Plane crash DCA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone else’s mind still blown that DC airspace is used for training? I guess I thought all those military helicopters were actually doing legitimate military work, not training. I get that training is a necessity but still.

Tell me you have no experience with the military without telling me…

This thread really illuminates how many people in our society do not understand basic information about the military because they have never served. Many people today have not only never served, they have no family or friends who have ever served. Thus, they have no context for understanding events that involve the military.

I understand that 70 people are dead because the military inexplicably decided to do training in a civilian area. Being that I am a civilian over whose neighborhood they train, I think I have every right to ask questions.

I have no military experience, but I am an American and know that a few of our most critical military targets are in DC. I'm quite happy to know that the AF and Army regularly run training exercises in the airspace above DC.

They run them to learn how to evacuate high govt officials- not protect you

Whether this was training for evacuating targets or protecting civilians, it was a failure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m blaming the military and not the specific BH pilots. There was an incident less than 24 hours before the crash where a commercial airline had to abort a landing due to helicopter traffic below them. Why did that incident not trigger a moratorium on helicopter training exercises until the incident was reviewed for safety issues? How are incidents like this reported?

Yep that’s pretty serious …and then right at it the next day-/boom

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone else’s mind still blown that DC airspace is used for training? I guess I thought all those military helicopters were actually doing legitimate military work, not training. I get that training is a necessity but still.

Tell me you have no experience with the military without telling me…

This thread really illuminates how many people in our society do not understand basic information about the military because they have never served. Many people today have not only never served, they have no family or friends who have ever served. Thus, they have no context for understanding events that involve the military.

I understand that 70 people are dead because the military inexplicably decided to do training in a civilian area. Being that I am a civilian over whose neighborhood they train, I think I have every right to ask questions.

I have no military experience, but I am an American and know that a few of our most critical military targets are in DC. I'm quite happy to know that the AF and Army regularly run training exercises in the airspace above DC.

They run them to learn how to evacuate high govt officials- not protect you

And the hapless, unsuspecting victims on the plane were just SOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m blaming the military and not the specific BH pilots. There was an incident less than 24 hours before the crash where a commercial airline had to abort a landing due to helicopter traffic below them. Why did that incident not trigger a moratorium on helicopter training exercises until the incident was reviewed for safety issues? How are incidents like this reported?

Yep that’s pretty serious …and then right at it the next day-/boom

It’s because there were A LOT of near misses before this one.

Not sure if this has been linked already, but NYT warned this would happen: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/02/business/air-traffic-controllers-safety.html?unlocked_article_code=1.t04.3N4T.eaYntbIYxAO_&smid=url-share (Gift link)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's a fast track for ROTC/Guard duty to make Capt at 4 yrs. And with relatively few hours.

She was active duty. I made captain at 3.5 yrs. 4 yrs is about average for active duty unless things have changed

At your level of competence at that point, would you have been put in charge of something comparable?

DP
Active duty goes through the ranks faster.
Young captains fly in war all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Latest NTSB briefing said data from CRJ showed altitude of 325 ft (+/- 25 ft) at impact. They don't have data from BH yet but tower data is preliminarily showing BH altitude at 200 ft. But tower data still needs to be cleaned up and could be showing a few seconds delay. My takeaway is that the CRJ data is most accurate and shows impact at 300-350 ft and tower data is suggesting BH was at 200 ft seconds before impact but obviously climbed to 300-350 at time of impact.

In a BH that’s a foot pedal that causes the nose/craft to go up or down, correct? You want a state of buoyancy if not changing altitude.

Speed and left/right are hand controls.?.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Her qualifications look amazing. God bless her and her family.

What are they? High pressure piloting black hawks?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sad state that we are focusing on this woman instead of the 2 men who were on the same BH.

She was the Pilot in Command of the Blackhawk when it quickly veered, went up in altitude, and hit the plane. That’s why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t understand the ntsb altitude data. How did the planes crash if they were at different altitudes?

Jet was descending. Do we have the ATC transcript with the chopper?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's a fast track for ROTC/Guard duty to make Capt at 4 yrs. And with relatively few hours.

She was active duty. I made captain at 3.5 yrs. 4 yrs is about average for active duty unless things have changed

At your level of competence at that point, would you have been put in charge of something comparable?

I wasn’t in aviation, but I did work closely with pilots. Of the missions expected of Black Hawk pilots, this should have been a very easy flight. I don’t know about the “check in” thing or if she was purposely given a challenging/dangerous script she had to follow to see if she could recover or something. But if the training was simply to fly the night route safely- it should have been something very routine

Agree, follow east bank of river at the required max altitude at each juncture. See them doing that all the time, and at 150’ during the day 2 at a time formation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's a fast track for ROTC/Guard duty to make Capt at 4 yrs. And with relatively few hours.

She was active duty. I made captain at 3.5 yrs. 4 yrs is about average for active duty unless things have changed

At your level of competence at that point, would you have been put in charge of something comparable?

DP
Active duty goes through the ranks faster.
Young captains fly in war all the time.

The problem seems to be communication ATC(and within the helicopter) and the altitude of the helicopter. The senior pilot was talking to the ATC. I don’t think he repeats back the plane is landing on runway 33. If he did not acknowledge runway 33 he may not have associated it as important or unusual. Landing on 33 means they would have had to look left(plane moving east to west) to pickup the incoming plane. If you look south(down river) you would see planes lining up to land for the main runway. You would identify the plane down river as the income plane and not look left. Runway 33 is not used much.

I could see the senior pilot based on his experience thinking all the landing planes follow the river and land on the main runway running north to south. If you fly the corridor as a helicopter pilot that is what you would normally see. Chances are you could go your whole tour and never see a plane land on 33. It will be interesting to see if he passed that information to the qualifying pilot. Who knows if a military helicopter pilots knows runaway 33 at national. They do not land jets there.

The altitude thing is puzzling. You can drift up but the senior pilot should have corrected that. For a pilot with 1000 hours who has flown the corridor 200 ft by national is a hard rule. 350’ is almost double the altitude ceiling. It would be very noticeable by any qualified pilot.

By the way 150-200 hours a year is a good amount for active duty not in a war.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone know if a BH can ascend a hundred feet or so in a few seconds? I am wondering if she maybe had a medical emergency and pressed on the up pedal and other pilot could not correct in time. Is that possible?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Geez. Her plan was ultimately to go to med school (high MCAT scores) but she wanted to serve first. Respect. I’m sorry for everyone involved in this, what a tragedy.

It not that she "wanted" to serve, she was obligated to serve after ROTC program that paid for her undergrad education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Latest NTSB briefing said data from CRJ showed altitude of 325 ft (+/- 25 ft) at impact. They don't have data from BH yet but tower data is preliminarily showing BH altitude at 200 ft. But tower data still needs to be cleaned up and could be showing a few seconds delay. My takeaway is that the CRJ data is most accurate and shows impact at 300-350 ft and tower data is suggesting BH was at 200 ft seconds before impact but obviously climbed to 300-350 at time of impact.

Briefing also mentioned that CRJ crew had a verbal reaction a second before impact and the plane started to pitch up, presumably to try to maneuver away. So the pilots saw it coming at the last second.

I hate they saw it coming..
That poor NTSB representative needs a break. I can’t imagine dealing with this and being asked the same damn question repeatedly, not to mention the one about how his meeting with the families went. The man was in tears.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She was the DEI that was the focus immediately afterwards?

According to some Google fu, it seems that her parents were Republicans and may have supported Trump. I wonder how they feel about his DEI comments.

I am truly sorry for their loss. She seemed like an accomplished, smart, very capable woman, person, and citizen.

Agree. So sorry for all involved, but the speculation of this pilot has been terrible.RIP.