If your child did not submit SAT scores, where did they get in?

[Anonymous]

Georgia Tech. Also accepted at Penn State, Virginia Tech, UMD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Emory

I find this shocking. Emory has a stellar rep and doesn’t need to take test optional. Every kid has a high GPA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is little to no correlation between SAT scores and performance in college. High school grades are highly predictive of grades in college. What SAT scores ARE correlated with is family SES. Wealthier families can pay for tutoring and counseling. So schools use tests as a way to screen for who can pay and who might need financial aid. They can assert that they are need blind, but as long as they are using SAT scores, they are including the likely ability to be full pay as part of their selection criteria.

Wouldn’t zip code be a better proxy?

Likely so, but that would be more obviously selecting on wealth instead of a supposedly neutral metric.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is little to no correlation between SAT scores and performance in college. High school grades are highly predictive of grades in college. What SAT scores ARE correlated with is family SES. Wealthier families can pay for tutoring and counseling. So schools use tests as a way to screen for who can pay and who might need financial aid. They can assert that they are need blind, but as long as they are using SAT scores, they are including the likely ability to be full pay as part of their selection criteria.

Please provide a source to support your assertion. Otherwise, what you said has no credibility. Without source/support, I can claim whatever I want for my own interest.

Sure. Plenty of sources.
https://www.rpajournal.com/dev/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/SF.pdf

This being DC, educational policy wonks post on message boards. 🙂

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is little to no correlation between SAT scores and performance in college. High school grades are highly predictive of grades in college. What SAT scores ARE correlated with is family SES. Wealthier families can pay for tutoring and counseling. So schools use tests as a way to screen for who can pay and who might need financial aid. They can assert that they are need blind, but as long as they are using SAT scores, they are including the likely ability to be full pay as part of their selection criteria.

Please provide a source to support your assertion. Otherwise, what you said has no credibility. Without source/support, I can claim whatever I want for my own interest.

DP: PP is only partially accurate. SAT/ACT scores ARE highly correlated with SES. But SAT scores are predictive of first year grades in college even controlling for SES and HS GPA. But they aren't that predictive of college graduation or college GPA after the first year. Also, both the relationships between GPA and standardized tests and college outcomes vary widely by high schools.

There are a lot of different studies that show different aspects of this so it's not that easy to cite one (or even just several). But if you're interested, just go to scholar.google.com, look in studies post 2016 or so (5 years is a good time to see recent enough impacts because they often have to work with earlier data) and type in socioeconomic status, standardized tests, college outcomes and see the range of studies. The key thing though is not to just go for the study that cherry picks the evidence for what you want to believe. The College Board for instance doesn't control for SES in many of its studies of SAT validity, and looks at first year GPA and 2nd year retention because that's where the SAT works. Those who are opposed to standardized tests focus on overall college GPA and college graduation rates and control for SES--often neglecting the positive findings of first year impacts.

PP here. Yes this is right, I was focused on longer outcomes rather than first year. Presumably all those rich kids are better prepared at first but them get distracted by secret societies and finals clubs and such and their performance declines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is little to no correlation between SAT scores and performance in college. High school grades are highly predictive of grades in college. What SAT scores ARE correlated with is family SES. Wealthier families can pay for tutoring and counseling. So schools use tests as a way to screen for who can pay and who might need financial aid. They can assert that they are need blind, but as long as they are using SAT scores, they are including the likely ability to be full pay as part of their selection criteria.

Please provide a source to support your assertion. Otherwise, what you said has no credibility. Without source/support, I can claim whatever I want for my own interest.

Sure. Plenty of sources.
https://www.rpajournal.com/dev/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/SF.pdf

This being DC, educational policy wonks post on message boards. 🙂

It’s a ten year old article citing even older data. But where does it say that admissions officers use test scores to screen for family SES?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is little to no correlation between SAT scores and performance in college. High school grades are highly predictive of grades in college. What SAT scores ARE correlated with is family SES. Wealthier families can pay for tutoring and counseling. So schools use tests as a way to screen for who can pay and who might need financial aid. They can assert that they are need blind, but as long as they are using SAT scores, they are including the likely ability to be full pay as part of their selection criteria.

I agree, but doesn't it signal full pay if the student is not applying for financial aid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Emory

I find this shocking. Emory has a stellar rep and doesn’t need to take test optional. Every kid has a high GPA.

Well, maybe this kid has a high GPA too, but just chose not to send scores.

[Anonymous]

GWU

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bowdoin

interesting. Top grades and ECs, I assume?

Yes to both - and a strong course load. ECs at the national level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If in a relatively affluent or upper middle class demographic it is a red flag if you do not submit test scores. We have a college consultant and he said this was an issue last year with admissions

Our college consultant said the same. Test optional is really meant to remove unfair barriers for students who would otherwise be a strong match for a school. Unless it's obvious from the rest of the application what that barrier would be (lower SES, first generation college student, English as a second language, recent personal or family illness or hardship), it's just a red flag that the applicant had every opportunity to do well on the test and did not.

This topic came up because our private school kid was hinting around that maybe he should just apply to test optional places so he didn't have to prep for the SAT. The counselor shut down that idea quickly.

[Anonymous]

Accepted: UMD, Fordham, Pitt, Rutgers, Pace
Waitlisted: NYU
Declined: Boston U, Northwestern

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Accepted: UMD, Fordham, Pitt, Rutgers, Pace
Waitlisted: NYU
Declined: Boston U, Northwestern

This list is very similar to my current senior’s list. Out of curiosity, what was your student’s GPA, what was the test score that they chose not to submit (or were they truly unable to test in the pandemic?), and what kinds of ECs did they have? Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bowdoin

interesting. Top grades and ECs, I assume?

Yes to both - and a strong course load. ECs at the national level.

This is a bit disingenuous. Bowdoin hasn't required test scores for 25-30 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Accepted: UMD, Fordham, Pitt, Rutgers, Pace
Waitlisted: NYU
Declined: Boston U, Northwestern

This list is very similar to my current senior’s list. Out of curiosity, what was your student’s GPA, what was the test score that they chose not to submit (or were they truly unable to test in the pandemic?), and what kinds of ECs did they have? Thanks.

UW GPA was 3.7
Never took SATs (due to pandemic)
Some ECs included dance, founder of a club, and worked at local mom & pop shop
No hooks and public school (not a W one)