Board of Veterans Appeals (Attorney Advisor)

[Anonymous]

As a small portion of my job, I used to handle appeals of CAVC decisions to the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit. The area of law (Veterans benefits) is a complicated niche area. I didn't find it legally interesting, for the most part (although some of the facts were relatively interesting). I don't think that a position as a writing attorney BVA would be marketable.

[Anonymous]

You’re correct, BVA experience is generally not marketable. Most employers in the private and federal sectors don’t care about veterans law. But, BVA experience is very helpful for attorneys who want to become a law clerk at the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims (CAVC). Most of the law clerks there at CAVC have BVA experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You’re correct, BVA experience is generally not marketable. Most employers in the private and federal sectors don’t care about veterans law. But, BVA experience is very helpful for attorneys who want to become a law clerk at the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims (CAVC). Most of the law clerks there at CAVC have BVA experience.

I know a lot of GS-12 SSA attorneys who are former BVA attorney. SSA loves to hire BVA attorneys because the work is so similar. In fact, the current Executive Director of SSA’s Appeals Council was a supervisor at BVA. SSA hired her to increase the productivity of decision writer attorneys/paralegal specialists. SSA is a good transfer option for BVA attorneys because with BVA experience, you wont have to start off as a GS-9 attorney; SSA will let you transfer as a GS11 or even give you the maximum grade of GS-12.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re correct, BVA experience is generally not marketable. Most employers in the private and federal sectors don’t care about veterans law. But, BVA experience is very helpful for attorneys who want to become a law clerk at the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims (CAVC). Most of the law clerks there at CAVC have BVA experience.

I know a lot of GS-12 SSA attorneys who are former BVA attorney. SSA loves to hire BVA attorneys because the work is so similar. In fact, the current Executive Director of SSA’s Appeals Council was a supervisor at BVA. SSA hired her to increase the productivity of decision writer attorneys/paralegal specialists. SSA is a good transfer option for BVA attorneys because with BVA experience, you wont have to start off as a GS-9 attorney; SSA will let you transfer as a GS11 or even give you the maximum grade of GS-12.

A GS 12 experienced attorney? That's sad. At my agency you have a clear path to GS 12 with only a hs/undergraduate degree.

[Anonymous]

You’re correct, BVA experience is generally not marketable. Most employers in the private and federal sectors don’t care about veterans law. But, BVA experience is very helpful for attorneys who want to become a law clerk at the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims (CAVC). Most of the law clerks there at CAVC have BVA experience.




I know a lot of GS-12 SSA attorneys who are former BVA attorney. SSA loves to hire BVA attorneys because the work is so similar. In fact, the current Executive Director of SSA’s Appeals Council was a supervisor at BVA. SSA hired her to increase the productivity of decision writer attorneys/paralegal specialists. SSA is a good transfer option for BVA attorneys because with BVA experience, you wont have to start off as a GS-9 attorney; SSA will let you transfer as a GS11 or even give you the maximum grade of GS-12.

But what is the career path at SSA? If you like writing decisions and don't want to move up to a high GS-level, it could be fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re correct, BVA experience is generally not marketable. Most employers in the private and federal sectors don’t care about veterans law. But, BVA experience is very helpful for attorneys who want to become a law clerk at the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims (CAVC). Most of the law clerks there at CAVC have BVA experience.

I know a lot of GS-12 SSA attorneys who are former BVA attorney. SSA loves to hire BVA attorneys because the work is so similar. In fact, the current Executive Director of SSA’s Appeals Council was a supervisor at BVA. SSA hired her to increase the productivity of decision writer attorneys/paralegal specialists. SSA is a good transfer option for BVA attorneys because with BVA experience, you wont have to start off as a GS-9 attorney; SSA will let you transfer as a GS11 or even give you the maximum grade of GS-12.

A GS 12 experienced attorney? That's sad. At my agency you have a clear path to GS 12 with only a hs/undergraduate degree.

The GS-12 attorneys at SSA are supervised by GS-14 paralegals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You’re correct, BVA experience is generally not marketable. Most employers in the private and federal sectors don’t care about veterans law. But, BVA experience is very helpful for attorneys who want to become a law clerk at the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims (CAVC). Most of the law clerks there at CAVC have BVA experience.




I know a lot of GS-12 SSA attorneys who are former BVA attorney. SSA loves to hire BVA attorneys because the work is so similar. In fact, the current Executive Director of SSA’s Appeals Council was a supervisor at BVA. SSA hired her to increase the productivity of decision writer attorneys/paralegal specialists. SSA is a good transfer option for BVA attorneys because with BVA experience, you wont have to start off as a GS-9 attorney; SSA will let you transfer as a GS11 or even give you the maximum grade of GS-12.

But what is the career path at SSA? If you like writing decisions and don't want to move up to a high GS-level, it could be fine.

Most decision writing attorneys at SSA retire as a GS-12. Promotions above GS-12 are possible, but the competition for GS-13 positions is intense and years can pass before a GS-13 vacancy opens up. It’s much easier for a decision writer paralegal to be promoted to GS-13 and GS-14 positions because the union advocates for promotional opportunities for paralegals to address systemic racism at SSA (the attorney decision writers are mostly white while the paralegal decision writers are mostly minorities). At most SSA offices, a GS-14 paralegal supervises the attorney staff and reviews their work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re correct, BVA experience is generally not marketable. Most employers in the private and federal sectors don’t care about veterans law. But, BVA experience is very helpful for attorneys who want to become a law clerk at the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims (CAVC). Most of the law clerks there at CAVC have BVA experience.

I know a lot of GS-12 SSA attorneys who are former BVA attorney. SSA loves to hire BVA attorneys because the work is so similar. In fact, the current Executive Director of SSA’s Appeals Council was a supervisor at BVA. SSA hired her to increase the productivity of decision writer attorneys/paralegal specialists. SSA is a good transfer option for BVA attorneys because with BVA experience, you wont have to start off as a GS-9 attorney; SSA will let you transfer as a GS11 or even give you the maximum grade of GS-12.

A GS 12 experienced attorney? That's sad. At my agency you have a clear path to GS 12 with only a hs/undergraduate degree.

The GS-12 attorneys at SSA are supervised by GS-14 paralegals.

Wow! What valuable lawyering skills that job must impart. I’m sure it opens many doors for people.

[Anonymous]

A few years ago, SSA Headquarters converted a warehouse (think Sam’s Club) to a cube farm for decision writer attorneys/paralegals. The building has countless rows and rows of cubes. A lot of former BVA attorneys work there.

Interestingly, one of the supervisors at the SSA legal warehouse is a former BVA paralegal. She now supervises the SSA attorney staff there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A few years ago, SSA Headquarters converted a warehouse (think Sam’s Club) to a cube farm for decision writer attorneys/paralegals. The building has countless rows and rows of cubes. A lot of former BVA attorneys work there.

Interestingly, one of the supervisors at the SSA legal warehouse is a former BVA paralegal. She now supervises the SSA attorney staff there.

I heard about this. There were apparently big problems with a lack of bathrooms, water fountains, etc.

[Anonymous]

At the warehouse, it’s mainly the SSA attorney decision writer staff who are in cubes. Some paralegal decision writers are also in cubes, but management usually puts the paralegals into private offices in other buildings on campus when space becomes available (almost all the managers and union officers at the warehouse are paralegals). Things might change if an attorney decision writer becomes a supervisor. But, in the meantime, the GS-09 to 12 attorneys are at the mercy of their GS-13 and 14 paralegal superiors.

Still, I would much rather work at the SSA warehouse than at BVA. I don’t necessarily like the open cube farm environment, but the managers at SSA aren’t as mean spirited as BVA managers and judges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You’re correct, BVA experience is generally not marketable. Most employers in the private and federal sectors don’t care about veterans law. But, BVA experience is very helpful for attorneys who want to become a law clerk at the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims (CAVC). Most of the law clerks there at CAVC have BVA experience.




I know a lot of GS-12 SSA attorneys who are former BVA attorney. SSA loves to hire BVA attorneys because the work is so similar. In fact, the current Executive Director of SSA’s Appeals Council was a supervisor at BVA. SSA hired her to increase the productivity of decision writer attorneys/paralegal specialists. SSA is a good transfer option for BVA attorneys because with BVA experience, you wont have to start off as a GS-9 attorney; SSA will let you transfer as a GS11 or even give you the maximum grade of GS-12.

But what is the career path at SSA? If you like writing decisions and don't want to move up to a high GS-level, it could be fine.

Most decision writing attorneys at SSA retire as a GS-12. Promotions above GS-12 are possible, but the competition for GS-13 positions is intense and years can pass before a GS-13 vacancy opens up. It’s much easier for a decision writer paralegal to be promoted to GS-13 and GS-14 positions because the union advocates for promotional opportunities for paralegals to address systemic racism at SSA (the attorney decision writers are mostly white while the paralegal decision writers are mostly minorities). At most SSA offices, a GS-14 paralegal supervises the attorney staff and reviews their work.

This is specific to the decision-writing position. In the DC area, SSA employees are more likely to be working at the Appeals Council level. There is an application process to apply from a GS-12 to a GS-13, but nearly everyone halfway decent gets to a 13 within 2-3 years. Paralegals are not supervising attorneys at the Appeals Council level and in fact, it is more common for attorneys to move into supervisory positions as the agency has not hired non-attorneys since about 2009.

I agree the decision writer position is sort of a dead end, but if you’re in the DC area, there is a somewhat competitive opportunity to move to a GS-14 in addition to a lot of detail opportunities outside of just disability program work.

[Anonymous]

To clarify it’s about 2-3 years between a 12 and a 13.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To clarify it’s about 2-3 years between a 12 and a 13.

I’m not sure where you work, but at the Appeals Council, very few attorneys reach GS-13 within two to three years because: 1) promotions to GS-13 are competitive and being competitive means you have to exceed 100 percent production rate; and 2) even if you exceed 100 percent production rate, promotions are dependent on the budget.

While the Appeals Council recently promoted a number of attorneys to GS-13, that was the first GS-13 vacancy announcement in like five years. The vast majority of GS-12 attorneys who applied for the recent GS-13 vacancy announcement were not promoted. Still, I think the Appeals Council offers more opportunities than the field offices - at the field offices most attorneys retire at the GS-12 level.

But, there are still downsides to working at the Appeals Council.. The vast majority of rank and file attorneys at the Appeals Council are supervised by GS-14 paralegal branch chiefs. Their second level supervisors are GS-15 paralegal division directors. The promotional opportunities for attorney decision writers are extremely limited at SSA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You’re correct, BVA experience is generally not marketable. Most employers in the private and federal sectors don’t care about veterans law. But, BVA experience is very helpful for attorneys who want to become a law clerk at the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims (CAVC). Most of the law clerks there at CAVC have BVA experience.




I know a lot of GS-12 SSA attorneys who are former BVA attorney. SSA loves to hire BVA attorneys because the work is so similar. In fact, the current Executive Director of SSA’s Appeals Council was a supervisor at BVA. SSA hired her to increase the productivity of decision writer attorneys/paralegal specialists. SSA is a good transfer option for BVA attorneys because with BVA experience, you wont have to start off as a GS-9 attorney; SSA will let you transfer as a GS11 or even give you the maximum grade of GS-12.

But what is the career path at SSA? If you like writing decisions and don't want to move up to a high GS-level, it could be fine.

Most decision writing attorneys at SSA retire as a GS-12. Promotions above GS-12 are possible, but the competition for GS-13 positions is intense and years can pass before a GS-13 vacancy opens up. It’s much easier for a decision writer paralegal to be promoted to GS-13 and GS-14 positions because the union advocates for promotional opportunities for paralegals to address systemic racism at SSA (the attorney decision writers are mostly white while the paralegal decision writers are mostly minorities). At most SSA offices, a GS-14 paralegal supervises the attorney staff and reviews their work.

This is specific to the decision-writing position. In the DC area, SSA employees are more likely to be working at the Appeals Council level. There is an application process to apply from a GS-12 to a GS-13, but nearly everyone halfway decent gets to a 13 within 2-3 years. Paralegals are not supervising attorneys at the Appeals Council level and in fact, it is more common for attorneys to move into supervisory positions as the agency has not hired non-attorneys since about 2009.

I agree the decision writer position is sort of a dead end, but if you’re in the DC area, there is a somewhat competitive opportunity to move to a GS-14 in addition to a lot of detail opportunities outside of just disability program work.

I recently left SSA and a paralegal was my boss. My division director was also a paralegal.