US has no good options in Ukraine

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IMO we need elder statesmen to be involved in some type of diplomatic resolution (and maybe they are, behind the scenes) Obama, Clinton, Bush, even Jimmy Carter. We need seasoned experienced leaders to get involved and behind this.

You are joking.
The same "seasoned experienced leaders" who have got us where we are?

I agree this administration has failed in its efforts. And, it makes me angry.
They didn't enact sanctions soon enough.
They didn't send lethal arms to Ukraine for their defense soon enough, even though they had weeks if not months to do this.
They are still buying oil from Russia.
These are the same people who planned the withdrawal from Afghanistan, so I was not optimistic.

But, most of the people you listed are not any more capable of dealing with Russia. Remember Hillary's "reset" with Russia? Remember what happened to Crimea under Obama?
And, Jimmy Carter? Probably the worst in terms of decision making when it comes to foreign policy?
No thanks.

Most of the things you suggest would have rapidly and needlessly escalated the situation. Also would have made it impossible for US to rally support from around the world and would have antagonized China.

We can't keep overstretching ourselves in conflicts around the world. The painful reality is that our leadership has to make very tough choices. I think Biden and team have handled this very well thus far.

BS. The situation escalated on Putin's timeline because we didn't act.
You are believing the narrative this administration is spinning because they have been utter failures.

The US was warning the world that Putin was going to invade, and no one believed them. Plenty of people on this site didn't believe it. How much could the US have done at that point?

Once Putin made the decision to invade, there was nothing the US could have done. Sending in troops to Ukraine would have led to Russians shooting at US soldiers, and vice versa. Does anyone really want the countries that hold the world’s two largest nuclear arsenals shooting at each other?

Honestly, we should have been more aggressive with Putin after he annexed Crimea. The US and European response to that was weak and sent the message to Putin that he could escalate and the response would not be anything he couldn’t handle.

By doing what? Specifically?

And how do you suppose Trump repeating Russian propaganda and the GOP falling in line may have negatively impacted things over the past 4 years?

I never said Trump didn’t negatively impact things, but if you’ve been following Russia since 2014, you can see that the cycle of Putin becoming more aggressive globally really started with the Crimea annexation and the lackluster Western response.

Specifically, we should have placed US/NATO forces on high alert and placed US aircraft carriers in the Bosporus strait. European leaders should have called Putin and told him that if he does not withdraw all Russian presence from Crimea (outside of Black Sea fleet access, which we could negotiate), we will not remove the carriers. Blocking him into the Black Sea would have been disastrous for him and I believe there’s a chance he would have backed down at that point.

Republicans would not support any democrat president. You reap what you sow.

Like I noted.

You can live life under fantasy and conjecture but it’s not healthy so seek help.

But what we DO KNOW and can PROVE:

Under Trump:
Heavy sanctions on Russia
No Wars
Russia didn’t invade Ukraine

Under Biden
Lifted sanctions
Zelensky and others tried to encourage Biden to our sanctions back on, Biden refused
Russia invaded Ukraine

Under Obama:
Russia annexes Crimea
Weak response led by US hurts Russia a little but not enough
Russia continues to be belligerent


Those are facts we can actually see.

Under trump
- trump meets with Putin by himself who knows what deal was struck.
- Trump tries to breakup nato
- trump tries to stop all weapon deals with Ukraine
- trump threatens Ukraine
- Putin places bounties on US military personnel
- Russians attack use forces in Syria
- Russian systematically attack US elections
- Russians lunch hacking attacks against US.
- all conservatives organizations(NRA, etc) are under Russia influence
- republicans storm the Capitol with Russian support
- all republicans/conservatives fall inline with trump’s Putin love.

Under Democrat President
- republicans/conservatives undermine any action against Russia
- republicans/conservatives blindly support Putin.
- republicans/conservatives work to destroy NATO

Once again conjecture with little or no facts.

Lien I said
Under Trump:
No war
No invasion
Economic prosperity despite the lefts attempts to undermine all of it


Under Biden:
High gas prices
Empty shelves
Skyrocketing inflation
War
Chaos
Listed sanctions despite resistance from Zelensky and others who said it was a bad idea
Imports more Russian oil



Those are visible and tangible facts.

They are also outcomes from previous administrations. Nothing happens in a vacuum. Changes in policy on a national or global scale are hardly ever immediate. Its built upon what has previously happened.

Like I said…

Under Trump/
No war
Peace and prosperity
Low energy costs

Under Biden
War
High gas prices
Skyrocketing inflation
Empty shelves
Global chaos

You’re just chanting like a brainless parrot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IMO we need elder statesmen to be involved in some type of diplomatic resolution (and maybe they are, behind the scenes) Obama, Clinton, Bush, even Jimmy Carter. We need seasoned experienced leaders to get involved and behind this.

You are joking.
The same "seasoned experienced leaders" who have got us where we are?

I agree this administration has failed in its efforts. And, it makes me angry.
They didn't enact sanctions soon enough.
They didn't send lethal arms to Ukraine for their defense soon enough, even though they had weeks if not months to do this.
They are still buying oil from Russia.
These are the same people who planned the withdrawal from Afghanistan, so I was not optimistic.

But, most of the people you listed are not any more capable of dealing with Russia. Remember Hillary's "reset" with Russia? Remember what happened to Crimea under Obama?
And, Jimmy Carter? Probably the worst in terms of decision making when it comes to foreign policy?
No thanks.

Most of the things you suggest would have rapidly and needlessly escalated the situation. Also would have made it impossible for US to rally support from around the world and would have antagonized China.

We can't keep overstretching ourselves in conflicts around the world. The painful reality is that our leadership has to make very tough choices. I think Biden and team have handled this very well thus far.

BS. The situation escalated on Putin's timeline because we didn't act.
You are believing the narrative this administration is spinning because they have been utter failures.

The US was warning the world that Putin was going to invade, and no one believed them. Plenty of people on this site didn't believe it. How much could the US have done at that point?

Once Putin made the decision to invade, there was nothing the US could have done. Sending in troops to Ukraine would have led to Russians shooting at US soldiers, and vice versa. Does anyone really want the countries that hold the world’s two largest nuclear arsenals shooting at each other?

Honestly, we should have been more aggressive with Putin after he annexed Crimea. The US and European response to that was weak and sent the message to Putin that he could escalate and the response would not be anything he couldn’t handle.

By doing what? Specifically?

And how do you suppose Trump repeating Russian propaganda and the GOP falling in line may have negatively impacted things over the past 4 years?

I never said Trump didn’t negatively impact things, but if you’ve been following Russia since 2014, you can see that the cycle of Putin becoming more aggressive globally really started with the Crimea annexation and the lackluster Western response.

Specifically, we should have placed US/NATO forces on high alert and placed US aircraft carriers in the Bosporus strait. European leaders should have called Putin and told him that if he does not withdraw all Russian presence from Crimea (outside of Black Sea fleet access, which we could negotiate), we will not remove the carriers. Blocking him into the Black Sea would have been disastrous for him and I believe there’s a chance he would have backed down at that point.

If i remember correctly, Putin and Erdogan were buddy buddy at the time. NATO was unfortunately not unified then.

True. However, the US could have unilaterally placed aircraft carriers, if not in the Bosphorus Strait (if Turkey wouldn’t have allowed it), in international waters as close as we could get to it.

That would have been a bad move. Our (NATO and EU, Japan, et al) unity has been our strength. A go it alone strategy would have demonstrated weakness.

Well, the alternative was essentially no action, which—as we’ve seen—has led to Putin feeling empowered to escalate for the past 8 years around the world, culminating in a brazen invasion of Ukraine.

...which has led to the complete destruction of the Russian economy, humiliation of the Russian military, and the reunified strength of NATO.

[Anonymous]

Large-scale mobilization will undermine the situation inside Russia: political, economic, social.

Their logistics are already overstretched. Russia is really, really big. Even if the mobilization were politically, economically, and socially feasible, gathering the manpower and equipment and deploying them would be challenging even within Russia which is, as the geographers say, "very big." And once they get the stuff to the borders, they have the hostile territory to deal with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IMO we need elder statesmen to be involved in some type of diplomatic resolution (and maybe they are, behind the scenes) Obama, Clinton, Bush, even Jimmy Carter. We need seasoned experienced leaders to get involved and behind this.

You are joking.
The same "seasoned experienced leaders" who have got us where we are?

I agree this administration has failed in its efforts. And, it makes me angry.
They didn't enact sanctions soon enough.
They didn't send lethal arms to Ukraine for their defense soon enough, even though they had weeks if not months to do this.
They are still buying oil from Russia.
These are the same people who planned the withdrawal from Afghanistan, so I was not optimistic.

But, most of the people you listed are not any more capable of dealing with Russia. Remember Hillary's "reset" with Russia? Remember what happened to Crimea under Obama?
And, Jimmy Carter? Probably the worst in terms of decision making when it comes to foreign policy?
No thanks.

Most of the things you suggest would have rapidly and needlessly escalated the situation. Also would have made it impossible for US to rally support from around the world and would have antagonized China.

We can't keep overstretching ourselves in conflicts around the world. The painful reality is that our leadership has to make very tough choices. I think Biden and team have handled this very well thus far.

BS. The situation escalated on Putin's timeline because we didn't act.
You are believing the narrative this administration is spinning because they have been utter failures.

The US was warning the world that Putin was going to invade, and no one believed them. Plenty of people on this site didn't believe it. How much could the US have done at that point?

Once Putin made the decision to invade, there was nothing the US could have done. Sending in troops to Ukraine would have led to Russians shooting at US soldiers, and vice versa. Does anyone really want the countries that hold the world’s two largest nuclear arsenals shooting at each other?

Honestly, we should have been more aggressive with Putin after he annexed Crimea. The US and European response to that was weak and sent the message to Putin that he could escalate and the response would not be anything he couldn’t handle.

By doing what? Specifically?

And how do you suppose Trump repeating Russian propaganda and the GOP falling in line may have negatively impacted things over the past 4 years?

I never said Trump didn’t negatively impact things, but if you’ve been following Russia since 2014, you can see that the cycle of Putin becoming more aggressive globally really started with the Crimea annexation and the lackluster Western response.

Specifically, we should have placed US/NATO forces on high alert and placed US aircraft carriers in the Bosporus strait. European leaders should have called Putin and told him that if he does not withdraw all Russian presence from Crimea (outside of Black Sea fleet access, which we could negotiate), we will not remove the carriers. Blocking him into the Black Sea would have been disastrous for him and I believe there’s a chance he would have backed down at that point.

If i remember correctly, Putin and Erdogan were buddy buddy at the time. NATO was unfortunately not unified then.

True. However, the US could have unilaterally placed aircraft carriers, if not in the Bosphorus Strait (if Turkey wouldn’t have allowed it), in international waters as close as we could get to it.

That would have been a bad move. Our (NATO and EU, Japan, et al) unity has been our strength. A go it alone strategy would have demonstrated weakness.

Well, the alternative was essentially no action, which—as we’ve seen—has led to Putin feeling empowered to escalate for the past 8 years around the world, culminating in a brazen invasion of Ukraine.

...which has led to the complete destruction of the Russian economy, humiliation of the Russian military, and the reunified strength of NATO.

And the destruction of Ukraine, which continues.

[Anonymous]

Kamala Harris should host a summit with Putin and Zelensky.

Foreign policy is about relationships. Sometimes it takes a woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's no end in sight.

Even if Russia agrees to a ceasefire or even to leave altogether (they won't), there's no reason to trust them.

Even if Putin is taken out or overthrown, there are still some like him who will try to fill that slot.

I'm very worried that Putin isn't the weak/foolish person who bit off more than he could chew per the current media spin. I wonder if he's so calculating that he is letting his B team take the hit so the rest of the world thinks he can and must be taken out by putting boots on the ground or getting more intimately involved. Then he will send his A Team to take out the opposition once they've gotten cocky and let their guard down. This is a guy who patiently concocts plots to kill his competition or detractors...using brutal methods, on his terms.

Lol no. This is the Russia A team. Stop thinking Putin is playing chess. He plays ticTacToe. There is no subtlety with Russians.

You're truly clueless.
Ask military experts

Says the report funded by Lockheed Martin
That Russia is holding back their A team? Look, maybe they have a B team (being kind) sitting somewhere in reserve, but that's debatable. Aside, every piece of military equipment they lose can't be easily replaced for a long time. Their military is a barbaric clown show.

Russia has to get spare parts from museums.
It looks like most of the tanks are T72, which are from 1970s.

That is all they have. They talked of building a modern tank for decades and the 5 t or they have they used for parades but they would break down and become a 30 ton road block.
Russias military is on par with Mexico.

No it’s not: https://www.globalfirepower.com/

Russia: 2
Mexico: 43

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kamala Harris should host a summit with Putin and Zelensky.

Foreign policy is about relationships. Sometimes it takes a woman.

LOL — you honestly think Putin would listen to a female POC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IMO we need elder statesmen to be involved in some type of diplomatic resolution (and maybe they are, behind the scenes) Obama, Clinton, Bush, even Jimmy Carter. We need seasoned experienced leaders to get involved and behind this.

You are joking.
The same "seasoned experienced leaders" who have got us where we are?

I agree this administration has failed in its efforts. And, it makes me angry.
They didn't enact sanctions soon enough.
They didn't send lethal arms to Ukraine for their defense soon enough, even though they had weeks if not months to do this.
They are still buying oil from Russia.
These are the same people who planned the withdrawal from Afghanistan, so I was not optimistic.

But, most of the people you listed are not any more capable of dealing with Russia. Remember Hillary's "reset" with Russia? Remember what happened to Crimea under Obama?
And, Jimmy Carter? Probably the worst in terms of decision making when it comes to foreign policy?
No thanks.

Most of the things you suggest would have rapidly and needlessly escalated the situation. Also would have made it impossible for US to rally support from around the world and would have antagonized China.

We can't keep overstretching ourselves in conflicts around the world. The painful reality is that our leadership has to make very tough choices. I think Biden and team have handled this very well thus far.

BS. The situation escalated on Putin's timeline because we didn't act.
You are believing the narrative this administration is spinning because they have been utter failures.

The US was warning the world that Putin was going to invade, and no one believed them. Plenty of people on this site didn't believe it. How much could the US have done at that point?

Once Putin made the decision to invade, there was nothing the US could have done. Sending in troops to Ukraine would have led to Russians shooting at US soldiers, and vice versa. Does anyone really want the countries that hold the world’s two largest nuclear arsenals shooting at each other?

Honestly, we should have been more aggressive with Putin after he annexed Crimea. The US and European response to that was weak and sent the message to Putin that he could escalate and the response would not be anything he couldn’t handle.

By doing what? Specifically?

And how do you suppose Trump repeating Russian propaganda and the GOP falling in line may have negatively impacted things over the past 4 years?

I never said Trump didn’t negatively impact things, but if you’ve been following Russia since 2014, you can see that the cycle of Putin becoming more aggressive globally really started with the Crimea annexation and the lackluster Western response.

Specifically, we should have placed US/NATO forces on high alert and placed US aircraft carriers in the Bosporus strait. European leaders should have called Putin and told him that if he does not withdraw all Russian presence from Crimea (outside of Black Sea fleet access, which we could negotiate), we will not remove the carriers. Blocking him into the Black Sea would have been disastrous for him and I believe there’s a chance he would have backed down at that point.

If i remember correctly, Putin and Erdogan were buddy buddy at the time. NATO was unfortunately not unified then.

True. However, the US could have unilaterally placed aircraft carriers, if not in the Bosphorus Strait (if Turkey wouldn’t have allowed it), in international waters as close as we could get to it.

That would have been a bad move. Our (NATO and EU, Japan, et al) unity has been our strength. A go it alone strategy would have demonstrated weakness.

Well, the alternative was essentially no action, which—as we’ve seen—has led to Putin feeling empowered to escalate for the past 8 years around the world, culminating in a brazen invasion of Ukraine.

...which has led to the complete destruction of the Russian economy, humiliation of the Russian military, and the reunified strength of NATO.

And the destruction of Ukraine, which continues.

And it's unstoppable rebirth. They did not have Zelensky then. They weren't fully unified. Now they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IMO we need elder statesmen to be involved in some type of diplomatic resolution (and maybe they are, behind the scenes) Obama, Clinton, Bush, even Jimmy Carter. We need seasoned experienced leaders to get involved and behind this.

You are joking.
The same "seasoned experienced leaders" who have got us where we are?

I agree this administration has failed in its efforts. And, it makes me angry.
They didn't enact sanctions soon enough.
They didn't send lethal arms to Ukraine for their defense soon enough, even though they had weeks if not months to do this.
They are still buying oil from Russia.
These are the same people who planned the withdrawal from Afghanistan, so I was not optimistic.

But, most of the people you listed are not any more capable of dealing with Russia. Remember Hillary's "reset" with Russia? Remember what happened to Crimea under Obama?
And, Jimmy Carter? Probably the worst in terms of decision making when it comes to foreign policy?
No thanks.

Most of the things you suggest would have rapidly and needlessly escalated the situation. Also would have made it impossible for US to rally support from around the world and would have antagonized China.

We can't keep overstretching ourselves in conflicts around the world. The painful reality is that our leadership has to make very tough choices. I think Biden and team have handled this very well thus far.

BS. The situation escalated on Putin's timeline because we didn't act.
You are believing the narrative this administration is spinning because they have been utter failures.

The US was warning the world that Putin was going to invade, and no one believed them. Plenty of people on this site didn't believe it. How much could the US have done at that point?

Once Putin made the decision to invade, there was nothing the US could have done. Sending in troops to Ukraine would have led to Russians shooting at US soldiers, and vice versa. Does anyone really want the countries that hold the world’s two largest nuclear arsenals shooting at each other?

Honestly, we should have been more aggressive with Putin after he annexed Crimea. The US and European response to that was weak and sent the message to Putin that he could escalate and the response would not be anything he couldn’t handle.

By doing what? Specifically?

And how do you suppose Trump repeating Russian propaganda and the GOP falling in line may have negatively impacted things over the past 4 years?

I never said Trump didn’t negatively impact things, but if you’ve been following Russia since 2014, you can see that the cycle of Putin becoming more aggressive globally really started with the Crimea annexation and the lackluster Western response.

Specifically, we should have placed US/NATO forces on high alert and placed US aircraft carriers in the Bosporus strait. European leaders should have called Putin and told him that if he does not withdraw all Russian presence from Crimea (outside of Black Sea fleet access, which we could negotiate), we will not remove the carriers. Blocking him into the Black Sea would have been disastrous for him and I believe there’s a chance he would have backed down at that point.

If i remember correctly, Putin and Erdogan were buddy buddy at the time. NATO was unfortunately not unified then.

True. However, the US could have unilaterally placed aircraft carriers, if not in the Bosphorus Strait (if Turkey wouldn’t have allowed it), in international waters as close as we could get to it.

That would have been a bad move. Our (NATO and EU, Japan, et al) unity has been our strength. A go it alone strategy would have demonstrated weakness.

Well, the alternative was essentially no action, which—as we’ve seen—has led to Putin feeling empowered to escalate for the past 8 years around the world, culminating in a brazen invasion of Ukraine.

...which has led to the complete destruction of the Russian economy, humiliation of the Russian military, and the reunified strength of NATO.

And the destruction of Ukraine, which continues.

And it's unstoppable rebirth. They did not have Zelensky then. They weren't fully unified. Now they are.

I am concerned that it will not be enough. Russia is not getting the military victory they wanted, but it’s clear they will stop at nothing to subjugate Ukraine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kamala Harris should host a summit with Putin and Zelensky.

Foreign policy is about relationships. Sometimes it takes a woman.

She has shown herself to be a complete lightweight. I think you must be a weird troll

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IMO we need elder statesmen to be involved in some type of diplomatic resolution (and maybe they are, behind the scenes) Obama, Clinton, Bush, even Jimmy Carter. We need seasoned experienced leaders to get involved and behind this.

You are joking.
The same "seasoned experienced leaders" who have got us where we are?

I agree this administration has failed in its efforts. And, it makes me angry.
They didn't enact sanctions soon enough.
They didn't send lethal arms to Ukraine for their defense soon enough, even though they had weeks if not months to do this.
They are still buying oil from Russia.
These are the same people who planned the withdrawal from Afghanistan, so I was not optimistic.

But, most of the people you listed are not any more capable of dealing with Russia. Remember Hillary's "reset" with Russia? Remember what happened to Crimea under Obama?
And, Jimmy Carter? Probably the worst in terms of decision making when it comes to foreign policy?
No thanks.

Most of the things you suggest would have rapidly and needlessly escalated the situation. Also would have made it impossible for US to rally support from around the world and would have antagonized China.

We can't keep overstretching ourselves in conflicts around the world. The painful reality is that our leadership has to make very tough choices. I think Biden and team have handled this very well thus far.

BS. The situation escalated on Putin's timeline because we didn't act.
You are believing the narrative this administration is spinning because they have been utter failures.

The US was warning the world that Putin was going to invade, and no one believed them. Plenty of people on this site didn't believe it. How much could the US have done at that point?

Once Putin made the decision to invade, there was nothing the US could have done. Sending in troops to Ukraine would have led to Russians shooting at US soldiers, and vice versa. Does anyone really want the countries that hold the world’s two largest nuclear arsenals shooting at each other?

Honestly, we should have been more aggressive with Putin after he annexed Crimea. The US and European response to that was weak and sent the message to Putin that he could escalate and the response would not be anything he couldn’t handle.

By doing what? Specifically?

And how do you suppose Trump repeating Russian propaganda and the GOP falling in line may have negatively impacted things over the past 4 years?

I never said Trump didn’t negatively impact things, but if you’ve been following Russia since 2014, you can see that the cycle of Putin becoming more aggressive globally really started with the Crimea annexation and the lackluster Western response.

Specifically, we should have placed US/NATO forces on high alert and placed US aircraft carriers in the Bosporus strait. European leaders should have called Putin and told him that if he does not withdraw all Russian presence from Crimea (outside of Black Sea fleet access, which we could negotiate), we will not remove the carriers. Blocking him into the Black Sea would have been disastrous for him and I believe there’s a chance he would have backed down at that point.

Republicans would not support any democrat president. You reap what you sow.

Like I noted.

You can live life under fantasy and conjecture but it’s not healthy so seek help.

But what we DO KNOW and can PROVE:

Under Trump:
Heavy sanctions on Russia
No Wars
Russia didn’t invade Ukraine

Under Biden
Lifted sanctions
Zelensky and others tried to encourage Biden to our sanctions back on, Biden refused
Russia invaded Ukraine

Under Obama:
Russia annexes Crimea
Weak response led by US hurts Russia a little but not enough
Russia continues to be belligerent


Those are facts we can actually see.

Under trump
- trump meets with Putin by himself who knows what deal was struck.
- Trump tries to breakup nato
- trump tries to stop all weapon deals with Ukraine
- trump threatens Ukraine
- Putin places bounties on US military personnel
- Russians attack use forces in Syria
- Russian systematically attack US elections
- Russians lunch hacking attacks against US.
- all conservatives organizations(NRA, etc) are under Russia influence
- republicans storm the Capitol with Russian support
- all republicans/conservatives fall inline with trump’s Putin love.

Under Democrat President
- republicans/conservatives undermine any action against Russia
- republicans/conservatives blindly support Putin.
- republicans/conservatives work to destroy NATO

Once again conjecture with little or no facts.

Lien I said
Under Trump:
No war
No invasion
Economic prosperity despite the lefts attempts to undermine all of it


Under Biden:
High gas prices
Empty shelves
Skyrocketing inflation
War
Chaos
Listed sanctions despite resistance from Zelensky and others who said it was a bad idea
Imports more Russian oil



Those are visible and tangible facts.

They are also outcomes from previous administrations. Nothing happens in a vacuum. Changes in policy on a national or global scale are hardly ever immediate. Its built upon what has previously happened.

With that comment, I think it appropriate to take a trip down memory lane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kamala Harris should host a summit with Putin and Zelensky.

Foreign policy is about relationships. Sometimes it takes a woman.

She has shown herself to be a complete lightweight. I think you must be a weird troll

You have to be a troll to call for our VP to take a role in the administration?!? Wtf people!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IMO we need elder statesmen to be involved in some type of diplomatic resolution (and maybe they are, behind the scenes) Obama, Clinton, Bush, even Jimmy Carter. We need seasoned experienced leaders to get involved and behind this.

You are joking.
The same "seasoned experienced leaders" who have got us where we are?

I agree this administration has failed in its efforts. And, it makes me angry.
They didn't enact sanctions soon enough.
They didn't send lethal arms to Ukraine for their defense soon enough, even though they had weeks if not months to do this.
They are still buying oil from Russia.
These are the same people who planned the withdrawal from Afghanistan, so I was not optimistic.

But, most of the people you listed are not any more capable of dealing with Russia. Remember Hillary's "reset" with Russia? Remember what happened to Crimea under Obama?
And, Jimmy Carter? Probably the worst in terms of decision making when it comes to foreign policy?
No thanks.

Most of the things you suggest would have rapidly and needlessly escalated the situation. Also would have made it impossible for US to rally support from around the world and would have antagonized China.

We can't keep overstretching ourselves in conflicts around the world. The painful reality is that our leadership has to make very tough choices. I think Biden and team have handled this very well thus far.

BS. The situation escalated on Putin's timeline because we didn't act.
You are believing the narrative this administration is spinning because they have been utter failures.

The US was warning the world that Putin was going to invade, and no one believed them. Plenty of people on this site didn't believe it. How much could the US have done at that point?

Once Putin made the decision to invade, there was nothing the US could have done. Sending in troops to Ukraine would have led to Russians shooting at US soldiers, and vice versa. Does anyone really want the countries that hold the world’s two largest nuclear arsenals shooting at each other?

Honestly, we should have been more aggressive with Putin after he annexed Crimea. The US and European response to that was weak and sent the message to Putin that he could escalate and the response would not be anything he couldn’t handle.

By doing what? Specifically?

And how do you suppose Trump repeating Russian propaganda and the GOP falling in line may have negatively impacted things over the past 4 years?

I never said Trump didn’t negatively impact things, but if you’ve been following Russia since 2014, you can see that the cycle of Putin becoming more aggressive globally really started with the Crimea annexation and the lackluster Western response.

Specifically, we should have placed US/NATO forces on high alert and placed US aircraft carriers in the Bosporus strait. European leaders should have called Putin and told him that if he does not withdraw all Russian presence from Crimea (outside of Black Sea fleet access, which we could negotiate), we will not remove the carriers. Blocking him into the Black Sea would have been disastrous for him and I believe there’s a chance he would have backed down at that point.

If i remember correctly, Putin and Erdogan were buddy buddy at the time. NATO was unfortunately not unified then.

True. However, the US could have unilaterally placed aircraft carriers, if not in the Bosphorus Strait (if Turkey wouldn’t have allowed it), in international waters as close as we could get to it.

That would have been a bad move. Our (NATO and EU, Japan, et al) unity has been our strength. A go it alone strategy would have demonstrated weakness.

Well, the alternative was essentially no action, which—as we’ve seen—has led to Putin feeling empowered to escalate for the past 8 years around the world, culminating in a brazen invasion of Ukraine.

...which has led to the complete destruction of the Russian economy, humiliation of the Russian military, and the reunified strength of NATO.

And the destruction of Ukraine, which continues.

And it's unstoppable rebirth. They did not have Zelensky then. They weren't fully unified. Now they are.

I am concerned that it will not be enough. Russia is not getting the military victory they wanted, but it’s clear they will stop at nothing to subjugate Ukraine.

Yes, it sucks. But 20/20 hindsight is always difficult. Biden has played the hand he was dealt as good as can be and it's all the more remarkable considering where we were as an alliance and a domestic polity the past two decades.

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Anonymous wrote:IMO we need elder statesmen to be involved in some type of diplomatic resolution (and maybe they are, behind the scenes) Obama, Clinton, Bush, even Jimmy Carter. We need seasoned experienced leaders to get involved and behind this.

You are joking.
The same "seasoned experienced leaders" who have got us where we are?

I agree this administration has failed in its efforts. And, it makes me angry.
They didn't enact sanctions soon enough.
They didn't send lethal arms to Ukraine for their defense soon enough, even though they had weeks if not months to do this.
They are still buying oil from Russia.
These are the same people who planned the withdrawal from Afghanistan, so I was not optimistic.

But, most of the people you listed are not any more capable of dealing with Russia. Remember Hillary's "reset" with Russia? Remember what happened to Crimea under Obama?
And, Jimmy Carter? Probably the worst in terms of decision making when it comes to foreign policy?
No thanks.

Most of the things you suggest would have rapidly and needlessly escalated the situation. Also would have made it impossible for US to rally support from around the world and would have antagonized China.

We can't keep overstretching ourselves in conflicts around the world. The painful reality is that our leadership has to make very tough choices. I think Biden and team have handled this very well thus far.

BS. The situation escalated on Putin's timeline because we didn't act.
You are believing the narrative this administration is spinning because they have been utter failures.

The US was warning the world that Putin was going to invade, and no one believed them. Plenty of people on this site didn't believe it. How much could the US have done at that point?

Once Putin made the decision to invade, there was nothing the US could have done. Sending in troops to Ukraine would have led to Russians shooting at US soldiers, and vice versa. Does anyone really want the countries that hold the world’s two largest nuclear arsenals shooting at each other?

Honestly, we should have been more aggressive with Putin after he annexed Crimea. The US and European response to that was weak and sent the message to Putin that he could escalate and the response would not be anything he couldn’t handle.

By doing what? Specifically?

And how do you suppose Trump repeating Russian propaganda and the GOP falling in line may have negatively impacted things over the past 4 years?

I never said Trump didn’t negatively impact things, but if you’ve been following Russia since 2014, you can see that the cycle of Putin becoming more aggressive globally really started with the Crimea annexation and the lackluster Western response.

Specifically, we should have placed US/NATO forces on high alert and placed US aircraft carriers in the Bosporus strait. European leaders should have called Putin and told him that if he does not withdraw all Russian presence from Crimea (outside of Black Sea fleet access, which we could negotiate), we will not remove the carriers. Blocking him into the Black Sea would have been disastrous for him and I believe there’s a chance he would have backed down at that point.

If i remember correctly, Putin and Erdogan were buddy buddy at the time. NATO was unfortunately not unified then.

True. However, the US could have unilaterally placed aircraft carriers, if not in the Bosphorus Strait (if Turkey wouldn’t have allowed it), in international waters as close as we could get to it.

That would have been a bad move. Our (NATO and EU, Japan, et al) unity has been our strength. A go it alone strategy would have demonstrated weakness.

Well, the alternative was essentially no action, which—as we’ve seen—has led to Putin feeling empowered to escalate for the past 8 years around the world, culminating in a brazen invasion of Ukraine.

...which has led to the complete destruction of the Russian economy, humiliation of the Russian military, and the reunified strength of NATO.

And the destruction of Ukraine, which continues.

And it's unstoppable rebirth. They did not have Zelensky then. They weren't fully unified. Now they are.

I am concerned that it will not be enough. Russia is not getting the military victory they wanted, but it’s clear they will stop at nothing to subjugate Ukraine.

Yes, it sucks. But 20/20 hindsight is always difficult. Biden has played the hand he was dealt as good as can be and it's all the more remarkable considering where we were as an alliance and a domestic polity the past two decades.

In 2014, there were many calling for a stronger western response. The will was not there. But we should not pretend as though no one thought it could embolden Putin. His desires have been known for a long time.

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Anonymous wrote:Kamala Harris should host a summit with Putin and Zelensky.

Foreign policy is about relationships. Sometimes it takes a woman.

She has shown herself to be a complete lightweight. I think you must be a weird troll

You have to be a troll to call for our VP to take a role in the administration?!? Wtf people!!!

To host a summit between Putin and Zelensky? Surely, you jest......

This person?