PSA: Jews are a racial group

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
What if you thought virtually everything about you was Jewish, but then you find out there's nothing in your DNA that's Jewish?

I think this happens with adopted children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:n

Anonymous wrote:It does a disservice to the religion to have people who worship Jesus and take Holy Communion to claim they are Jewish.

I agree for many reasons, and they of course are two completely different religions that should not be mixed. While I was raised Christian, I don't belong to a church or attend services. Also, I have never worshiped in a synagogue or plan to. I don't claim Judaism as my religion or culture (to keep it simple, I just state my countries of origin). Only when I am asked about my mother's unique background do I explain further.

I would never enter a synagogue and claim to be Jewish or misrepresent myself to others. I'm aware there is more to Judaism than the genetic component. I just enjoy learning about the rabbis and Jewish artist in my mother's family line. I collect books, etc. on the artist's paintings. This is the extent of my Jewishness and that's enough for me.

The artist is not just Jewish, his paintings, etc. are depictions of Jewish life (if that matters).

Sigh.

Judaism is a religion, ethnicity, and genetic background. You can be Jewish if you have the genetic background but not the religion. It makes you Jewish by ancestry. I assume you’re unfamiliar with the idea of being a secular Jew. This is much more than a religion.

I'm familiar with the meaning of secular Jews. I've had lots of exposure to Jewish culture through friends, etc. I'm just being careful not to offend anyone with my words and trying to clarify what other posters misunderstood. I'm the one who posted the links to the four articles in the previous posts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remember when Julianna Marguiles was on a Find Your Roots episode on PBS?
They did the DNA test on her and the result was 99.9% Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry. She excitedly said, "super Jew!"

That's a pretty funny response, TBH.

- Ashkenazi Jew

It was! It's very nice that she's proud of her heritage.

In case any of you wonders, there's no person alive whose DNA says he/ she is 99.9% African American or Hispanic.

So, yes, that 99.9% would be quite remarkable.

Mine said the same thing (99.9 -- Ashkenazi Jewish). My husband had 1% or 2% Irish in addition to his 98% Ashkenazi.

You all need to read up on these genetic testing companies - https://now.tufts.edu/articles/pulling-back-curtain-dna-ancestry-tests
Pulling Back the Curtain on DNA Ancestry Tests

some snippets:

Sheldon Krimsky: We don’t really know, because the companies selling these services—and there are close to 40 of them—don’t share their data, and their methods are not validated by an independent group of scientists and there are not agreed-upon standards of accuracy. People have sent their DNA to several of these companies and found differences in the results—though not necessarily radical differences. So you have to look at the percentages you receive back with skepticism.

Each company offering these services uses its own proprietary database of DNA samples called ancestry informative markers (AIMs) from current populations in Asia, Africa, Europe, and the Americas. From within those databases, they each select for a certain number of alleles—one member of a pair of genes located at a specific position on a specific chromosome—and in these spots, use the genetic variations known as single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) as the basis for evaluating individuals. The markers—SNPs—are chosen because they have different frequencies across different geographical populations.

She has to understand that she’s not matching her DNA to someone from hundreds of years ago. It’s also quite possible for someone who is African American to get ancestry test results that say they’re 75 percent European. That’s because the chosen ancestry-information markers reflect only a small percentage of our DNA, and there’s actually more genetic diversity within the African population than between the African population and a European population. (For more about this, see dialogue one in a publication I co-wrote, “Using Dialogues to Explore Genetics, Ancestry, and Race” [PDF].)

And this - which is what I pointed out in an earlier post:
https://www.familytreemagazine.com/premium/dna-fact-or-science-fiction/
DNA Fact or Science Fiction? 6 Myths Explained

The importance of movement

If your ancestors and their offspring had stayed in one geographic region and never allowed outsiders to enter, it would be relatively easy to distinguish their DNA (and yours) from the DNA of people living in other regions. Over time, all of the inhabitants of your region would come to share specific genetic mutations (usually harmless changes in DNA), which would identify them as a distinct population, the same way a surname identifies members of a family.

But our ancestors didn’t stay in one place. For thousands of years, humans have moved about, leaving their genetic imprints wherever they procreate and making it increasingly difficult for geneticists to distinguish one region’s population from another’s.

[Anonymous]

So if I tell you I'm Jewish, it means nothing until we get into a huge debate about what kind of Jew I am, or am not.

Sounds ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So if I tell you I'm Jewish, it means nothing until we get into a huge debate about what kind of Jew I am, or am not.

Sounds ridiculous.

Huh? No. The point is you can be Jewish from an ancestral standpoint (and that goes way beyond 23 and me; it’s confirmed by scientific studies) even if you don’t practice. People seem to question this is possible, which I find amazing. It’s common knowledge among Jews.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if I tell you I'm Jewish, it means nothing until we get into a huge debate about what kind of Jew I am, or am not.

Sounds ridiculous.

Huh? No. The point is you can be Jewish from an ancestral standpoint (and that goes way beyond 23 and me; it’s confirmed by scientific studies) even if you don’t practice. People seem to question this is possible, which I find amazing. It’s common knowledge among Jews.

My Jewish friend disagrees, so it depends which Jewish person you ask.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So if I tell you I'm Jewish, it means nothing until we get into a huge debate about what kind of Jew I am, or am not.

Sounds ridiculous.

I am not Jewish, although the DNA does say I'm 4% . . .

I also have two good Jewish friends - one who's secular and "cultural" and the other who's fairly conservative. My conservative pal will say that there are levels of acceptance among Jewish folks as to who's actually really Jewish.

So yes, PP, you are being judged on level of religiosity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if I tell you I'm Jewish, it means nothing until we get into a huge debate about what kind of Jew I am, or am not.

Sounds ridiculous.

Huh? No. The point is you can be Jewish from an ancestral standpoint (and that goes way beyond 23 and me; it’s confirmed by scientific studies) even if you don’t practice. People seem to question this is possible, which I find amazing. It’s common knowledge among Jews.

My Jewish friend disagrees, so it depends which Jewish person you ask.

So your Jewish friend denies the existence of the Ashkenazi Jewish genetic group?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if I tell you I'm Jewish, it means nothing until we get into a huge debate about what kind of Jew I am, or am not.

Sounds ridiculous.

I am not Jewish, although the DNA does say I'm 4% . . .

I also have two good Jewish friends - one who's secular and "cultural" and the other who's fairly conservative. My conservative pal will say that there are levels of acceptance among Jewish folks as to who's actually really Jewish.

So yes, PP, you are being judged on level of religiosity.

It’s not levels of religiosity, it’s how Jewish you are. It isn’t everyone, but for some people if you’re not Ashkenazi or Sephardic by background (which represents about 90% of Jews) you’re not really Jewish. It isn’t fair but the perception is definitely prevalent. At my synagogue, if someone converts from Christianity, we accept them but think it’s a little weird. Again, not fair, but I’m just being honest here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DH was raised Christian (his Jewish grandparents converted) but is 49% Ashkenazi. The grandma who converted escaped the Holocaust and the rest of her family remained Jewish. It’s a big part of his family's identity and history. So for him it would be yes to the race part but no to the religion part.

What about his 1. ethnicity and 2. nationality?
You left those out.

1. Mishmash. Mostly Polish I think? His mom (100% Ashkenazi but raised Christian) married a white guy.

2. American.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DH was raised Christian (his Jewish grandparents converted) but is 49% Ashkenazi. The grandma who converted escaped the Holocaust and the rest of her family remained Jewish. It’s a big part of his family's identity and history. So for him it would be yes to the race part but no to the religion part.

What about his 1. ethnicity and 2. nationality?
You left those out.

1. Mishmash. Mostly Polish I think? His mom (100% Ashkenazi but raised Christian) married a white guy.

2. American.

About what percentage of American Jews are part Polish?
Anyone have an idea?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remember when Julianna Marguiles was on a Find Your Roots episode on PBS?
They did the DNA test on her and the result was 99.9% Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry. She excitedly said, "super Jew!"

That's a pretty funny response, TBH.

- Ashkenazi Jew

It was! It's very nice that she's proud of her heritage.

In case any of you wonders, there's no person alive whose DNA says he/ she is 99.9% African American or Hispanic.

So, yes, that 99.9% would be quite remarkable.

Mine said the same thing (99.9 -- Ashkenazi Jewish). My husband had 1% or 2% Irish in addition to his 98% Ashkenazi.

You all need to read up on these genetic testing companies - https://now.tufts.edu/articles/pulling-back-curtain-dna-ancestry-tests
Pulling Back the Curtain on DNA Ancestry Tests

some snippets:

Sheldon Krimsky: We don’t really know, because the companies selling these services—and there are close to 40 of them—don’t share their data, and their methods are not validated by an independent group of scientists and there are not agreed-upon standards of accuracy. People have sent their DNA to several of these companies and found differences in the results—though not necessarily radical differences. So you have to look at the percentages you receive back with skepticism.

Each company offering these services uses its own proprietary database of DNA samples called ancestry informative markers (AIMs) from current populations in Asia, Africa, Europe, and the Americas. From within those databases, they each select for a certain number of alleles—one member of a pair of genes located at a specific position on a specific chromosome—and in these spots, use the genetic variations known as single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) as the basis for evaluating individuals. The markers—SNPs—are chosen because they have different frequencies across different geographical populations.

She has to understand that she’s not matching her DNA to someone from hundreds of years ago. It’s also quite possible for someone who is African American to get ancestry test results that say they’re 75 percent European. That’s because the chosen ancestry-information markers reflect only a small percentage of our DNA, and there’s actually more genetic diversity within the African population than between the African population and a European population. (For more about this, see dialogue one in a publication I co-wrote, “Using Dialogues to Explore Genetics, Ancestry, and Race” [PDF].)

And this - which is what I pointed out in an earlier post:
https://www.familytreemagazine.com/premium/dna-fact-or-science-fiction/
DNA Fact or Science Fiction? 6 Myths Explained

The importance of movement

If your ancestors and their offspring had stayed in one geographic region and never allowed outsiders to enter, it would be relatively easy to distinguish their DNA (and yours) from the DNA of people living in other regions. Over time, all of the inhabitants of your region would come to share specific genetic mutations (usually harmless changes in DNA), which would identify them as a distinct population, the same way a surname identifies members of a family.

But our ancestors didn’t stay in one place. For thousands of years, humans have moved about, leaving their genetic imprints wherever they procreate and making it increasingly difficult for geneticists to distinguish one region’s population from another’s.

I'm sure there are flaws with the DNA testing. I didn't need one to determine my ancestry. Adoptees and others who have no other knowledge or proof of their ancestral background should be cautious, but that's not me. It cannot be completely made up as Its relied upon in many ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if I tell you I'm Jewish, it means nothing until we get into a huge debate about what kind of Jew I am, or am not.

Sounds ridiculous.

I am not Jewish, although the DNA does say I'm 4% . . .

I also have two good Jewish friends - one who's secular and "cultural" and the other who's fairly conservative. My conservative pal will say that there are levels of acceptance among Jewish folks as to who's actually really Jewish.

So yes, PP, you are being judged on level of religiosity.

It’s not levels of religiosity, it’s how Jewish you are. It isn’t everyone, but for some people if you’re not Ashkenazi or Sephardic by background (which represents about 90% of Jews) you’re not really Jewish. It isn’t fair but the perception is definitely prevalent. At my synagogue, if someone converts from Christianity, we accept them but think it’s a little weird. Again, not fair, but I’m just being honest here.

Agree. This is why I never advertise any jewish ancestry. I w as raised christian and would not and don't need to convert to Judaism or even practice Christianity. It's just a fact and part of who I am and that's all there is to it. It really isn't part of my life. I had a neighbor who is christian and no jewish ancestry or upbringing and converted to judaism. not only is it weird in itself, she was off the charts weird herself. She had been in a mental institution and was very disturbed in many ways. She was obsessed with Judaism and the culture. My friends who are jewish said they know to stay clear of these types when they come to their synogogue. I have kept all ancestry and religion out of all of my friendships and it works. We don't need to prove any background to each other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if I tell you I'm Jewish, it means nothing until we get into a huge debate about what kind of Jew I am, or am not.

Sounds ridiculous.

I am not Jewish, although the DNA does say I'm 4% . . .

I also have two good Jewish friends - one who's secular and "cultural" and the other who's fairly conservative. My conservative pal will say that there are levels of acceptance among Jewish folks as to who's actually really Jewish.

So yes, PP, you are being judged on level of religiosity.

It’s not levels of religiosity, it’s how Jewish you are. It isn’t everyone, but for some people if you’re not Ashkenazi or Sephardic by background (which represents about 90% of Jews) you’re not really Jewish. It isn’t fair but the perception is definitely prevalent. At my synagogue, if someone converts from Christianity, we accept them but think it’s a little weird. Again, not fair, but I’m just being honest here.

Agree. This is why I never advertise any jewish ancestry. I w as raised christian and would not and don't need to convert to Judaism or even practice Christianity. It's just a fact and part of who I am and that's all there is to it. It really isn't part of my life. I had a neighbor who is christian and no jewish ancestry or upbringing and converted to judaism. not only is it weird in itself, she was off the charts weird herself. She had been in a mental institution and was very disturbed in many ways. She was obsessed with Judaism and the culture. My friends who are jewish said they know to stay clear of these types when they come to their synogogue. I have kept all ancestry and religion out of all of my friendships and it works. We don't need to prove any background to each other.

Are you saying that converting to Judaism is "weird in itself"? One of my closest friends converted, and she did so because she preferred Jewish teachings, beliefs, and traditions. Why is that weird?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if I tell you I'm Jewish, it means nothing until we get into a huge debate about what kind of Jew I am, or am not.

Sounds ridiculous.

I am not Jewish, although the DNA does say I'm 4% . . .

I also have two good Jewish friends - one who's secular and "cultural" and the other who's fairly conservative. My conservative pal will say that there are levels of acceptance among Jewish folks as to who's actually really Jewish.

So yes, PP, you are being judged on level of religiosity.

It’s not levels of religiosity, it’s how Jewish you are. It isn’t everyone, but for some people if you’re not Ashkenazi or Sephardic by background (which represents about 90% of Jews) you’re not really Jewish. It isn’t fair but the perception is definitely prevalent. At my synagogue, if someone converts from Christianity, we accept them but think it’s a little weird. Again, not fair, but I’m just being honest here.

Agree. This is why I never advertise any jewish ancestry. I w as raised christian and would not and don't need to convert to Judaism or even practice Christianity. It's just a fact and part of who I am and that's all there is to it. It really isn't part of my life. I had a neighbor who is christian and no jewish ancestry or upbringing and converted to judaism. not only is it weird in itself, she was off the charts weird herself. She had been in a mental institution and was very disturbed in many ways. She was obsessed with Judaism and the culture. My friends who are jewish said they know to stay clear of these types when they come to their synogogue. I have kept all ancestry and religion out of all of my friendships and it works. We don't need to prove any background to each other.

Are you saying that converting to Judaism is "weird in itself"? One of my closest friends converted, and she did so because she preferred Jewish teachings, beliefs, and traditions. Why is that weird?

Sorry. I am just really upset about other things this neighbor did and after hearing about friends experiences. There also just seems to be a strong cultural component to the practice of Judaism where one would feel left out if they did share that. Sorry that I offended you. I think I better sign off on this topic. I've said enough.