Jews and Germans

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Except that one occurred over a span of three years and the other over three centuries. And that the majority of "killed" Native Americans died from disease and not murder. !!!!??

You need a better history book

You need a better moral center and a course in ethical reasoning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I blame the Romans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
And so did the jews when they were displaced from Israel 2000 years ago. I don't ever hear anyone bemoaning their fate though.

At some point there has to be a statute of limitations.

Why? There isn't for murder.

Should it be 10 years? 20 years? 50 years? 500 years? 5000 years?

A couple of generations seems fair. So 50 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Daniel Jonah Goldhagen's hypothesis was that there was something different about Germany that made antisemitism flourish there in as murderous way. I don't necessarily agree with this hypothesis, as a lot of historians have criticized his methodology. However, he asks whether one can envision everyday Danes or Italians participating in the Holocaust the way Germans did. The fact that I can't envision that makes me want to do more research on this topic.

I find the Goldhagen stuff pure populism. No woder he wasn't given tenure at Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:An honest, serious question.

For those that criticize the Zionists for what may have happened to Palestinians when Israel became a state, what do you think about what American settlers did to the native american people? Or for that matter, the current state of many native american people?

Life, and history, is not black and white. But bigotry is.

I think what the whites did to the native Americans were slimy, then atrocious. We owe the native Americans big time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to live in Germany. The Germans, particularly the former West German government, have generally confronted the past. By contrast, the Austrians for years have pretended that they were a conquered victim nation with no responsibility for their Nazi past. There's a saying that the Austrians have spent decades convinvg the world that Hitler was a German and Beethoven was an Austrian.

Japan is the worst when it comes to stuff like this. Events like the Rape of Nanking and atrocities committed during the occupation of Korea are routinely glossed over or not mentioned at all. Korea is still waiting on an official apology from Japan.

China finally got an acknowledgement from Japan when they admitted that they did indeed nab beach goers and experiment on them. Westerners don't care. They don't care what Japan has done to China, Korea, or the Philippines.

They dropped the A bomb in Japan instead of of Germany.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

All true. I am not claiming that the near-annilihation of native Indians would not be a crime, far from it. I am only claiming that it is different from the "final solution" and the holocaust.

It is pretty final, both in terms of annihilation back then and poverty right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to live in Germany. The Germans, particularly the former West German government, have generally confronted the past. By contrast, the Austrians for years have pretended that they were a conquered victim nation with no responsibility for their Nazi past. There's a saying that the Austrians have spent decades convinvg the world that Hitler was a German and Beethoven was an Austrian.

Japan is the worst when it comes to stuff like this. Events like the Rape of Nanking and atrocities committed during the occupation of Korea are routinely glossed over or not mentioned at all. Korea is still waiting on an official apology from Japan.

China finally got an acknowledgement from Japan when they admitted that they did indeed nab beach goers and experiment on them. Westerners don't care. They don't care what Japan has done to China, Korea, or the Philippines.

They dropped the A bomb in Japan instead of of Germany.

That's because the war in Germany was over.

[Anonymous]

PP

There you go bringing up that rational thing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always find it interesting that folks can have a reasonable discussion about the Holocaust, yet get super defensive and combative when slavery is the topic.

Is it because many Jews have been able to do well for themselves despite their history? While AAs have continued to struggle. So history seems to have more affect on the present day SES of descendants of former slaves than Holocaust survivors. Or maybe because the Holocaust happened in a foreign country while slavery happened here.

The jews were not deprived of education and family connections for generations. Can't compare AAs to Jews.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's dangerous to believe that there is something special about Germans that makes them more evil than the rest of us. Do you think spaniards are more evil because they participated in the slave trade? How about white Americans? How about the Japanese and their aggression in WWII? Or how about the US, dropping a bomb on Hiroshima? No one has a monopoly on evil. We are all capable of it. And unless you are dedicating yourself to saving people from genocide wherever it is occurring TODAY, you are partially culpable.

Yes
Yes
Yes
And yes
But Germany and Hiroshima are tied for 1 and 2 with Japam and Pearl Harbor close 2. But I know the Japanese have some esteem and aggression issues to work out.

But how often do people come on this board bemoaning our economic ties to Japan? Or saying how they hold the Japanese today responsible for the crimes of WWII?

And how often do people come on this board to say they hate the English or Spanish or some other country which participated extensively in the slave trade? Or that they hate white people from Alabama or Louisiana or wherever who are likely descended from salve owners?

People have carved out a special place for hatred and blame for Germans. I also loathe the Holocaust but I don't think decided that some 30 year old German guy today is evil because of Hitler.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always find it interesting that folks can have a reasonable discussion about the Holocaust, yet get super defensive and combative when slavery is the topic.

Is it because many Jews have been able to do well for themselves despite their history? While AAs have continued to struggle. So history seems to have more affect on the present day SES of descendants of former slaves than Holocaust survivors. Or maybe because the Holocaust happened in a foreign country while slavery happened here.

The jews were not deprived of education and family connections for generations. Can't compare AAs to Jews.

You're right. People have only been trying to kill the Jewish people for the last several milennia. No big deal, right? They weren't put in the original ghettos, they weren't rounded up and killed, they weren't tortured, they weren't run out of their villages... just the Holocaust and that's it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Daniel Jonah Goldhagen's hypothesis was that there was something different about Germany that made antisemitism flourish there in as murderous way. I don't necessarily agree with this hypothesis, as a lot of historians have criticized his methodology. However, he asks whether one can envision everyday Danes or Italians participating in the Holocaust the way Germans did. The fact that I can't envision that makes me want to do more research on this topic.

I find the Goldhagen stuff pure populism. No woder he wasn't given tenure at Harvard.

Seriously? Ever hear of Mussolini?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's dangerous to believe that there is something special about Germans that makes them more evil than the rest of us. Do you think spaniards are more evil because they participated in the slave trade? How about white Americans? How about the Japanese and their aggression in WWII? Or how about the US, dropping a bomb on Hiroshima? No one has a monopoly on evil. We are all capable of it. And unless you are dedicating yourself to saving people from genocide wherever it is occurring TODAY, you are partially culpable.

Yes
Yes
Yes
And yes
But Germany and Hiroshima are tied for 1 and 2 with Japam and Pearl Harbor close 2. But I know the Japanese have some esteem and aggression issues to work out.

But how often do people come on this board bemoaning our economic ties to Japan? Or saying how they hold the Japanese today responsible for the crimes of WWII?

And how often do people come on this board to say they hate the English or Spanish or some other country which participated extensively in the slave trade? Or that they hate white people from Alabama or Louisiana or wherever who are likely descended from salve owners?

People have carved out a special place for hatred and blame for Germans. I also loathe the Holocaust but I don't think decided that some 30 year old German guy today is evil because of Hitler.

Japan got not one but two A bombs and they put Japanese in internment camps.

The English and Spanish are monsters. They are largely responsible for the annihilation of the original owners of the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Daniel Jonah Goldhagen's hypothesis was that there was something different about Germany that made antisemitism flourish there in as murderous way. I don't necessarily agree with this hypothesis, as a lot of historians have criticized his methodology. However, he asks whether one can envision everyday Danes or Italians participating in the Holocaust the way Germans did. The fact that I can't envision that makes me want to do more research on this topic.

I find the Goldhagen stuff pure populism. No woder he wasn't given tenure at Harvard.

Seriously? Ever hear of Mussolini?

Possibly. Italian soccer player or opera singer, I suppose.

Point?