Another massive sexual abuse scandal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Catholic Church is a cult that systematically abuses children and pays to cover it up.

Shame on all practicing Catholics. Shame on you.

DH was raised Catholic, and he calls it a cult. Loathes it, and thinks all should quit the church because of it's association with and history of child abuse. A sick, sick underbelly to that religion.

[Anonymous]

They should let priests marry, and this problem would end. It's a ridiculous practice that began centuries ago as a way to make the church appear more pious. The church was not always like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Celibacy isn't "forced" in Catholicism since all priests choose to be priests. No one is born into or has to choose that path. And contrary to public perception, the majority of them either respect their vow and handle it well or leave the priesthood if they find it not as they expected. It is horrible and 100% true that for many, many years the priesthood became a refuge for many men who could not function in families or society because of their addictions. Knowing they'd be shunned by their families and outcasts otherwise, they fled to an institution where they found they could hide. The Church worried much more about protecting itself than about facing the crimes (I once heard it described as one gigantic family who chose to hide the creepy, handsy uncle rather than turn him in and face public embarrassment which I thought was simplistic but oddly relatable) and that only fueled the entry of men who should have never been ordained. However if anyone takes the time to look into priest formation in the last decades you will see an enormous change in how men are vetted and counseled. There are good men for the present and future Church but they carry the sins of those before them who betrayed that vow. The past was wrong, wrong, wrong but it's sad that good people today are vilified for trying so hard to faithfully rebuild the Church.

A friend of mine from college entered seminary to become a priest. He left. He said the homosexuality was rampant and that he’d been propositioned by three priests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Celibacy isn't "forced" in Catholicism since all priests choose to be priests. No one is born into or has to choose that path. And contrary to public perception, the majority of them either respect their vow and handle it well or leave the priesthood if they find it not as they expected. It is horrible and 100% true that for many, many years the priesthood became a refuge for many men who could not function in families or society because of their addictions. Knowing they'd be shunned by their families and outcasts otherwise, they fled to an institution where they found they could hide. The Church worried much more about protecting itself than about facing the crimes (I once heard it described as one gigantic family who chose to hide the creepy, handsy uncle rather than turn him in and face public embarrassment which I thought was simplistic but oddly relatable) and that only fueled the entry of men who should have never been ordained. However if anyone takes the time to look into priest formation in the last decades you will see an enormous change in how men are vetted and counseled. There are good men for the present and future Church but they carry the sins of those before them who betrayed that vow. The past was wrong, wrong, wrong but it's sad that good people today are vilified for trying so hard to faithfully rebuild the Church.

A friend of mine from college entered seminary to become a priest. He left. He said the homosexuality was rampant and that he’d been propositioned by three priests.

Not surprising -- I've seen groups of seminarians at public events who were openly gay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Celibacy isn't "forced" in Catholicism since all priests choose to be priests. No one is born into or has to choose that path. And contrary to public perception, the majority of them either respect their vow and handle it well or leave the priesthood if they find it not as they expected. It is horrible and 100% true that for many, many years the priesthood became a refuge for many men who could not function in families or society because of their addictions. Knowing they'd be shunned by their families and outcasts otherwise, they fled to an institution where they found they could hide. The Church worried much more about protecting itself than about facing the crimes (I once heard it described as one gigantic family who chose to hide the creepy, handsy uncle rather than turn him in and face public embarrassment which I thought was simplistic but oddly relatable) and that only fueled the entry of men who should have never been ordained. However if anyone takes the time to look into priest formation in the last decades you will see an enormous change in how men are vetted and counseled. There are good men for the present and future Church but they carry the sins of those before them who betrayed that vow. The past was wrong, wrong, wrong but it's sad that good people today are vilified for trying so hard to faithfully rebuild the Church.

Oh the past. All forgotten all forgiven. All those broken souls. Can’t do anything about that anymore. The Pope is ‘saddened’ by this report! Saddened??? He should be furious. He should put together a commission to root out the offenders and remove them from the church AND turn them over to authorities. He should be selling property and art works to give to the victims to try to make them whole and ensure they have access to the best therapy and support money can buy. The good men from the past and present KNEW this was going on and still stayed within the organization! This isn’t a piece of burnt toast where you can just scrape off the charred parts and cover it in butter. It is rotten to the core and continues to make the safety of the weakest members of their flock their top priority. It is rotten to the core and any support of the church is supporting the abuse of children. It is repugnant no matter how you slice it.

[Anonymous]

How do those numbers compare to what happened in the US? Just trying to get my head around the scale. I think 200k is low for the US estimates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They should let priests marry, and this problem would end. It's a ridiculous practice that began centuries ago as a way to make the church appear more pious. The church was not always like this.

You should review your church history. Celibacy has nothing to do with “appearing pious.” It has very deep historical and spiritual/theological roots. Married priests would do nothing about abuse issues. Most abusers in the “real” (non-Church) world are married, including any number of Protestant ministers who have been caught in the same misbehavior, not to mention scout leaders, teachers, health care workers, etc., etc., etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Catholic Church is a cult that systematically abuses children and pays to cover it up.

Shame on all practicing Catholics. Shame on you.

DH was raised Catholic, and he calls it a cult. Loathes it, and thinks all should quit the church because of it's association with and history of child abuse. A sick, sick underbelly to that religion.

There are more than 1.3 billion (with a “b”) Catholics in the world. You think they’re responsible for the predations of a comparatively few perverts and the acts and/or omissions of bad administrators? That’s like saying the Chinese people are responsible for the evils of Communism, or the Cambodians for the evils of Pol Pot. The vast majority of those 1.3 billion people, although sinners, are doing their best to find their way through this life and into what they hope will be eternal life according to a belief system in which they find solace and hope. Those 1.3 billion people perform untold hidden works of charity. The “Church” isn’t the administrative entity — that entity exists to serve (sometimes very poorly) the needs of those 1.3 billion people.

How dare PP “shame” 1.3 billion fellow people doing the best they can! How dare the other PP deride as a “cult” a two-millennia old belief system the fundamental tenets of which are love and self-giving! Neither PP would dare criticize other belief systems that treat child rape, particularly of girls, as normal. At least the Catholics admit it is a sin. Complain all you want about the management, but you have no right to attack the 1.3 billion regular believers who are as much victims as anyone else of these scandals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Catholic Church is a cult that systematically abuses children and pays to cover it up.

Shame on all practicing Catholics. Shame on you.

DH was raised Catholic, and he calls it a cult. Loathes it, and thinks all should quit the church because of it's association with and history of child abuse. A sick, sick underbelly to that religion.

There are more than 1.3 billion (with a “b”) Catholics in the world. You think they’re responsible for the predations of a comparatively few perverts and the acts and/or omissions of bad administrators? That’s like saying the Chinese people are responsible for the evils of Communism, or the Cambodians for the evils of Pol Pot. The vast majority of those 1.3 billion people, although sinners, are doing their best to find their way through this life and into what they hope will be eternal life according to a belief system in which they find solace and hope. Those 1.3 billion people perform untold hidden works of charity. The “Church” isn’t the administrative entity — that entity exists to serve (sometimes very poorly) the needs of those 1.3 billion people.

How dare PP “shame” 1.3 billion fellow people doing the best they can! How dare the other PP deride as a “cult” a two-millennia old belief system the fundamental tenets of which are love and self-giving! Neither PP would dare criticize other belief systems that treat child rape, particularly of girls, as normal. At least the Catholics admit it is a sin. Complain all you want about the management, but you have no right to attack the 1.3 billion regular believers who are as much victims as anyone else of these scandals.

PP says, "That’s like saying the Chinese people are responsible for the evils of Communism, or the Cambodians for the evils of Pol Pot."

No, not really. The chinese and the Cambodians couldn't help being born chinese or cambodian. The Catholics CHOOSE to remain catholic. It's quite different.

But, you say, "at least Catholics admit it is a sin." Then they confess their sins, and are absolved, and then sin again -- and millions of children suffer for it. That's quite a dandy two-millennia old belief system you got there!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should let priests marry, and this problem would end. It's a ridiculous practice that began centuries ago as a way to make the church appear more pious. The church was not always like this.

You should review your church history. Celibacy has nothing to do with “appearing pious.” It has very deep historical and spiritual/theological roots. Married priests would do nothing about abuse issues. Most abusers in the “real” (non-Church) world are married, including any number of Protestant ministers who have been caught in the same misbehavior, not to mention scout leaders, teachers, health care workers, etc., etc., etc.

So your argument is "everybody does it?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Celibacy isn't "forced" in Catholicism since all priests choose to be priests. No one is born into or has to choose that path. And contrary to public perception, the majority of them either respect their vow and handle it well or leave the priesthood if they find it not as they expected. It is horrible and 100% true that for many, many years the priesthood became a refuge for many men who could not function in families or society because of their addictions. Knowing they'd be shunned by their families and outcasts otherwise, they fled to an institution where they found they could hide. The Church worried much more about protecting itself than about facing the crimes (I once heard it described as one gigantic family who chose to hide the creepy, handsy uncle rather than turn him in and face public embarrassment which I thought was simplistic but oddly relatable) and that only fueled the entry of men who should have never been ordained. However if anyone takes the time to look into priest formation in the last decades you will see an enormous change in how men are vetted and counseled. There are good men for the present and future Church but they carry the sins of those before them who betrayed that vow. The past was wrong, wrong, wrong but it's sad that good people today are vilified for trying so hard to faithfully rebuild the Church.

Oh the past. All forgotten all forgiven. All those broken souls. Can’t do anything about that anymore. The Pope is ‘saddened’ by this report! Saddened??? He should be furious. He should put together a commission to root out the offenders and remove them from the church AND turn them over to authorities. He should be selling property and art works to give to the victims to try to make them whole and ensure they have access to the best therapy and support money can buy. The good men from the past and present KNEW this was going on and still stayed within the organization! This isn’t a piece of burnt toast where you can just scrape off the charred parts and cover it in butter. It is rotten to the core and continues to make the safety of the weakest members of their flock their top priority. It is rotten to the core and any support of the church is supporting the abuse of children. It is repugnant no matter how you slice it.

but, but but ---- the mass ....the sacraments ----- it makes me feel so good..............

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Catholic Church is a cult that systematically abuses children and pays to cover it up.

Shame on all practicing Catholics. Shame on you.

DH was raised Catholic, and he calls it a cult. Loathes it, and thinks all should quit the church because of it's association with and history of child abuse. A sick, sick underbelly to that religion.

There are more than 1.3 billion (with a “b”) Catholics in the world. You think they’re responsible for the predations of a comparatively few perverts and the acts and/or omissions of bad administrators? That’s like saying the Chinese people are responsible for the evils of Communism, or the Cambodians for the evils of Pol Pot. The vast majority of those 1.3 billion people, although sinners, are doing their best to find their way through this life and into what they hope will be eternal life according to a belief system in which they find solace and hope. Those 1.3 billion people perform untold hidden works of charity. The “Church” isn’t the administrative entity — that entity exists to serve (sometimes very poorly) the needs of those 1.3 billion people.

How dare PP “shame” 1.3 billion fellow people doing the best they can! How dare the other PP deride as a “cult” a two-millennia old belief system the fundamental tenets of which are love and self-giving! Neither PP would dare criticize other belief systems that treat child rape, particularly of girls, as normal. At least the Catholics admit it is a sin. Complain all you want about the management, but you have no right to attack the 1.3 billion regular believers who are as much victims as anyone else of these scandals.

What’s a few million destroyed children because of all the other stuff we did and BTW this was covered up AT THE VERY TOP OF THE CHURCH! Pope after Pope allowed this! Your local priest knew this was a thing but shrugged his shoulders and arranged the pancake dinner. In any other org the “good” ones would have gathered and protested and called for a stop to it but they just let it go. Do all the mental gymnastics you want but it is wrong to support the Catholic Church in any way. It ‘ain’t the only church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should let priests marry, and this problem would end. It's a ridiculous practice that began centuries ago as a way to make the church appear more pious. The church was not always like this.

You should review your church history. Celibacy has nothing to do with “appearing pious.” It has very deep historical and spiritual/theological roots. Married priests would do nothing about abuse issues. Most abusers in the “real” (non-Church) world are married, including any number of Protestant ministers who have been caught in the same misbehavior, not to mention scout leaders, teachers, health care workers, etc., etc., etc.

So your argument is "everybody does it?"

Hardly. The assertion was that allowing priests to marry would prevent abuse cases. The many abuse cases involving married men in ministry and elsewhere demonstrates that the assertion is without foundation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Celibacy isn't "forced" in Catholicism since all priests choose to be priests. No one is born into or has to choose that path. And contrary to public perception, the majority of them either respect their vow and handle it well or leave the priesthood if they find it not as they expected. It is horrible and 100% true that for many, many years the priesthood became a refuge for many men who could not function in families or society because of their addictions. Knowing they'd be shunned by their families and outcasts otherwise, they fled to an institution where they found they could hide. The Church worried much more about protecting itself than about facing the crimes (I once heard it described as one gigantic family who chose to hide the creepy, handsy uncle rather than turn him in and face public embarrassment which I thought was simplistic but oddly relatable) and that only fueled the entry of men who should have never been ordained. However if anyone takes the time to look into priest formation in the last decades you will see an enormous change in how men are vetted and counseled. There are good men for the present and future Church but they carry the sins of those before them who betrayed that vow. The past was wrong, wrong, wrong but it's sad that good people today are vilified for trying so hard to faithfully rebuild the Church.

Oh the past. All forgotten all forgiven. All those broken souls. Can’t do anything about that anymore. The Pope is ‘saddened’ by this report! Saddened??? He should be furious. He should put together a commission to root out the offenders and remove them from the church AND turn them over to authorities. He should be selling property and art works to give to the victims to try to make them whole and ensure they have access to the best therapy and support money can buy. The good men from the past and present KNEW this was going on and still stayed within the organization! This isn’t a piece of burnt toast where you can just scrape off the charred parts and cover it in butter. It is rotten to the core and continues to make the safety of the weakest members of their flock their top priority. It is rotten to the core and any support of the church is supporting the abuse of children. It is repugnant no matter how you slice it.

but, but but ---- the mass ....the sacraments ----- it makes me feel so good..............

You’re obviously not here for a serious discussion. Puerile mockery is hardly persuasive.

[Anonymous]

So let’s say God is Catholic. You die. You get to the gates of heave and he says « Were you a good Catholic? » and you say « I was but after all the abuse of children in your church I couldn’t continue to support it. So I left. I still believe in Jesus. Did all the things A good Catholic should apart from the sacraments and tried to live my fellow man » do you think he’d say « Sorry. You should have stuck with it » OR « Yeah they really messed it up. I totally get where you were coming from. Come on in »