Yorktown VS Washington liberty non-IB

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't know much about Yorktown but have friends with kids there and have heard no complaints. It is true, however, that the really high achieving kids are skimmed off to go to the W-L IB program so that might be an issue for a more academic/nerdy kid.

No. This is not true. High achieving kids in in the YHS pyramid do go to YHS. That's nonsense.

There is a lot of weird info. Your kid is not more likely to get bullied at one school vs. the other. The kids who are bullies YHS also exist at WL. Would your kid like IB? Would they like a bigger school? If so, pick WL. If not, go YHS.

Well there seem to be more Ivy league and elite college acceptances from WL than YHS.

https://www.arlingtonmagazine.com/where-arlingtons-class-of-2020-applied-to-college-and-got-in/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids go to W-L (it's our zoned school). They have done a mix of AP and IB classes and had no interest in doing the full IB program. They have been plenty challenged academically, have good friends and I've been happy with support from the counselors and teachers when DD was going through a difficult patch. One potential downside of not doing full IB is that it does put you at a disadvantage in applying to some colleges in that you will not be seen as having taken the most rigorous program. That's particularly important for UVA, if that matters to you. Neither of my kids cared about that. One is now at VT and feels very well prepared. The other is aiming for LACs.

One of mine has been happy participating in band and does a couple clubs. For the other, while he had a good group of friends, had difficulty finding a spot that felt right in ECs. One downside of the big school is that there are so many kids in any activity. He tried the service club but felt like it didn't matter that he was there, they had so many kids for any event. He enjoyed doing stage crew but again so many kids wanted to work the shows that he only could work one performance. He ended up spending his time more in out-of-school activities where he felt more needed. I think it is probably easier to find your place if involved in a group like band/chorus or a sport.

The school is going to get bigger but, no, they aren't adding cafeteria or outside space.

I don't know much about Yorktown but have friends with kids there and have heard no complaints. It is true, however, that the really high achieving kids are skimmed off to go to the W-L IB program so that might be an issue for a more academic/nerdy kid.

OP here, I heard this about WL, that it will be harder to get into some sports or ECs (and DS isn't an athlete but does like to play sports, but clearly he won't make the cut if there is one), so they will instead expand the offerings? But if the clubs are already so large, why has that not already happened? There are limits to sports because of field/gym space I guess and they aren't building more, but couldn't they have like clubs in classrooms?

Also, with the extra 600 kids, are they hiring more guidance counselors, maybe another assistant principal, etc? Or will WL just operate with a higher ratio of student:admin staff, which can gum up the works in things like counseling and discipline pipeline?

I would expect them to stick to the staffing ratios standards so, yes, there will be more counselors, teachers, etc.

There are plenty of clubs and kids can start their own (my DD participates in two that were started by friends) but, yes, the popular ones are too big to be meaningful.

But no additional assistant principals? They deal with discipline to a large degree, and having another 25% students, they will need more support.

[Anonymous]

My kid's group was split between the two schools. Academics seem comparable. WL has a little more school spirit. It also has trailers, something YHS doesn't. Drugs aren't more prominent at either one. It depends upon the circles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid's group was split between the two schools. Academics seem comparable. WL has a little more school spirit. It also has trailers, something YHS doesn't. Drugs aren't more prominent at either one. It depends upon the circles.

Trailers will go away once they open addition next year, which will free up some of the campus space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't know much about Yorktown but have friends with kids there and have heard no complaints. It is true, however, that the really high achieving kids are skimmed off to go to the W-L IB program so that might be an issue for a more academic/nerdy kid.

No. This is not true. High achieving kids in in the YHS pyramid do go to YHS. That's nonsense.

There is a lot of weird info. Your kid is not more likely to get bullied at one school vs. the other. The kids who are bullies YHS also exist at WL. Would your kid like IB? Would they like a bigger school? If so, pick WL. If not, go YHS.

Well there seem to be more Ivy league and elite college acceptances from WL than YHS.

https://www.arlingtonmagazine.com/where-arlingtons-class-of-2020-applied-to-college-and-got-in/

I would hope so. They have more kids. The outlier is HB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't know much about Yorktown but have friends with kids there and have heard no complaints. It is true, however, that the really high achieving kids are skimmed off to go to the W-L IB program so that might be an issue for a more academic/nerdy kid.

No. This is not true. High achieving kids in in the YHS pyramid do go to YHS. That's nonsense.

There is a lot of weird info. Your kid is not more likely to get bullied at one school vs. the other. The kids who are bullies YHS also exist at WL. Would your kid like IB? Would they like a bigger school? If so, pick WL. If not, go YHS.

Well there seem to be more Ivy league and elite college acceptances from WL than YHS.

https://www.arlingtonmagazine.com/where-arlingtons-class-of-2020-applied-to-college-and-got-in/

I would hope so. They have more kids. The outlier is HB.

Well, yeah if we could get in HB, that would be great. But it’s a “lottery”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids go to W-L (it's our zoned school). They have done a mix of AP and IB classes and had no interest in doing the full IB program. They have been plenty challenged academically, have good friends and I've been happy with support from the counselors and teachers when DD was going through a difficult patch. One potential downside of not doing full IB is that it does put you at a disadvantage in applying to some colleges in that you will not be seen as having taken the most rigorous program. That's particularly important for UVA, if that matters to you. Neither of my kids cared about that. One is now at VT and feels very well prepared. The other is aiming for LACs.

One of mine has been happy participating in band and does a couple clubs. For the other, while he had a good group of friends, had difficulty finding a spot that felt right in ECs. One downside of the big school is that there are so many kids in any activity. He tried the service club but felt like it didn't matter that he was there, they had so many kids for any event. He enjoyed doing stage crew but again so many kids wanted to work the shows that he only could work one performance. He ended up spending his time more in out-of-school activities where he felt more needed. I think it is probably easier to find your place if involved in a group like band/chorus or a sport.

The school is going to get bigger but, no, they aren't adding cafeteria or outside space.

I don't know much about Yorktown but have friends with kids there and have heard no complaints. It is true, however, that the really high achieving kids are skimmed off to go to the W-L IB program so that might be an issue for a more academic/nerdy kid.

This is the sort of crap answers you get on DCUM, especially about a school from a parent whose kids don't actually go there. If they're "really high achieving," they're probably applying to TJ Sci and Tech.
Kids transfer into IB at WL for 2 reasons. Either they want IB, or they are following friends from middle school. And there are plenty of "really high achieving" students left behind at YHS -- and Wakefield, BTW, which also produces students accepted to Ivy League and other top schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The academics are the same. The kids are different.

The kids aren’t even that different.

Yorktown is generally more rigorous. It’s racial demographics most closely match those of Arlington County overall. That said, WL is more racially diverse because it draws more students from less super-high income areas. Wakefield is probably the least diverse school in the county.

More Affluenza at Yorktown.

All schools are above average in terms of resources and curriculum. None of them are super feeders to ivies or anything like that but there are always a few acceptances, more recently from W-L.

Yorktown parents always like to tout this as if it's meaningful. Yorktown skews more white than the STUDENT population overall, which is the relevant metric.

Yorktown 65% White, 16% Hispanic, 11% low-income
W-L 44% white, 32% Hispanic, 23% low-income
Wakefield 26% white, 43% Hispanic, 19% Black, 32% low-income

Agree definitely more affluenza at Yorktown and it has a reputation of having more drug use (of course I know that goes on at all HSs)

I have no direct experience with Yorktown but went to a pretty universally high income HS myself and avoided Yorktown when we were house hunting for that reason. It contributed to a pretty toxic social culture. I like the greater SES diversity at W-L and my kids have friends across the spectrum.

Arlington doesn’t have a middle class, so it’s hardly a spectrum. It’s a tale of two cities.

Is it the same person who keeps posting this? It’s totally hilarious.

Yeah, its not like the county instituted housing study to address the missing middle.


https://www.arlingtonva.us/Government/Programs/Housing/Housing-Arlington/Tools/Missing-Middle
https://dcist.com/story/21/11/18/arlington-virginia-missing-middle-housing/
https://www.arlingtonmagazine.com/caught-in-the-middle/

What exactly is the plan here? Teachers and firefighters and nurses want to live in SFH too, so building a lot of townhouses and condos priced for middle income will lay fallow or end up as group homes.

There are plenty of families who would prefer a SFH but end up in a townhouse or condo because that's what they can afford. They do not all sit empty or turn into group homes, come on, that is silly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The academics are the same. The kids are different.

The kids aren’t even that different.

Yorktown is generally more rigorous. It’s racial demographics most closely match those of Arlington County overall. That said, WL is more racially diverse because it draws more students from less super-high income areas. Wakefield is probably the least diverse school in the county.

More Affluenza at Yorktown.

All schools are above average in terms of resources and curriculum. None of them are super feeders to ivies or anything like that but there are always a few acceptances, more recently from W-L.

Yorktown parents always like to tout this as if it's meaningful. Yorktown skews more white than the STUDENT population overall, which is the relevant metric.

Yorktown 65% White, 16% Hispanic, 11% low-income
W-L 44% white, 32% Hispanic, 23% low-income
Wakefield 26% white, 43% Hispanic, 19% Black, 32% low-income

Agree definitely more affluenza at Yorktown and it has a reputation of having more drug use (of course I know that goes on at all HSs)

I have no direct experience with Yorktown but went to a pretty universally high income HS myself and avoided Yorktown when we were house hunting for that reason. It contributed to a pretty toxic social culture. I like the greater SES diversity at W-L and my kids have friends across the spectrum.

Arlington doesn’t have a middle class, so it’s hardly a spectrum. It’s a tale of two cities.

Is it the same person who keeps posting this? It’s totally hilarious.

Yeah, its not like the county instituted housing study to address the missing middle.


https://www.arlingtonva.us/Government/Programs/Housing/Housing-Arlington/Tools/Missing-Middle
https://dcist.com/story/21/11/18/arlington-virginia-missing-middle-housing/
https://www.arlingtonmagazine.com/caught-in-the-middle/

What exactly is the plan here? Teachers and firefighters and nurses want to live in SFH too, so building a lot of townhouses and condos priced for middle income will lay fallow or end up as group homes.

There are plenty of families who would prefer a SFH but end up in a townhouse or condo because that's what they can afford. They do not all sit empty or turn into group homes, come on, that is silly.

Really, rather than driving 5 miles to Fairfax and getting a SFH? Are that many middle class families commuting to DC? Townhouses are still $800k+

[Anonymous]

We are a few years out, so our experience may be dated, but WL started the IB program because the school was viewed as less desirable than Yorktown and it was hoped that the program would shore it up. That appears to have worked, but I'd be surprised if we've now reached the point where WL is actually a better school than Yorktown academically. Test scores certainly don't bear that out -- in a typical year, Yorktown's are marginally higher across the bored.

We had high achieving kids attend Yorktown, and they had no interest in the IB program. Lots of high achieving kids don't. The idea that an academically oriented kid would be "bullied" at Yorktown for that reason sounds preposterous to me, unless the school climate has undergone a truly dramatic transformation over the last few years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are a few years out, so our experience may be dated, but WL started the IB program because the school was viewed as less desirable than Yorktown and it was hoped that the program would shore it up. That appears to have worked, but I'd be surprised if we've now reached the point where WL is actually a better school than Yorktown academically. Test scores certainly don't bear that out -- in a typical year, Yorktown's are marginally higher across the bored.

We had high achieving kids attend Yorktown, and they had no interest in the IB program. Lots of high achieving kids don't. The idea that an academically oriented kid would be "bullied" at Yorktown for that reason sounds preposterous to me, unless the school climate has undergone a truly dramatic transformation over the last few years.

However, if you look at UMC kids from both schools, I believe their scores would be very similar. The difference in scores has to do with the economic diversity at WL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are a few years out, so our experience may be dated, but WL started the IB program because the school was viewed as less desirable than Yorktown and it was hoped that the program would shore it up. That appears to have worked, but I'd be surprised if we've now reached the point where WL is actually a better school than Yorktown academically. Test scores certainly don't bear that out -- in a typical year, Yorktown's are marginally higher across the bored.

We had high achieving kids attend Yorktown, and they had no interest in the IB program. Lots of high achieving kids don't. The idea that an academically oriented kid would be "bullied" at Yorktown for that reason sounds preposterous to me, unless the school climate has undergone a truly dramatic transformation over the last few years.

However, if you look at UMC kids from both schools, I believe their scores would be very similar. The difference in scores has to do with the economic diversity at WL.

Maybe. My point is simply that WL hasn't become a "better school" academically than Yorktown overall.

APS doesn't break down SAT scores by economic class -- they do it solely by race and gender. Using white as a proxy for UMC, which I hesitate to do, yes, the average white student at WL has had a slightly higher SAT score than at Yorktown over the last four years (1295 to 1270). But Yorktown tests on average 40 more white students a year than WL, which skews the numbers lower. And Yorktown's minorities -- Asian, Latino, and AA -- all test higher than WL's on average. So, in the end, the overall average score for Yorktown ends up being "marginally higher" -- 1238 versus 1217.

Bottom line: nothing suggests that WL has become "better" academically than Yorktown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Arlington.

There are a lot of families who have lived here a long time and are normal 2-income families including plenty of teachers, by the way. This idea that everyone here is super rich is just not reality. Does your money buy you less here? Absolutely. And take a minute and drive around. Plenty of people live in small and old houses.

Firefighters are not really middle income in this area in any county if you look at the stats. But it would be nice if they could live in a brand new SFH in Arlington. Yes that’s true.

So teachers make around $90k in Arlington.

https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/public-school-teacher-salary/arlington-va

So a two teacher family makes $150k. And they are buying $900k SFH?

you are talking about families that bought in like 2000, most likely with parents help because what teacher is buying a $400k home at 23, and had their kid in their mid 30s or early 40s and now have a middle schooler.

There is no way a middle class family with elementary or middle school kids is buying a house in Arlington today.

No not two teacher families. Do all teachers marry other teachers?

I know multiple teachers who are married to non-teachers and live in Arlington.

I also personally know a lot of people with elementary and middle school kids who bought houses when they first got married (a long time ago) and still live in them with their kids. So purchased in early to mid 2000s often.

It also depends on your definition of middle class. Middle class in an expensive metro area looks and feels a good bit different. But calling all these families who live in Arlington "rich" is just silly. Sure, they're rich by many standards and then not really rich at all by others. It's expensive to live here but salaries also reflect that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are a few years out, so our experience may be dated, but WL started the IB program because the school was viewed as less desirable than Yorktown and it was hoped that the program would shore it up. That appears to have worked, but I'd be surprised if we've now reached the point where WL is actually a better school than Yorktown academically. Test scores certainly don't bear that out -- in a typical year, Yorktown's are marginally higher across the bored.

We had high achieving kids attend Yorktown, and they had no interest in the IB program. Lots of high achieving kids don't. The idea that an academically oriented kid would be "bullied" at Yorktown for that reason sounds preposterous to me, unless the school climate has undergone a truly dramatic transformation over the last few years.

However, if you look at UMC kids from both schools, I believe their scores would be very similar. The difference in scores has to do with the economic diversity at WL.

Maybe. My point is simply that WL hasn't become a "better school" academically than Yorktown overall.

APS doesn't break down SAT scores by economic class -- they do it solely by race and gender. Using white as a proxy for UMC, which I hesitate to do, yes, the average white student at WL has had a slightly higher SAT score than at Yorktown over the last four years (1295 to 1270). But Yorktown tests on average 40 more white students a year than WL, which skews the numbers lower. And Yorktown's minorities -- Asian, Latino, and AA -- all test higher than WL's on average. So, in the end, the overall average score for Yorktown ends up being "marginally higher" -- 1238 versus 1217.

Bottom line: nothing suggests that WL has become "better" academically than Yorktown.

They are both good schools with plenty to challenge an academically inclined student. I looked at the SOL scores for not-economically-disadvantaged students and the scores are generally not that different. However W-L tends to be a few points higher in % pass advanced while Yorktown tend to be a few points higher in total % pass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The academics are the same. The kids are different.

The kids aren’t even that different.

Yorktown is generally more rigorous. It’s racial demographics most closely match those of Arlington County overall. That said, WL is more racially diverse because it draws more students from less super-high income areas. Wakefield is probably the least diverse school in the county.

More Affluenza at Yorktown.

All schools are above average in terms of resources and curriculum. None of them are super feeders to ivies or anything like that but there are always a few acceptances, more recently from W-L.

Yorktown parents always like to tout this as if it's meaningful. Yorktown skews more white than the STUDENT population overall, which is the relevant metric.

Yorktown 65% White, 16% Hispanic, 11% low-income
W-L 44% white, 32% Hispanic, 23% low-income
Wakefield 26% white, 43% Hispanic, 19% Black, 32% low-income

Agree definitely more affluenza at Yorktown and it has a reputation of having more drug use (of course I know that goes on at all HSs)

I have no direct experience with Yorktown but went to a pretty universally high income HS myself and avoided Yorktown when we were house hunting for that reason. It contributed to a pretty toxic social culture. I like the greater SES diversity at W-L and my kids have friends across the spectrum.

It *is* meaningful, though. A school should look like its community. Citing the “student” population is meaningless because there is more high density housing and bigger families in south Arlington, but Wakefield doesn’t look like the county or even the region as a whole. And having a plurality of Hispanics is not more virtuous than having a majority of whites.