Making an ADHD kid apologize to the teacher and whole class after a meltdown

[Anonymous]

OMG no! What in the world? To the whole class?!?! The teacher wasn't doing it in order to help OP's child at all. Class disruptions are common at that age. Does she ask every child to apologize to the whole class?

I would also ask why the teacher was asking her to do an activity which clearly frustrated her previously. I would really worry about implementation of the IEP with this teacher. She seems to have some very old fashioned ideas about kids which isn't good for ANY of the kids.

[Anonymous]

There are very few teachers I would trust to handle a situation like this, and the ones I would trust would never do it bc WTF for? Over yelling about a piece of paper? The kids have moved on—why draw attention to it again? Particularly as this is an area of challenge for this girl and will likely happen again. It shows me that the teacher believes the girl will somehow learn emotional regulation by apologizing. It’s ineffective and ignorant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see anything wrong with that.

So if a kid on chemo throws up in the class, do they have to apologize for disrupting the class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder . . . I could sort of see a scenario in which a kid whose behavior has disrupted the class apologizes but is also able to use this as an opportunity to explain what it is like to have ADHD. What brings this to mind is that years ago my kid and a bunch of other kids with IEPs did puppetry classes and learned to give presentations using Kids on the Block Puppets, specifically the characters who do represent kids with ADHD and some other things. They presented to elementary classes and it was amazingly effective at teaching them about their disabilities and giving them words to explain to other people. They got to the point where they could easily respond extemporaneously to questions kids asked. These were 9 to 12 year old kids doing the presentations.

I also think what OP learned, that it wasn't done as a really elaborate deal, is also ok.

Plus, then when the other kids tell Mom and Dad about the kid in their class who tears up paper and yells also tell Mom and Dad the kid also had to say they were sorry to the whole class Mom and Dad are maybe less likely to start fuming about their kid having to be in the class with the SN kid.

This post is outrageous. No this is not in any way acceptable and no one needs to coddle the parents who are upset that sn kids are in the same class with their children.

DP. If the point of inclusive classrooms is to teach kids, both SN and non-SN kids, to live in the world successfully, then parents don't need to be "coddled" but children need to learn how to deal with each other. That goes both ways, and an apology is a great tool in the process.

A forced apology is not a "tool" to deal with kids with autism getting overwhelmed. It's got no therepeutic value at all. How about the teacher formally apologize to the class for failing to implement strategies to help OP's child? Ha.

Yep. There is actual research about this. And then what do you do with a kid with social anxiety who refuses to apologize - it forces an unnecessary power struggle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are very few teachers I would trust to handle a situation like this, and the ones I would trust would never do it bc WTF for? Over yelling about a piece of paper? The kids have moved on—why draw attention to it again? Particularly as this is an area of challenge for this girl and will likely happen again. It shows me that the teacher believes the girl will somehow learn emotional regulation by apologizing. It’s ineffective and ignorant.

good point on trust. the school social worker is working with my DS on things like apologies as part of his IEP. I would trust her to have this conversation and possibly encourage an apology but she would never force it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see anything wrong with that.

+1

I’d think it would help relationships with peers who might otherwise feel resentment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see anything wrong with that.

So if a kid on chemo throws up in the class, do they have to apologize for disrupting the class?

Kids throw up in class all the time. Chemo or not. It’s not usual for kids to tear up paper and yell during class. And I apologized just two days ago for vomiting in public after chemo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see anything wrong with that.

So if a kid on chemo throws up in the class, do they have to apologize for disrupting the class?

Kids throw up in class all the time. Chemo or not. It’s not usual for kids to tear up paper and yell during class. And I apologized just two days ago for vomiting in public after chemo.

So did a person in authority over you make you feel compelled to publicly apologize in front of a large group of people? That's the issue here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see anything wrong with that.

+1

I’d think it would help relationships with peers who might otherwise feel resentment.

How about the peers apologize for feeling resentment about behavior she can't help/isn't being helped with?

Oh, you think she should apologize because her behavior wasn't "usual"? Her behavior is part of her disability. So you're basically asking her to humiliate herself and apologize for her disability.

Note: I think learning to apologize/take responsibility for behavior is a huge goal for a lot of our kids. But this ain't it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMG no! What in the world? To the whole class?!?! The teacher wasn't doing it in order to help OP's child at all. Class disruptions are common at that age. Does she ask every child to apologize to the whole class?

I would also ask why the teacher was asking her to do an activity which clearly frustrated her previously. I would really worry about implementation of the IEP with this teacher. She seems to have some very old fashioned ideas about kids which isn't good for ANY of the kids.

This.... is an argument against integrated classrooms. A teacher in an integrated classroom cannot select activities based solely on the needs of one child. I could see suggesting that she do a different activity than the rest of the class maybe, but it depends on the activity -- maybe it was teaching a foundational skill they need to move into another area, and not learning it could lead to additional frustration later. It is really hard to make a blanket judgment without understanding the details of the situation.

Which is why I'm also reluctant to say the teacher was wrong in suggesting the apology. It's really not clear from OP's comments how this was carried out. If the teacher demanded a command apology in front of the entire class with everyone staring at the girl, then yes, I agree -- shaming and in appropriate. But if the teacher had a conversation with the class about what happened and was empathetic and thoughtful about it, tying the situation to classroom rules around mutual respect and kindness, and part of the conversation involved OP's daughter voluntarily (not forced) apologizing for the outburst, I feel totally different.

Like there's a very big difference between "Larla, stand up and apologize to the class for your outburst right now!" and "Ok, now that we've all talked as a group about how this situation made us feel, Larla, would you be interested in apologizing to your classmates? It is up to you but sometimes apologizing can help us all move forward."

I don't think apologies are automatically bad and there is a developmentally useful way of deploying them if they are voluntary and part of general conflict resolution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG no! What in the world? To the whole class?!?! The teacher wasn't doing it in order to help OP's child at all. Class disruptions are common at that age. Does she ask every child to apologize to the whole class?

I would also ask why the teacher was asking her to do an activity which clearly frustrated her previously. I would really worry about implementation of the IEP with this teacher. She seems to have some very old fashioned ideas about kids which isn't good for ANY of the kids.

This.... is an argument against integrated classrooms. A teacher in an integrated classroom cannot select activities based solely on the needs of one child. I could see suggesting that she do a different activity than the rest of the class maybe, but it depends on the activity -- maybe it was teaching a foundational skill they need to move into another area, and not learning it could lead to additional frustration later. It is really hard to make a blanket judgment without understanding the details of the situation.

Which is why I'm also reluctant to say the teacher was wrong in suggesting the apology. It's really not clear from OP's comments how this was carried out. If the teacher demanded a command apology in front of the entire class with everyone staring at the girl, then yes, I agree -- shaming and in appropriate. But if the teacher had a conversation with the class about what happened and was empathetic and thoughtful about it, tying the situation to classroom rules around mutual respect and kindness, and part of the conversation involved OP's daughter voluntarily (not forced) apologizing for the outburst, I feel totally different.

Like there's a very big difference between "Larla, stand up and apologize to the class for your outburst right now!" and "Ok, now that we've all talked as a group about how this situation made us feel, Larla, would you be interested in apologizing to your classmates? It is up to you but sometimes apologizing can help us all move forward."

I don't think apologies are automatically bad and there is a developmentally useful way of deploying them if they are voluntary and part of general conflict resolution.

jfc no. I can literally think of nothing worse to do in response to a meltdown than having a whole-class discussion and apology about it with the child present. are you for real?

as for the activity … umm the whole point of the IEP is modification and accommodation. Says it right there on the tin - “individualized.”

[Anonymous]

A lot of folks raising ADHD kids who will never, ever be able to function without a lot of social accommodation. Best of luck to you.

In our house everyone apologizes to each other, especially when one of us has lost control. Adults, children. It's not a punishment. It's a way of acknowledging how our actions impact others and making sure people understand we care about their well being. Whether you have ADHD or depression or anxiety or are just having a bad day or whatever. No one is entitled to yell and rip things up without some accountability.

I would have zero issues with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of folks raising ADHD kids who will never, ever be able to function without a lot of social accommodation. Best of luck to you.

In our house everyone apologizes to each other, especially when one of us has lost control. Adults, children. It's not a punishment. It's a way of acknowledging how our actions impact others and making sure people understand we care about their well being. Whether you have ADHD or depression or anxiety or are just having a bad day or whatever. No one is entitled to yell and rip things up without some accountability.

I would have zero issues with this.

Do you have a child with autism who has meltdowns?

I mean, you should charge a million dollars for your miracle therapy of "no one is entitled to yell" and "accountability." maybe you would even get a nobel prize.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of folks raising ADHD kids who will never, ever be able to function without a lot of social accommodation. Best of luck to you.

In our house everyone apologizes to each other, especially when one of us has lost control. Adults, children. It's not a punishment. It's a way of acknowledging how our actions impact others and making sure people understand we care about their well being. Whether you have ADHD or depression or anxiety or are just having a bad day or whatever. No one is entitled to yell and rip things up without some accountability.

I would have zero issues with this.

Do you have a child with autism who has meltdowns?

I mean, you should charge a million dollars for your miracle therapy of "no one is entitled to yell" and "accountability." maybe you would even get a nobel prize.

Also I don't know what kind of passive-aggressive dig your first sentence was supposed to be, but it sure does contradict your "in our house everyone apologizes" moralizing. But it's instructive -- people who fixate on the distressed kid apologizing are generally more motivated by a sense of justice and control, than figuring out what the kid actually needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of folks raising ADHD kids who will never, ever be able to function without a lot of social accommodation. Best of luck to you.

In our house everyone apologizes to each other, especially when one of us has lost control. Adults, children. It's not a punishment. It's a way of acknowledging how our actions impact others and making sure people understand we care about their well being. Whether you have ADHD or depression or anxiety or are just having a bad day or whatever. No one is entitled to yell and rip things up without some accountability.

I would have zero issues with this.

Do you have a child with autism who has meltdowns?

I mean, you should charge a million dollars for your miracle therapy of "no one is entitled to yell" and "accountability." maybe you would even get a nobel prize.

I think the child in question has a diagnosis of adhd. Screaming meltdowns that disrupt the class at school aren’t common with adhd. It may be that op’s child has a further undiagnosed condition that explains the behavior but I don’t think it’s odd for people not to take adhd as sufficient explanation. In any case the class wide apology is bad. Is it maybe a poorly executed restorative justice thing?