VA True 7.294317 13 284.0 0.92 2 JAMESTOWN HIGH SCHOOL WILLIAMSBURG VA True 2.589490 7 299.0 0.47 3 BLACKSBURG HIGH SCHOOL BLACKSBURG VA True 6.445993 6 262.0 0.46 4 MCLEAN HIGH SCHOOL MCLEAN VA True 20.608108 11 486.0 0.45 5 MADISON HIGH SCHOOL VIENNA VA True 12.295082 9 478.0 0.38 6 LANGLEY HIGH SCHOOL MCLEAN VA True 21.272366 9 509.0 0.35 7 RADFORD HIGH SCHOOL RADFORD VA True 1.632653 2 123.0 0.33 8 WEST SPRINGFIELD HIGH SCHOOL SPRINGFIELD VA True 15.140845 9 620.0 0.29 9 WASHINGTON LEE HIGH SCHOOL ARLINGTON VA True 10.022173 7 496.0 0.28 10 PRINCESS ANNE HIGH SCHOOL VIRGINIA BEACH VA True 8.066298 6 443.0 0.27 11 MONTICELLO HIGH SCHOOL CHARLOTTESVILLE VA True 2.543143 3 237.0 0.25 12 CHRISTIANSBURG HIGH SCHOOL CHRISTIANSBURG VA True 1.009174 3 247.0 0.24 13 GEORGE MASON HIGH SCHOOL FALLS CHURCH VA True 9.283820 2 173.0 0.23 14 OAKTON HIGH SCHOOL VIENNA VA True 24.013871 6 552.0 0.22 15 LOUDOUN COUNTY HIGH SCHOOL LEESBURG VA True 6.822742 4 368.0 0.22 16 ALBEMARLE HIGH SCHOOL CHARLOTTESVILLE VA True 7.142857 5 479.0 0.21 17 TABB HIGH SCHOOL YORKTOWN VA True 7.002562 3 281.0 0.21 18 WOODROW WILSON HIGH SCHOOL PORTSMOUTH VA True 0.733676 3 295.0 0.20 19 LAKE BRADDOCK SECONDARY BURKE VA True 19.576980 6 625.0 0.19 20 HAMPTON HIGH SCHOOL HAMPTON VA True 3.688799 3 324.0 0.19 21 WASHINGTON & LEE HIGH SCHOOL MONTROSS VA True 0.785855 1 114.0 0.18 22 ESSEX HIGH SCHOOL TAPPAHANNOCK VA True 1.050420 1 121.0 0.17 23 WESTERN ALBEMARLE HIGH SCHOOL CROZET VA True 2.879079 2 248.0 0.16 24 STONE BRIDGE HIGH SCHOOL ASHBURN VA True 12.432432 3 409.0 0.15 25 JOHN HANDLEY HIGH SCHOOL WINCHESTER VA True 2.327515 2 273.0 0.15 26 OCEAN LAKES HIGH SCHOOL VIRGINIA BEACH VA True 6.420765 4 567.0 0.14 27 GRAFTON HIGH SCHOOL YORKTOWN VA True 7.660283 2 283.0 0.14 28 KETTLE RUN HIGH SCHOOL NOKESVILLE VA True 1.451613 2 290.0 0.14 29 NOTTOWAY HIGH SCHOOL CREWE VA True 0.465116 1 147.0 0.14 30 STRASBURG HIGH SCHOOL STRASBURG VA True 0.471698 1 141.0 0.14 31 OSBOURN PARK HIGH SCHOOL MANASSAS VA True 10.165138 4 625.0 0.13 32 BROAD RUN HIGH SCHOOL ASHBURN VA True 17.814855 3 476.0 0.13 33 EDISON HIGH SCHOOL ALEXANDRIA VA True 13.408974 3 447.0 0.13 34 TUSCARORA HIGH SCHOOL LEESBURG VA True 9.469892 3 446.0 0.13 35 E.C. GLASS HIGH SCHOOL LYNCHBURG VA True 1.416431 2 318.0 0.13 36 RICHLANDS HIGH SCHOOL RICHLANDS VA True 0.890208 1 151.0 0.13 37 SOUTH COUNTY HIGH SCHOOL LORTON VA True 18.249534 3 516.0 0.12 38 HENRICO HIGH SCHOOL RICHMOND VA True 8.802817 2 327.0 0.12 39 WARWICK HIGH SCHOOL NEWPORT NEWS VA True 4.452297 2 340.0 0.12 40 TC WILLIAMS HIGH SCHOOL ALEXANDRIA VA True 5.252641 4 747.0 0.11 41 C.D. HYLTON HIGH SCHOOL WOODBRIDGE VA True 6.255077 3 565.0 0.11 42 YORKTOWN HIGH SCHOOL ARLINGTON VA True 7.759959 3 531.0 0.11

[Anonymous]

Not sure if this has already been mentioned but something to consider - I heard certain colleges will expect you to have taken the highest level classes offered at your school. So if your child wants to do AP, but not IB, Yorktown might be the better option, if that is something that's going to be important down the line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not sure if this has already been mentioned but something to consider - I heard certain colleges will expect you to have taken the highest level classes offered at your school. So if your child wants to do AP, but not IB, Yorktown might be the better option, if that is something that's going to be important down the line.

Is IB considered higher level than AP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure if this has already been mentioned but something to consider - I heard certain colleges will expect you to have taken the highest level classes offered at your school. So if your child wants to do AP, but not IB, Yorktown might be the better option, if that is something that's going to be important down the line.

Is IB considered higher level than AP?

By colleges, yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure if this has already been mentioned but something to consider - I heard certain colleges will expect you to have taken the highest level classes offered at your school. So if your child wants to do AP, but not IB, Yorktown might be the better option, if that is something that's going to be important down the line.

Is IB considered higher level than AP?

By colleges, yes.

I guess we can get into a philosophical debate about which is “higher level” but I have also heard that about colleges. I’ve also heard iit depends on the college.