Helping kids cope with narcissistic parent

[Anonymous]

Does anyone have any resources or advice? ExDH was diagnosed as narcissistic. We are in the process of divorce. He seems to have gotten worse - he has a new girlfriend who is also very narcissistic.

He pushed for a 50-50 schedule and seems to be even worse about using the kids (young elementary) to meet his needs. I've seen several books for adults on overcoming the effects of narcissistic parents, but would obviously like to do what I can to help the kids now. He will not consent to therapy for them, "there is nothing wrong with me or with them" despite the kids having been in therapy previously.

Oldest DS said something about feeling like "his life is being erased" and I can relate after living with DH. He said "Dad doesn't want me to have any other friends" and I've seen DH encourage him to not interact with kids even at birthday parties, but rather to focus on him. He doesn't want the kids to bring anything to his house, he replaced everything, he doesn't want any reminders of their "other time" there. He and gf are very socially isolated, the kids basically watch tv the whole time they are there. If they bring up things that they are interested in, DH either doesn't reply or shifts the focus back to himself. He seems to only be interested in them looking good, doing well in school and in sports, but he invests no time in helping them achieve those things.

I have given up any hope of changing him or of him showing empathy or an understanding of the kids' needs. We are going through a custody eval and hopefully I will end up with more time but DH is very manipulative so it is a crapshoot.

I am trying to validate them, have structure, encourage their interests, spend time with other healthy families. Any other thoughts?

[Anonymous]

OP here - I don't see this just as a divorced family issue, but as a parenting issue, and would welcome input from other parents who have a narcissistic spouse or who may have grown up with a narcissistic parent themselves. If you were in this situation as a child, what helped or what do you wish someone had done for you?

For example, I try to deemphasize achievement and encourage them to work hard and to do their best rather than focus on the grade. ExDH likes to brag about them but not have a real emotional connection, does not help them with homework or projects, help them practice sports, etc.

[Anonymous]

My niece has. Been in therapy since she was 7 to cope with a narcissistic parent. Very helpful, IMO, because she gets advice on how to handle specific parent behaviors.

[Anonymous]

my MIL has an undiagnosed narcissistic personality disorder. DH and his siblings suffered a lot and his older sister (only daughter) still suffers - and she is almost 50yo!!!. my late FIL did nothing to mitigate MIL's narcissistic behavior and there was a quite a bit of resentment against FIL by the kids.

does DH have to consent to therapy? i see that as one of the only ways to protect your kids from the damage that can be done. that, and you probably have to say some not nice things about DH. not ideal, but your kids' emotional welfare is the most important.

[Anonymous]

My father has been diagnosed with NPD. Having positive role models outside of the immediate family, whether they are part of a church, soccer team, club, would have helped me. Being a part of a larger community, in my case a smaller private school, allowed me to develop a sense of self. In my case, my father's emotional state became volatile as I became a teenager. A teenager's natural need to separate and challenge can infuriate someone who is narcissistic.

[Anonymous]

You can also repost or search the Parenting-Special Concerns section of DCUM. I have read similar posts to yours there as that section has more divorce or separation topics.

My advice being a divorced mom myself of two youngens is to focus on what you can control and that is your own behavior. Unless you can get the courts to order therapy, if your X wont consent, you can find the battle emotionally and financially draining. You will need to be the stable parent who your kids can talk to. It sucks when the other parent is not on board with the kid's needs. You may need to consider speaking to your pediatrican for advice and have he/she speak to the kids without you present or have your kids speak to the school counselor, who is required to document and can provide an opinion if you needed to go to court.

What would your X do if you did take the kids to therapy without his consent? My X and I agree most of the time but if he didnt agree to something i felt was in my kid's bestvinterest,I'd go ahead anyway and deal with his BS afterwards .

[Anonymous]

My X is very egocentric, maybe not to the same extreme as your X, but not great for our child.

When I see situations unfold that I suspect are becoming stressful for our child, I try to model for him with stuffed animals retorts and ways the animals can resolve the situation. For instance, my X constantly wanted our child to "pick" whose house/car/toys are better. I'd have one stuffed animal saying "my house is so cool, i have a fish" and another stuffed animal saying "my house has a dog and fish are stupid. dogs are furry. they are much cooler." and they'd be trying to persuade their friend "to come see the fish" or "come pet the dog". and i'd have the friend say "i don't have to pick. i can see you both, just not at the same time" or "i like both of you".

I feel genuinely terrible that a child is being put into these situations, but all you can do it keep it light and try to give your child skills for coping.

[Anonymous]

I'm not convinced DH needs to consent to therapy either but if so:
Bring the lack of consent to therapy to the table and force resolution as part of divorce and custody arrangements. Refuse to sign if he won't budge.

[Anonymous]

My suggestion is that you encourage exDH and the kids to push him to DROP THEM OFF at birthday parties.

[Anonymous]

OP here, thanks for the advice folks. Please keep it coming.

It's painful to see the kids put in these situations, love the stuffed animal idea.

Working on therapy issue but can't force it now or it might boomerang according to the lawyer.

It took me a long time to even get the dynamics, ex is very passive aggressive and plays the victim. I finally got that everything is always about him, and he seems to be getting worse. I can only imagine the teen years and the rage that might be triggered.

Trying to make sure that the kids talk about their feelings and have other community and role models. If they have an interest I try to find ways to help them pursue it and just try to tune into them as individuals.

[Anonymous]

I have a narcissistic father, and it was hell growing up. I had a lot of anger toward my mother for not leaving him, so you've already done something major to validate their feelings that he's crazy and crazy-making.

When they get older, help them find the literature about narcissism, but also be prepared for his anger if he discovers they're reading it.

As they get older, and stop being willing to be isolated when they're with him, he may lose interest in them anyway.

[Anonymous]

I can only hope, PP. Ex's girlfriend seems to really scapegoat one of the children and ex does nothing to stop it, there is no attempt to form a bond, just praise for one and constant criticism of the other (who is very young and who is very upset by it). Ex is disengaged and just pushes them to perform, but only in the ways he is interested in. Both lie frequently and the kids find that very confusing. They say that they never know what to believe or what will happen next. Her kids are treated very differently by both their mom and exDH, that is also painful to them.

If anyone has particular local therapists or types of therapists to recommend, I would welcome that. Hope that will come in the next few months despite ex's attempts to delay the legal process.

Thanks for the info on your feelings about your mom. I hate not being able to protect them more but having that be 100% of our lives was a nightmare too. He put up a very good facade and when he was done it was like he became a different person. One child noted that he lied a lot when only about 3, you can't live with people you can't trust.

[Anonymous]

Your validation of their feelings -- of their actual selves -- will go a long, long way here. Having one parent who truly "sees" them and can reflect their real selves back to them counts for so much. I've been there, and it makes all the difference.

If I were in your shoes, that's where I'd focus. Teach and encourage them to put into words how they feel -- about everything, including (but not just) their father. Make it safe for them to express a full range of emotions, including anger, sadness, disappointment, hurt, anxiety, frustration, confusion, and even fear. It's tough for parents to hear these things sometimes, but it's expecially important to allow/encourage it here because the narcissistic parent absolutely won't. As your kids get older, encourage them to keep a journal to write about their thoughts and feelings, too. It's another way for them to express themselves, even if no one else reads it but them.

Similarly, do what ever you can along the way to help the kids feel comfortable expressing disagreement with their father or questioning or criticizing his choices and behavior. They may not feel "safe" expressing it to him (understandable!), but if they can express it to you (and/or to a therapist or in a journal), they will learn that their feelings are indeed appropriate and valid. Again, very supportive stuff.

It may sound heavy, but it really doesn't have to be. There are so many ways to give small light touches of validation to show them that they've been heard. All you need to do is acknowledge and reflect it back to them as they express it. Mirror, mirror, mirror.

And just keep prompting them to notice and describe their own their own feelings/preferences/values/interests/strengths/skills/character/personality as they grow. This is great for all kids, and especially so for kids with a narcissistic parent. The more aware of themselves they become, the less likely they are to be affected because they will see themselves as separate and distinct from him (as opposed to an extention of him, which is the dynamic he tries to create.)

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Is that true, you can't get a kid therapy without the other parent's consent? That would be horrible? Can you not take them to the doctor for a sore throat without the other parent's consent either?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your validation of their feelings -- of their actual selves -- will go a long, long way here. Having one parent who truly "sees" them and can reflect their real selves back to them counts for so much. I've been there, and it makes all the difference.

If I were in your shoes, that's where I'd focus. Teach and encourage them to put into words how they feel -- about everything, including (but not just) their father. Make it safe for them to express a full range of emotions, including anger, sadness, disappointment, hurt, anxiety, frustration, confusion, and even fear. It's tough for parents to hear these things sometimes, but it's expecially important to allow/encourage it here because the narcissistic parent absolutely won't. As your kids get older, encourage them to keep a journal to write about their thoughts and feelings, too. It's another way for them to express themselves, even if no one else reads it but them.

Similarly, do what ever you can along the way to help the kids feel comfortable expressing disagreement with their father or questioning or criticizing his choices and behavior. They may not feel "safe" expressing it to him (understandable!), but if they can express it to you (and/or to a therapist or in a journal), they will learn that their feelings are indeed appropriate and valid. Again, very supportive stuff.

It may sound heavy, but it really doesn't have to be. There are so many ways to give small light touches of validation to show them that they've been heard. All you need to do is acknowledge and reflect it back to them as they express it. Mirror, mirror, mirror.

And just keep prompting them to notice and describe their own their own feelings/preferences/values/interests/strengths/skills/character/personality as they grow. This is great for all kids, and especially so for kids with a narcissistic parent. The more aware of themselves they become, the less likely they are to be affected because they will see themselves as separate and distinct from him (as opposed to an extention of him, which is the dynamic he tries to create.)

Good luck!

This is super helpful, thanks so much. I have been trying to do this but will do it more. You've really validated me, thanks. I do see the kids separating more, which is leading to more conflict with their dad but it also seems really resilient.

Anyone have thougths on helping them with the issue of him allowing people to be verbally abusive to them. I encouraged them to tell him how it makes them feel but he just stonewalls. The kids seem to have a lot of anger. Right now they know it's not ok for people to treat them like that but I worry that they will become accustomed to it.