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Counseling Out
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Anonymous
| Most of the "counseled out" students that I've heard about have been boys. I always thought it was because boys supposedly mature (i.e. emotionally and socially) more slowly than girls. Does anyone have any idea whether boys tend to get counseled out more often than girls? |
Anonymous
| In terms of the OP's additional details, a couple of thoughts. First, although "more time to acclimate" to a school sounds good, sometimes it may keep a kid for a longer time in a school that is a terrible fit, with a corresponding hit to the child's happiness and self-esteem. If it really isn't working--and structurally seems like it will not work--it can be better to change things sooner. For the second family, the sense that they thought, given the high tuition, that the school "would do more to motivate" their child perhaps gives a hint as to attitudes of the parents and child. As another poster commented, schools have many interim forms of communication: grades; comments; meetings with the parents; probation, etc -- I would be very surprised if the family had not had many of these interim warning communications. They and their child may have incorrectly felt that motivation was the school's "problem" because of tuition payments. Schools need to feel if a child is academically not cutting it that improvement is possible -- perhaps here, the attitude suggested otherwise. |
Anonymous
Unfortunately, boys get discriminated against at schools--both public and private--all the time! Sometimes well meaning, curious and energetic boys are misunderstood and incorrectly labeled as "problems", because teachers are not willing to give them a little extra attention or more opportunities to move around. Personally, I think all teachers should have to take course work on the different learning styles and behaviors of boys vs. girls. It could save the self esteem A LOT of boys.
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Anonymous
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I am the 15:04 poster, the "beautiful minds" one.
In my experience, I often spotted the learning differences in students, as well as some emotional issues, and the parents were OUT TO LUNCH where their children were concerned. They were so set on their child getting a certain education in a certain school that they did not want to listen to anything. Private school teachers, in many schools, are not required to have a teaching degree. I DID, and therefore had taken enough classes to recognize SIGNS of LD's and ED's. These other teachers had Masters and PhD's in math and science, etc. but were not trained in LEARNING. And that is the school's right. I personally found it frustrating, but that is why I sometimes BEGGED parents to take their children out...I knew what was coming and it was nothing but years of failure and frustration, extra help and catch-up. Inclusiveness is a battle that must be found on the public school front, it has no toe-hold in privates. True inclusion is far more than a couple of teachers, aids, etc in the classroom. It is a whole-school philosophy that must be implemented, soup to nuts. The idea that all students can be taught in all schools (private) is naive and pie-in-the-sky. From my experience, some of the biggest problems came from parents KNOWING their child had severe ADHD and sent them to MY school, where kids sit in straight rows, where many teachers still stand in front of the chalkboard, where group learning and dynamic lessons are there, but not as much as they should be. For a severe ADHD 8th grade boy? This is like torture. But the parents did it anyway and then throw fits when the school ended up being exactly the way we presented ourselves. The school could have possibly known what they were getting unless the parents were forthcoming, which they were not. This situation repeated over and over. The person screwed? The kid. And the kids sitting around him. |
Anonymous
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Anonymous
| No -- many girls get counseled out too when they can't keep up with the schoolwork. Schools such as NCS, Holton and Visitation are really tough schools. Sometimes, legacies will get in...but they can't cut it. So, the schools may very gently suggest a less rigorous school might be more appropriate. I know a lot of kids who ended up at Bullis because they couldn't cut it elsewhere and they ended up liking it a lot. |
Anonymous
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"Beautiful Minds" poster made an excellent point in that many private school teachers are not trained educators. They have degrees in their content area and they often learn on the job. I'm also a teacher who did a program where I got dual degrees, one in secondary education and the other in my content subject.
There is a lot of talk about the low quality of teacher training and education departments, however, we were ALL required to take extensive coursework in the following subjects: exceptional children (special needs), learning styles (including the differences between girls and boys), multiple intelligence, classroom management, differentiation. This gave us the background coming in that we needed to accommodate most children. I taught in both public and private and in my experience (my experience only), publics were much better equipped to work with special needs children. I taught at the high school level and in several classes, had resource teachers in class with me, or even team-taught with a special ed teacher since we had so many mainstreamed special needs children in my class. That way, the children were learning the content through me, but getting the accommodations they needed from the resource teacher. We planned together every day so that IEP accommodations were in place for every lesson/test. |
Anonymous
PP, did NCS, Visitation and Holton help the girls get into Bullis? Or did the parents have to make their own way with the application process?
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Anonymous
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I didn't say all SN kids should be grouped with neurotypicals in every private. That would indeed be naive and just plain would not work. I think children with very severe issues that constantly disrupt the classroom need to be in separate classrooms. But there are many LD/SN children who are mildly affected, are not disruptive and can be accommodated at many privates providing their parents pay for the accommodations or therapy whether that be OT in the middle of the day, handwriting help, reading to them if they have dyslexia, extra time for tests and projects if they have ADHD,e tc...
Must privates adopt inclusion? Legally, no. Ethically, yes. And yes, the reason for this is as simple as a previous poster stated: because it's the NICE thing to do. It's the RIGHT thing to do. We want our communities to be filled with NICE people who are tolerant and receptive and compassionate for those who are different from us. I recognize that in this area everybody's in a rat race to get their kindergartener into the best school to get the best education, all in preparation for Harvard. Fine. But not having inclusion means important and meaningful lessons are lost. Just my opinion.. |
Anonymous
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Most of us seem to be talking about young (4-8 yo) boys getting asked to leave due to unmedicated ADHD or something. Which is a great discussion, don't get me wrong, but I'd like to talk more about the older teens who don't have special needs, they're just C minus students.
It is quite common in New York and at Sidwell to gently -- quietly! -- help these older kids find new schools. Like the PP who pointed out that not all girls who start at Holton at age 8 make it all they way, the same is true for Sidwell. I am a NP and I personally know 3 different families who left Sidwell at the suggestion of the school. One was a young boy of the type I think most of you are talking about, and the other two were in early high school. They were admitted way back when because they were connected, but, high school at Sidwell is a whole new ball o' wax. I think, but could never confirm, that when teens like this leave their spots are probably filled with academic superstars with perfect SAT potential. Don't you think? |
Anonymous
OP here. Just to clarify, neither of the children that I spoke of have any special needs or learning disabilities.
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Anonymous
I guess the Big 3 schools don't want to keep students at their schools who cannot are struggling with the coursework. From a practical standpoint that doesn't surprise me, because if a school is known for it's academic rigor, then they are reasonable to expect that students will perform accordingly.
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Anonymous
Everything is done really quietly...but, yes, the schools help the kids find more suitable places. Schools don't like "bad press"... and schools like Bullis welcome these kids with open arms.
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Anonymous
Any many private schools can and do accommodate kids like the ones you mention: kids who are mildly affected and not disruptive. I don't understand why anyone thinks otherwise. It seems like there's a lot of rumor and angst on this thread, but I don't think I've seen anyone say their child with a mild LD who was not disruptive was counseled out of a private school. I know kids in private school who receive accommodations for ADD. |
Anonymous
| I know there was a boy counseled out after pre-k and a much-discussed (on this board) "Big Three" school at the end of last year. I was not there last year and do not know the circumstances but I have met the child on a few occassions and he does not seem to have obvious behavioral issues. Imagine, counseling a pre-ker out! |