Can we stop referring to households making $200 or 300K a year as "middle class"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This has been beaten to death. People in DC who make over $150k believe that that money should buy you certain things. It should buy you a house with an easy commute, good school district, ability to save for retirement and perhaps a vacation.

But it does not. Housing and childcare eat up much of the budget. Middle class can't live with a short commute. They have to live further out. Retirement is suspended by the need to pay for childcare. Vacations are more along ocean city rather than Aruba.

The DC middle class do not have the buying power that the rest of the countries middle class have. So we can argue about absolute dollars with regard to HHI, but middle class is about lifestyle. And $150k for a family of 4, does not buy a middle class lifestyle.

You are omitting so many factors that make DC different from those other cities, and therefore more in demand with accompanying higher prices. We have three large airports within an hour of the district, a large metro system, world class museums and performing arts, a research zoo, three large research universities in the district, and several more colleges, in nearby suburbs, a growing tech business, several major health systems, several national sports teams, and of course hundreds of thousands of unique employment opportunities for white collar workers because DC is the seat of the federal govt. You are not going to get this incredible mix of opportunities in a city of average cost. A middle class life in DC will buy you proximity to these things as a trade off to a larger house or shorter commute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't live in an 850K house, I live in a 600K 2 bedroom cape in south Arlington, on 1/6 of an acre, and commute 3 miles to the Metro because we live in an area that is as far as you can be in Arlington from either Orange or Blue. But our HHI is almost $300K, so apparently we are just one step away from Donald Trump.

No, you are not one step away from Donald Trump. But you are about as far from Donald Trump as you are from the true middle class. You are affluent, but not rich or wealthy. The affluent class is easily above the middle class and has choice of where to live, can fully fund retirement, saving for college, good schools for children (whether buying property in a good school district or private), savings and still have some disposable income (not necessarily a lot) leftover. The middle class has to make compromises in a lot of areas to get those same benefits. I'd say that the the middle class makes about $75-150K, which is about the 25th to 75th percentile of HHI, essentially the middle of the earning curve. The affluent is probably about the 76th percentile to the 99th percentile or about $150-400K. The rich are the 1% which in this area is roughly over 400K.

Well, of course this works if you add another category ("affluent"). But usually people say the categories are poor, working class, middle class, and rich, and pretty much anyone who supports their family with a job is going to put themselves in the "middle class" category.

Uh, upper-middle? Isn't that what half this argument was about- $300k folks preferring to be called middle rather than upper-middle?

The top 5% is in no way middle unless you consider the "middle" to encompass 90% of the population and includes those making $8,000/yr as well as those making $300,000. Yes both of those are so middle class...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has been beaten to death. People in DC who make over $150k believe that that money should buy you certain things. It should buy you a house with an easy commute, good school district, ability to save for retirement and perhaps a vacation.

But it does not. Housing and childcare eat up much of the budget. Middle class can't live with a short commute. They have to live further out. Retirement is suspended by the need to pay for childcare. Vacations are more along ocean city rather than Aruba.

The DC middle class do not have the buying power that the rest of the countries middle class have. So we can argue about absolute dollars with regard to HHI, but middle class is about lifestyle. And $150k for a family of 4, does not buy a middle class lifestyle.

You are omitting so many factors that make DC different from those other cities, and therefore more in demand with accompanying higher prices. We have three large airports within an hour of the district, a large metro system, world class museums and performing arts, a research zoo, three large research universities in the district, and several more colleges, in nearby suburbs, a growing tech business, several major health systems, several national sports teams, and of course hundreds of thousands of unique employment opportunities for white collar workers because DC is the seat of the federal govt. You are not going to get this incredible mix of opportunities in a city of average cost. A middle class life in DC will buy you proximity to these things as a trade off to a larger house or shorter commute.

Correct. But again, these are largely intangibles. So when policymakers say they want to tax you more because you're not middle class, or you don't qualify for college aid, because you're not middle class, they are assuming that you are putting the money into savings or spending on something that you could go without. When actually, you are spending it on housing and associated increased cost of living expenses, and the "benefits" you are getting are intangibles and can't be "cut." So people in higher cost of living areas are disadvantaged, when their incomes are classified as "wealthy" but their standard of living is what would be considered middle class anywhere else, with various intangible amenities associated with the location.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't live in an 850K house, I live in a 600K 2 bedroom cape in south Arlington, on 1/6 of an acre, and commute 3 miles to the Metro because we live in an area that is as far as you can be in Arlington from either Orange or Blue. But our HHI is almost $300K, so apparently we are just one step away from Donald Trump.

No, you are not one step away from Donald Trump. But you are about as far from Donald Trump as you are from the true middle class. You are affluent, but not rich or wealthy. The affluent class is easily above the middle class and has choice of where to live, can fully fund retirement, saving for college, good schools for children (whether buying property in a good school district or private), savings and still have some disposable income (not necessarily a lot) leftover. The middle class has to make compromises in a lot of areas to get those same benefits. I'd say that the the middle class makes about $75-150K, which is about the 25th to 75th percentile of HHI, essentially the middle of the earning curve. The affluent is probably about the 76th percentile to the 99th percentile or about $150-400K. The rich are the 1% which in this area is roughly over 400K.

Well, of course this works if you add another category ("affluent"). But usually people say the categories are poor, working class, middle class, and rich, and pretty much anyone who supports their family with a job is going to put themselves in the "middle class" category.

Uh, upper-middle? Isn't that what half this argument was about- $300k folks preferring to be called middle rather than upper-middle?

The top 5% is in no way middle unless you consider the "middle" to encompass 90% of the population and includes those making $8,000/yr as well as those making $300,000. Yes both of those are so middle class...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't live in an 850K house, I live in a 600K 2 bedroom cape in south Arlington, on 1/6 of an acre, and commute 3 miles to the Metro because we live in an area that is as far as you can be in Arlington from either Orange or Blue. But our HHI is almost $300K, so apparently we are just one step away from Donald Trump.

No, you are not one step away from Donald Trump. But you are about as far from Donald Trump as you are from the true middle class. You are affluent, but not rich or wealthy. The affluent class is easily above the middle class and has choice of where to live, can fully fund retirement, saving for college, good schools for children (whether buying property in a good school district or private), savings and still have some disposable income (not necessarily a lot) leftover. The middle class has to make compromises in a lot of areas to get those same benefits. I'd say that the the middle class makes about $75-150K, which is about the 25th to 75th percentile of HHI, essentially the middle of the earning curve. The affluent is probably about the 76th percentile to the 99th percentile or about $150-400K. The rich are the 1% which in this area is roughly over 400K.

Well, of course this works if you add another category ("affluent"). But usually people say the categories are poor, working class, middle class, and rich, and pretty much anyone who supports their family with a job is going to put themselves in the "middle class" category.

Well it's all about how we feel, right? Lots of armchair experts on this board.

This guy had some interesting thoughts on how difficult it is to make these generalizations- be sure to read the last paragraph, haha.
http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2014/08/defining_rich_in_america_what_are_the_income_cutoffs.html

I'm not sure what the obsession is with being identified in one category is anyway. Things like taxes and financial aid are determined on a continuous scale, or rather very detailed, narrow classifications like tax brackets.

Slightly OT but I back in school I had to interview an elder for a class project- I chose my Grandma and one of the questions we had to ask was what class they identified themselves in. She said "upper middle," which my dad got a kick out of, but in her mind she and my grandfather were successful- they raised nine healthy and successful children, were devout Christians, and were able to retire to Florida condo. Of course, all it took was a chronic illness to zap their savings and from then on my dad and his siblings had to cover everything their SS check didn't. Now she's in a Medicaid bed in a nursing facility. But due to her dementia, I'm willing to bet she still identifies herself as "upper-middle."

[Anonymous]

Uh sorry about that, not sure how the quoted part of my post duplicated itself!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has been beaten to death. People in DC who make over $150k believe that that money should buy you certain things. It should buy you a house with an easy commute, good school district, ability to save for retirement and perhaps a vacation.

But it does not. Housing and childcare eat up much of the budget. Middle class can't live with a short commute. They have to live further out. Retirement is suspended by the need to pay for childcare. Vacations are more along ocean city rather than Aruba.

The DC middle class do not have the buying power that the rest of the countries middle class have. So we can argue about absolute dollars with regard to HHI, but middle class is about lifestyle. And $150k for a family of 4, does not buy a middle class lifestyle.

You are omitting so many factors that make DC different from those other cities, and therefore more in demand with accompanying higher prices. We have three large airports within an hour of the district, a large metro system, world class museums and performing arts, a research zoo, three large research universities in the district, and several more colleges, in nearby suburbs, a growing tech business, several major health systems, several national sports teams, and of course hundreds of thousands of unique employment opportunities for white collar workers because DC is the seat of the federal govt. You are not going to get this incredible mix of opportunities in a city of average cost. A middle class life in DC will buy you proximity to these things as a trade off to a larger house or shorter commute.

Correct. But again, these are largely intangibles. So when policymakers say they want to tax you more because you're not middle class, or you don't qualify for college aid, because you're not middle class, they are assuming that you are putting the money into savings or spending on something that you could go without. When actually, you are spending it on housing and associated increased cost of living expenses, and the "benefits" you are getting are intangibles and can't be "cut." So people in higher cost of living areas are disadvantaged, when their incomes are classified as "wealthy" but their standard of living is what would be considered middle class anywhere else, with various intangible amenities associated with the location.

of course they can be cut. how do you think people who make 1/3 of what you make live here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has been beaten to death. People in DC who make over $150k believe that that money should buy you certain things. It should buy you a house with an easy commute, good school district, ability to save for retirement and perhaps a vacation.

But it does not. Housing and childcare eat up much of the budget. Middle class can't live with a short commute. They have to live further out. Retirement is suspended by the need to pay for childcare. Vacations are more along ocean city rather than Aruba.

The DC middle class do not have the buying power that the rest of the countries middle class have. So we can argue about absolute dollars with regard to HHI, but middle class is about lifestyle. And $150k for a family of 4, does not buy a middle class lifestyle.

You are omitting so many factors that make DC different from those other cities, and therefore more in demand with accompanying higher prices. We have three large airports within an hour of the district, a large metro system, world class museums and performing arts, a research zoo, three large research universities in the district, and several more colleges, in nearby suburbs, a growing tech business, several major health systems, several national sports teams, and of course hundreds of thousands of unique employment opportunities for white collar workers because DC is the seat of the federal govt. You are not going to get this incredible mix of opportunities in a city of average cost. A middle class life in DC will buy you proximity to these things as a trade off to a larger house or shorter commute.

Correct. But again, these are largely intangibles. So when policymakers say they want to tax you more because you're not middle class, or you don't qualify for college aid, because you're not middle class, they are assuming that you are putting the money into savings or spending on something that you could go without. When actually, you are spending it on housing and associated increased cost of living expenses, and the "benefits" you are getting are intangibles and can't be "cut." So people in higher cost of living areas are disadvantaged, when their incomes are classified as "wealthy" but their standard of living is what would be considered middle class anywhere else, with various intangible amenities associated with the location.

No, the fuck you did not say that you were "disadvantaged" because you cannot get the benefits you were looking for.
So many of you are so damned deluded it's pitiful.
Yes our household income is over $200,000 and NOT THE FUCK WE ARE NOT MIDDLE CLASS.
We CHOSE to live in this area
We CHOSE our career paths and the jobs that brought us here
We get to CHOOSE from a lot more options that people earning much less and in lower cost of living areas do not get to choose from
Because I do not have something I want and expected does not magically make me something I am not
DAFUQ?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has been beaten to death. People in DC who make over $150k believe that that money should buy you certain things. It should buy you a house with an easy commute, good school district, ability to save for retirement and perhaps a vacation.

But it does not. Housing and childcare eat up much of the budget. Middle class can't live with a short commute. They have to live further out. Retirement is suspended by the need to pay for childcare. Vacations are more along ocean city rather than Aruba.

The DC middle class do not have the buying power that the rest of the countries middle class have. So we can argue about absolute dollars with regard to HHI, but middle class is about lifestyle. And $150k for a family of 4, does not buy a middle class lifestyle.

You are omitting so many factors that make DC different from those other cities, and therefore more in demand with accompanying higher prices. We have three large airports within an hour of the district, a large metro system, world class museums and performing arts, a research zoo, three large research universities in the district, and several more colleges, in nearby suburbs, a growing tech business, several major health systems, several national sports teams, and of course hundreds of thousands of unique employment opportunities for white collar workers because DC is the seat of the federal govt. You are not going to get this incredible mix of opportunities in a city of average cost. A middle class life in DC will buy you proximity to these things as a trade off to a larger house or shorter commute.

Correct. But again, these are largely intangibles. So when policymakers say they want to tax you more because you're not middle class, or you don't qualify for college aid, because you're not middle class, they are assuming that you are putting the money into savings or spending on something that you could go without. When actually, you are spending it on housing and associated increased cost of living expenses, and the "benefits" you are getting are intangibles and can't be "cut." So people in higher cost of living areas are disadvantaged, when their incomes are classified as "wealthy" but their standard of living is what would be considered middle class anywhere else, with various intangible amenities associated with the location.

No, the fuck you did not say that you were "disadvantaged" because you cannot get the benefits you were looking for.
So many of you are so damned deluded it's pitiful.
Yes our household income is over $200,000 and NOT THE FUCK WE ARE NOT MIDDLE CLASS.
We CHOSE to live in this area
We CHOSE our career paths and the jobs that brought us here
We get to CHOOSE from a lot more options that people earning much less and in lower cost of living areas do not get to choose from
Because I do not have something I want and expected does not magically make me something I am not
DAFUQ?!

Right on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has been beaten to death. People in DC who make over $150k believe that that money should buy you certain things. It should buy you a house with an easy commute, good school district, ability to save for retirement and perhaps a vacation.

But it does not. Housing and childcare eat up much of the budget. Middle class can't live with a short commute. They have to live further out. Retirement is suspended by the need to pay for childcare. Vacations are more along ocean city rather than Aruba.

The DC middle class do not have the buying power that the rest of the countries middle class have. So we can argue about absolute dollars with regard to HHI, but middle class is about lifestyle. And $150k for a family of 4, does not buy a middle class lifestyle.

You are omitting so many factors that make DC different from those other cities, and therefore more in demand with accompanying higher prices. We have three large airports within an hour of the district, a large metro system, world class museums and performing arts, a research zoo, three large research universities in the district, and several more colleges, in nearby suburbs, a growing tech business, several major health systems, several national sports teams, and of course hundreds of thousands of unique employment opportunities for white collar workers because DC is the seat of the federal govt. You are not going to get this incredible mix of opportunities in a city of average cost. A middle class life in DC will buy you proximity to these things as a trade off to a larger house or shorter commute.

Correct. But again, these are largely intangibles. So when policymakers say they want to tax you more because you're not middle class, or you don't qualify for college aid, because you're not middle class, they are assuming that you are putting the money into savings or spending on something that you could go without. When actually, you are spending it on housing and associated increased cost of living expenses, and the "benefits" you are getting are intangibles and can't be "cut." So people in higher cost of living areas are disadvantaged, when their incomes are classified as "wealthy" but their standard of living is what would be considered middle class anywhere else, with various intangible amenities associated with the location.

of course they can be cut. how do you think people who make 1/3 of what you make live here?

They don't own houses. It is extremely difficult to get into any kind of housing here for less than $300K, which is MORE than a SFH costs almost anywhere else in the country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has been beaten to death. People in DC who make over $150k believe that that money should buy you certain things. It should buy you a house with an easy commute, good school district, ability to save for retirement and perhaps a vacation.

But it does not. Housing and childcare eat up much of the budget. Middle class can't live with a short commute. They have to live further out. Retirement is suspended by the need to pay for childcare. Vacations are more along ocean city rather than Aruba.

The DC middle class do not have the buying power that the rest of the countries middle class have. So we can argue about absolute dollars with regard to HHI, but middle class is about lifestyle. And $150k for a family of 4, does not buy a middle class lifestyle.

You are omitting so many factors that make DC different from those other cities, and therefore more in demand with accompanying higher prices. We have three large airports within an hour of the district, a large metro system, world class museums and performing arts, a research zoo, three large research universities in the district, and several more colleges, in nearby suburbs, a growing tech business, several major health systems, several national sports teams, and of course hundreds of thousands of unique employment opportunities for white collar workers because DC is the seat of the federal govt. You are not going to get this incredible mix of opportunities in a city of average cost. A middle class life in DC will buy you proximity to these things as a trade off to a larger house or shorter commute.

Correct. But again, these are largely intangibles. So when policymakers say they want to tax you more because you're not middle class, or you don't qualify for college aid, because you're not middle class, they are assuming that you are putting the money into savings or spending on something that you could go without. When actually, you are spending it on housing and associated increased cost of living expenses, and the "benefits" you are getting are intangibles and can't be "cut." So people in higher cost of living areas are disadvantaged, when their incomes are classified as "wealthy" but their standard of living is what would be considered middle class anywhere else, with various intangible amenities associated with the location.

of course they can be cut. how do you think people who make 1/3 of what you make live here?

They don't own houses. It is extremely difficult to get into any kind of housing here for less than $300K, which is MORE than a SFH costs almost anywhere else in the country.

who doesn't own houses? People making less than you? Get a grip. Of course we do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has been beaten to death. People in DC who make over $150k believe that that money should buy you certain things. It should buy you a house with an easy commute, good school district, ability to save for retirement and perhaps a vacation.

But it does not. Housing and childcare eat up much of the budget. Middle class can't live with a short commute. They have to live further out. Retirement is suspended by the need to pay for childcare. Vacations are more along ocean city rather than Aruba.

The DC middle class do not have the buying power that the rest of the countries middle class have. So we can argue about absolute dollars with regard to HHI, but middle class is about lifestyle. And $150k for a family of 4, does not buy a middle class lifestyle.

You are omitting so many factors that make DC different from those other cities, and therefore more in demand with accompanying higher prices. We have three large airports within an hour of the district, a large metro system, world class museums and performing arts, a research zoo, three large research universities in the district, and several more colleges, in nearby suburbs, a growing tech business, several major health systems, several national sports teams, and of course hundreds of thousands of unique employment opportunities for white collar workers because DC is the seat of the federal govt. You are not going to get this incredible mix of opportunities in a city of average cost. A middle class life in DC will buy you proximity to these things as a trade off to a larger house or shorter commute.

Correct. But again, these are largely intangibles. So when policymakers say they want to tax you more because you're not middle class, or you don't qualify for college aid, because you're not middle class, they are assuming that you are putting the money into savings or spending on something that you could go without. When actually, you are spending it on housing and associated increased cost of living expenses, and the "benefits" you are getting are intangibles and can't be "cut." So people in higher cost of living areas are disadvantaged, when their incomes are classified as "wealthy" but their standard of living is what would be considered middle class anywhere else, with various intangible amenities associated with the location.

No, the fuck you did not say that you were "disadvantaged" because you cannot get the benefits you were looking for.
So many of you are so damned deluded it's pitiful.
Yes our household income is over $200,000 and NOT THE FUCK WE ARE NOT MIDDLE CLASS.
We CHOSE to live in this area
We CHOSE our career paths and the jobs that brought us here
We get to CHOOSE from a lot more options that people earning much less and in lower cost of living areas do not get to choose from
Because I do not have something I want and expected does not magically make me something I am not
DAFUQ?!

You are absolutely disadvantaged compared to someone with the same income in a lower cost of living area, when things are not indexed to the cost of living. That is not the same as being "disadvantaged" in the normal socioeconomic sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has been beaten to death. People in DC who make over $150k believe that that money should buy you certain things. It should buy you a house with an easy commute, good school district, ability to save for retirement and perhaps a vacation.

But it does not. Housing and childcare eat up much of the budget. Middle class can't live with a short commute. They have to live further out. Retirement is suspended by the need to pay for childcare. Vacations are more along ocean city rather than Aruba.

The DC middle class do not have the buying power that the rest of the countries middle class have. So we can argue about absolute dollars with regard to HHI, but middle class is about lifestyle. And $150k for a family of 4, does not buy a middle class lifestyle.

You are omitting so many factors that make DC different from those other cities, and therefore more in demand with accompanying higher prices. We have three large airports within an hour of the district, a large metro system, world class museums and performing arts, a research zoo, three large research universities in the district, and several more colleges, in nearby suburbs, a growing tech business, several major health systems, several national sports teams, and of course hundreds of thousands of unique employment opportunities for white collar workers because DC is the seat of the federal govt. You are not going to get this incredible mix of opportunities in a city of average cost. A middle class life in DC will buy you proximity to these things as a trade off to a larger house or shorter commute.

Correct. But again, these are largely intangibles. So when policymakers say they want to tax you more because you're not middle class, or you don't qualify for college aid, because you're not middle class, they are assuming that you are putting the money into savings or spending on something that you could go without. When actually, you are spending it on housing and associated increased cost of living expenses, and the "benefits" you are getting are intangibles and can't be "cut." So people in higher cost of living areas are disadvantaged, when their incomes are classified as "wealthy" but their standard of living is what would be considered middle class anywhere else, with various intangible amenities associated with the location.

of course they can be cut. how do you think people who make 1/3 of what you make live here?

They don't own houses. It is extremely difficult to get into any kind of housing here for less than $300K, which is MORE than a SFH costs almost anywhere else in the country.

and by the way - we all understand this is an expensive area. and we all chose to live here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has been beaten to death. People in DC who make over $150k believe that that money should buy you certain things. It should buy you a house with an easy commute, good school district, ability to save for retirement and perhaps a vacation.

But it does not. Housing and childcare eat up much of the budget. Middle class can't live with a short commute. They have to live further out. Retirement is suspended by the need to pay for childcare. Vacations are more along ocean city rather than Aruba.

The DC middle class do not have the buying power that the rest of the countries middle class have. So we can argue about absolute dollars with regard to HHI, but middle class is about lifestyle. And $150k for a family of 4, does not buy a middle class lifestyle.

You are omitting so many factors that make DC different from those other cities, and therefore more in demand with accompanying higher prices. We have three large airports within an hour of the district, a large metro system, world class museums and performing arts, a research zoo, three large research universities in the district, and several more colleges, in nearby suburbs, a growing tech business, several major health systems, several national sports teams, and of course hundreds of thousands of unique employment opportunities for white collar workers because DC is the seat of the federal govt. You are not going to get this incredible mix of opportunities in a city of average cost. A middle class life in DC will buy you proximity to these things as a trade off to a larger house or shorter commute.

Correct. But again, these are largely intangibles. So when policymakers say they want to tax you more because you're not middle class, or you don't qualify for college aid, because you're not middle class, they are assuming that you are putting the money into savings or spending on something that you could go without. When actually, you are spending it on housing and associated increased cost of living expenses, and the "benefits" you are getting are intangibles and can't be "cut." So people in higher cost of living areas are disadvantaged, when their incomes are classified as "wealthy" but their standard of living is what would be considered middle class anywhere else, with various intangible amenities associated with the location.

No, the fuck you did not say that you were "disadvantaged" because you cannot get the benefits you were looking for.
So many of you are so damned deluded it's pitiful.
Yes our household income is over $200,000 and NOT THE FUCK WE ARE NOT MIDDLE CLASS.
We CHOSE to live in this area
We CHOSE our career paths and the jobs that brought us here
We get to CHOOSE from a lot more options that people earning much less and in lower cost of living areas do not get to choose from
Because I do not have something I want and expected does not magically make me something I am not
DAFUQ?!

You are absolutely disadvantaged compared to someone with the same income in a lower cost of living area, when things are not indexed to the cost of living. That is not the same as being "disadvantaged" in the normal socioeconomic sense.

so fucking move

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has been beaten to death. People in DC who make over $150k believe that that money should buy you certain things. It should buy you a house with an easy commute, good school district, ability to save for retirement and perhaps a vacation.

But it does not. Housing and childcare eat up much of the budget. Middle class can't live with a short commute. They have to live further out. Retirement is suspended by the need to pay for childcare. Vacations are more along ocean city rather than Aruba.

The DC middle class do not have the buying power that the rest of the countries middle class have. So we can argue about absolute dollars with regard to HHI, but middle class is about lifestyle. And $150k for a family of 4, does not buy a middle class lifestyle.

You are omitting so many factors that make DC different from those other cities, and therefore more in demand with accompanying higher prices. We have three large airports within an hour of the district, a large metro system, world class museums and performing arts, a research zoo, three large research universities in the district, and several more colleges, in nearby suburbs, a growing tech business, several major health systems, several national sports teams, and of course hundreds of thousands of unique employment opportunities for white collar workers because DC is the seat of the federal govt. You are not going to get this incredible mix of opportunities in a city of average cost. A middle class life in DC will buy you proximity to these things as a trade off to a larger house or shorter commute.

Correct. But again, these are largely intangibles. So when policymakers say they want to tax you more because you're not middle class, or you don't qualify for college aid, because you're not middle class, they are assuming that you are putting the money into savings or spending on something that you could go without. When actually, you are spending it on housing and associated increased cost of living expenses, and the "benefits" you are getting are intangibles and can't be "cut." So people in higher cost of living areas are disadvantaged, when their incomes are classified as "wealthy" but their standard of living is what would be considered middle class anywhere else, with various intangible amenities associated with the location.

of course they can be cut. how do you think people who make 1/3 of what you make live here?

They don't own houses. It is extremely difficult to get into any kind of housing here for less than $300K, which is MORE than a SFH costs almost anywhere else in the country.

SFH's in neighborhoods that are close to major cities, with the amenities that people here (by which I mean DCUM) think of as necessities, such as schools with predominantly affluent student bodies, and metro stations to take you to concerts and museums in the city, and low crime rates, don't cost $300K in most areas.

Yes, you can buy a wonderful SFH in Bumblefuq. But you can't argue that it's unfair that people in Bumblefuq have it so good, while also arguing that you "need" your community to be walkable, and urbane, and to have schools with high test scores, because Bumblefuq does not have those things. People in rural and semi-rural communities regularly drive long distances for all sorts of things. They send their kids to schools with lots of social economic diversity. They live in areas where they don't have a lot of access to things like museums. If you are saying that those communities are equivalent to your community in Arlington or Bethesda, then move to PG or Prince William County. There you can find more affordable housing, socio-economically diverse schools (with corresponding test scores), and have the opportunity to drive long distances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has been beaten to death. People in DC who make over $150k believe that that money should buy you certain things. It should buy you a house with an easy commute, good school district, ability to save for retirement and perhaps a vacation.

But it does not. Housing and childcare eat up much of the budget. Middle class can't live with a short commute. They have to live further out. Retirement is suspended by the need to pay for childcare. Vacations are more along ocean city rather than Aruba.

The DC middle class do not have the buying power that the rest of the countries middle class have. So we can argue about absolute dollars with regard to HHI, but middle class is about lifestyle. And $150k for a family of 4, does not buy a middle class lifestyle.

You are omitting so many factors that make DC different from those other cities, and therefore more in demand with accompanying higher prices. We have three large airports within an hour of the district, a large metro system, world class museums and performing arts, a research zoo, three large research universities in the district, and several more colleges, in nearby suburbs, a growing tech business, several major health systems, several national sports teams, and of course hundreds of thousands of unique employment opportunities for white collar workers because DC is the seat of the federal govt. You are not going to get this incredible mix of opportunities in a city of average cost. A middle class life in DC will buy you proximity to these things as a trade off to a larger house or shorter commute.

Correct. But again, these are largely intangibles. So when policymakers say they want to tax you more because you're not middle class, or you don't qualify for college aid, because you're not middle class, they are assuming that you are putting the money into savings or spending on something that you could go without. When actually, you are spending it on housing and associated increased cost of living expenses, and the "benefits" you are getting are intangibles and can't be "cut." So people in higher cost of living areas are disadvantaged, when their incomes are classified as "wealthy" but their standard of living is what would be considered middle class anywhere else, with various intangible amenities associated with the location.

No, the fuck you did not say that you were "disadvantaged" because you cannot get the benefits you were looking for.
So many of you are so damned deluded it's pitiful.
Yes our household income is over $200,000 and NOT THE FUCK WE ARE NOT MIDDLE CLASS.
We CHOSE to live in this area
We CHOSE our career paths and the jobs that brought us here
We get to CHOOSE from a lot more options that people earning much less and in lower cost of living areas do not get to choose from
Because I do not have something I want and expected does not magically make me something I am not
DAFUQ?!

You are absolutely disadvantaged compared to someone with the same income in a lower cost of living area, when things are not indexed to the cost of living. That is not the same as being "disadvantaged" in the normal socioeconomic sense.

so fucking move

Why so angry?