Counseling Out

[Anonymous]

The whole point about independent schools is that there is a range of schools, tailored to a range of learners. If a school does not choose to -- and does not -- offer itself as a good place for LD/SN kids, I don't think it's a problem. There are many schools that do specialize in such services, and their marketplace niche depends on it. This is not to say that it is not very sad when it becomes apparent that a child who started out at a school is not going to thrive there academically, perhaps because of a LD/SN issue not seen earlier. I would hope (and I assume) that schools would be as sensitive as possible under those circumstances. At the same time, it is not a good situation for a child to stay in a place where he/she knows he/she is struggling with no realistic chance of turning it around.

[Anonymous]

What does it say about our community when schools and parents too would prefer to banish different children rather than opt for inclusion? It says that we are deeply insensitive to how it makes these children feel.

Maybe. But it could also say that the school is committed to focusing on the population that it delineates, to the utmost of its ability. Maybe too many inclusions slow down the optimal classroom.

What is so wrong with sorting? What is so inherently wrong with laying out the parameters of your own club and sticking to them as you fill its membership rolls? Why does everyone need to be let in? So they don't feel sad?

It is not as if LD or SN kids have nowhere to go. I say this as the mom of a mildly LD kid. It is not as if he has to sit at home in the basement because Sidwell doesn't want him, due to his reduced processing speed. If you're so angry with the inhumanity of a private club that doesn't want your DC ... choose with your pocketbook and find a different club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"There have been quite a few posts on the special needs boards about kids getting counseled out of private schools. Despite the smaller class size and efforts on parts of parents to make it work, there are some private schools who do not want to deal with kids who have learning disabilities, not all of whom have ADHD. It's too bad."

This was my post. Some may not like it, but discrimination at private schools exists. And what makes anyone think that teachers in public schools get training in special needs more than those in private schools? The entire profession is struggling. While it is good that GDS is doing something for LD/SN kids, that is not the case in other places.

School districts are required to provide services to children in private/parochial schools, so the argument that a private school must do it won't wash. Kids in private schools get services. And in many cases, parents with kids in private and public schools pay for additional services.

Private schools can do what they want. That's the point - there are some private schools that if they don't want your child or to work with you, even if your child is qualified to be there and needs some support, then they can counsel you out. This thread is about being counseled out. Having special needs can (unfortunately) be a reason.

I'm sure that there are some schools that counsel kids out when their parents think they should stay - I would guess that sometimes the parents are right and sometimes the school is right. But please, be careful about throwing the names of specific schools around. I know, for example, that Sidwell also has learning specialists in the lower, middle, and upper schools, and offers a number of accomodations to students with testing and diagnoses which support that need. I also personally know kids with ADHD, dyslexia, dysgraphia, and SID who are doing fine at Sidwell and receive support. That's not to say that any child with any LD would do fine there, just that they don't have a blanket policy against all SN kids.

[Anonymous]

Please note that posters 9:45 and 10;28 are 2 different people. There are several people posting here.

But it would be interesting if others would say more about how getting counseled out operates at their schools if they know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry PP but I take offense to your post. Children with LD/SN are still human beings and they are still children. Ostracizing them, ousting them, separating them from typical children, or banishing them to be around those of their own kind only demoralizes them. Most privates like Sidwell, Potomac, Maret, GDS, and even FH (who claims to cater to different 'learning styles) do banish children with LD/SN. It is an affront to all children who have issues, and it is an affront to humanity. What does it say about our community when schools and parents too would prefer to banish different children rather than opt for inclusion? It says that we are deeply insensitive to how it makes these children feel. Public schools include children with SN as much as possible. Privates should learn a lesson from them on how to treat all children, even different ones, with some compassion. And so should some parents.

Like some others I disagree. If the school is not a fit for the kid the kid can become quite demoralized. My DC with some LD issues and ADHD was NOT counseled out but as it turns out suffered from significant teasing in middle school because of the accommodations she received (extra time, tutoring, etc.). She also had to work twice as hard as the other kids for less result, which was also very frustrating and demoralizing for her. The school was very accommodating, and she made it through, but perhaps being in a school where she was the norm rather than the "inclusion" would have been a better fit.

[Anonymous]

For those posters who have children with learning disabilities or other neurological issues, when were these diagnoses made? Were things brought to your attention when your child was young (ie: 4-6 years old) or were you surprised by symptoms later on?

[Anonymous]

Two sons with ADHD. One diagnosed in second grade - we were surprised but not shocked. The other one we knew something was up in nursery school, but it took a few years to pin it down - mid first grade I think. And (germaine to the topic) both were admitted in upper elementary to excellent private schools, with full disclosure up front, and both are doing very well with some accommodations.

[Anonymous]

I think there is distinct difference between private schools that help children with run of the mill learning disabilities like dyslexia or needing more time to take a test and special needs children who really need day to day support in the classroom.

As a private school parent, I am ok with the former but not the later.

[Anonymous]

9:56 said privates sometimes don't have the expertise to deal with LD/SN children. Stats4sam provides add'l support in adding that privates don't have the funding/subsidies that publics have. With tuition that exceeds $25K/yr, many privates have enormous resources and funding. But even if it were true that funding was a problem, privates are able to and sometimes do ask parents to pay for the add'l resources their LD/SN child needs at school. Many privates have psychologists and learning specialists on staff but they are highly selective in their admission of children with LD/SN, selecting children whose issues are barely discernable, and on top of this they ask that some of these children be medicated. As far as not having the expertise to deal with these children, thats what their on-staff psychologists and learning specialists are for. If they don't have them, they can hire them.
It just seems ironic for 15:04 to say these children are so smart and have such beautiful minds but they fully support their separation and banishment to other schools, presumably where their beautiful minds can be appreciated. What I'm saying is that these children should be respected, if not appreciated, at all privates. Inclusion is the right thing to do. It's the right way to treat children. And it benefits both the LD/SN child as well as neurotypical children because the LD/SN feels included and accepted while the neurotyp children learn to accept and include children who are different from them. It's the way just and fair communities should treat their children. And big businesses are still a part of this community and have an ethical responsibility to promote justice and fairness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry PP but I take offense to your post. Children with LD/SN are still human beings and they are still children. Ostracizing them, ousting them, separating them from typical children, or banishing them to be around those of their own kind only demoralizes them. Most privates like Sidwell, Potomac, Maret, GDS, and even FH (who claims to cater to different 'learning styles) do banish children with LD/SN. It is an affront to all children who have issues, and it is an affront to humanity. What does it say about our community when schools and parents too would prefer to banish different children rather than opt for inclusion? It says that we are deeply insensitive to how it makes these children feel. Public schools include children with SN as much as possible. Privates should learn a lesson from them on how to treat all children, even different ones, with some compassion. And so should some parents.

Like some others I disagree. If the school is not a fit for the kid the kid can become quite demoralized. My DC with some LD issues and ADHD was NOT counseled out but as it turns out suffered from significant teasing in middle school because of the accommodations she received (extra time, tutoring, etc.). She also had to work twice as hard as the other kids for less result, which was also very frustrating and demoralizing for her. The school was very accommodating, and she made it through, but perhaps being in a school where she was the norm rather than the "inclusion" would have been a better fit.

So who has the greater ethical duty to change here? Your daughter who has a medical disability or the school's children who emotionally tormented her because of her condition? All kids with ADHD will need to work twice as hard for the same results. In fact, children with any issue will face challenges in overcoming their issues in school. That's simply a fact of their life. The schools should customize a curriculum for these children and provide accommodations, even if it at an extra cost to the parent, and the children should receive sensitivity training at school and some moral lessons from parents at home.

[Anonymous]

Like some others I disagree. If the school is not a fit for the kid the kid can become quite demoralized. My DC with some LD issues and ADHD was NOT counseled out but as it turns out suffered from significant teasing in middle school because of the accommodations she received (extra time, tutoring, etc.). She also had to work twice as hard as the other kids for less result, which was also very frustrating and demoralizing for her. The school was very accommodating, and she made it through, but perhaps being in a school where she was the norm rather than the "inclusion" would have been a better fit.


MY SITUATION EXACTLY! school was supportive, but I almost wish I had switched my DD to another school so she did not always feel different or mediocre.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry PP but I take offense to your post. Children with LD/SN are still human beings and they are still children. Ostracizing them, ousting them, separating them from typical children, or banishing them to be around those of their own kind only demoralizes them. Most privates like Sidwell, Potomac, Maret, GDS, and even FH (who claims to cater to different 'learning styles) do banish children with LD/SN. It is an affront to all children who have issues, and it is an affront to humanity. What does it say about our community when schools and parents too would prefer to banish different children rather than opt for inclusion? It says that we are deeply insensitive to how it makes these children feel. Public schools include children with SN as much as possible. Privates should learn a lesson from them on how to treat all children, even different ones, with some compassion. And so should some parents.

Like some others I disagree. If the school is not a fit for the kid the kid can become quite demoralized. My DC with some LD issues and ADHD was NOT counseled out but as it turns out suffered from significant teasing in middle school because of the accommodations she received (extra time, tutoring, etc.). She also had to work twice as hard as the other kids for less result, which was also very frustrating and demoralizing for her. The school was very accommodating, and she made it through, but perhaps being in a school where she was the norm rather than the "inclusion" would have been a better fit.

So who has the greater ethical duty to change here? Your daughter who has a medical disability or the school's children who emotionally tormented her because of her condition? All kids with ADHD will need to work twice as hard for the same results. In fact, children with any issue will face challenges in overcoming their issues in school. That's simply a fact of their life. The schools should customize a curriculum for these children and provide accommodations, even if it at an extra cost to the parent, and the children should receive sensitivity training at school and some moral lessons from parents at home.

I still disagree. The private schools are not required to customize their curriculum or train all their teachers in dealing with LD kids. Would that be nice - sure. But most of these schools are not as resource rich as you seem to think. If they start hiring resource teachers left and right that means an increase in tuition. Many families already struggle to pay tuition.

[Anonymous]

I strongly agree with private schools and teachers not being properly trained to diagnose and deal with learning issues - especially when it involves boys and female teachers who do not understand they are wired differently.

Our own boy was tormented (and I really mean that) by his K teacher who kept insisting he had ADHD and needed evaluation and meds. It was a horrible year and we almost left the school. Then found out she was going after all the boys in the class as well. She had been at the school for over 20 years and no one even questioned her!

We did leave the school about 4 years later. Ironically because our son felt unchallenged. Turned out he was academically ahead of his classmates and is pulling straight A's at a more challenging school. So much for that teacher.

Glad we stuck to our guns and gut instincts about what was really going on. Despite the pressure many of us get, parents really do know best most of the time when it comes to their kids.

[Anonymous]

From a woman who has taught in an all boys environment, no thanks for the sweeping over-generalization that women don't "get" that boys are wired differently. Sounds like you had a bad experience with that K teacher, but don't assume that all women teachers don't "get" or can't "deal" with boys -- it's unfair, stereotypical, and just wrong.

[Anonymous]

OP here. The two cases that I heard about were high school students. One family was totally shocked, because although they knew he wasn't performing at the top level, they thought the school would help motivate him, since they paid so much in tuition. The other family knew things were going bad, but they thought the school would give her more time to get acclimated.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the past week, I have heard of two incidents where private schools have counseled out students who were not doing well academically. From what I understand, the parents were told that the child was not invited back. That sounds pretty devastating, so I'm wondering if schools that "counsel out" students also help the students find a place at another private school? Or are the families basically on their own?

Anymore specific details in terms of age and how long the students had attended current school?

Generally speaking, I think counseled out from an ongoing school usually means the there has been a longstanding question of whether the student could do the work and or would do the work that have involved many faculty/student/parent counseling meetings as to the school's concerns and reaching out to find a way for it to work. That's where the counseling comes in... during the period of trying to make it work but the student either has to catch up in areas where he/she lags or be more productive in completing assignments. The counseling is probably not as involved in the part where the student is not invited back, but in some cases, if a student has made great effort but it just wasn't a right fit, then I think that some schools would in fact recommend and possibly advocate for student to be admitted to to schools better matched for student and explain that the student was a diligent student but needed to but wasn't cut out for present school because of x but would be a strong candidate for the new school because of y skills.