Jews and Germans
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Anonymous
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Marx was jewish and Trotsky, Lenins grandfather was too. Communism was a big worldwide movement and had attracted jewish followers
ironically it was Germany that sent Lenin to Russia. Someone financed them, but history is silent on this Without the soviet socialists, there would not have been a threat, the whole story is tied to the unfinished war of ww1 and the recession |
Anonymous
Again, they're different, which does not diminish the horror of what happened. In the Nazi led Holocaust, the state marshaled its resources in furtherance of genocide. Camps were organized, numbers were assigned, eugenics were practiced on the old and disabled (among others), and it was a years' long campaign. Most other genocides are basically slaughter. Again, this does not diminish that genocide, no matter how it's done, is awful. |
Anonymous
The perpetrators may be different but the victim feels the same. |
Anonymous
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While luckily the discussion in this threat seems to have come to an standstill, I just spent my time reading all 24 pages and I still can't believe what some people manage to write down. Some opinions (read: some, not all. At least in between there is hope!) here are nothing, but appalling. So I can't help myself and have to reply.
It's funny how everyone has their opinion on this topic, on the forefront people who are neither Jewish, nor German. It's funny how people honestly post that Germans are not decent, that they would never trust Germans and so on. That Germans are evil by nature. Do you even understand that opinions like that are not any different from certain opinions held and spread back by the Nazis? Stereotypes against members of a religion/ethnicity/citizenship? Saying they all have the same bad trait! That's racism right there, but oh when it comes to the Germans it's ok to have such a view. I have news for you: No it's not. I'm so tired of people like those. I'm German, born 60 years after WW2 ended, I have been living overseas for a long time. I understand that there are holocaust survivors and their families who resent Germans and Nazi-Germany for what they did back then. And I can relate to their feeling, I completely understand. "Funny" enough though, most of them do not resent modern day Germans. Because I hope that they know that it would just be history repeating itself. And I too do not buy products from companies that operate in an unethical way (which is pretty difficult to do... keeps you from buying lots of stuff). I live in a predominantly Jewish neighbourhood, I work for an Israeli company and not once have I had a bad encounter here on the ground that I am German. I have lovely rapport with both younger and older people (both holocaust survivors and their families and people that fled from Germany and Eastern Europe) from this community, who know about my background. We talk about places back home we have both seen, we cherish common recipes etc. It's people who are neither Jewish nor German that have given me a hard time over the years. People of all kinds of different descent calling me a Nazi (believe me, it's even worse when both you and your partner are tall, blonde and blue-eyed). If you confront them about it, they mostly turn out to be uneducated idiots that have nothing in their live, but their own ignorance. They are so stupid and ignorant that they don't even see what they're doing behaving like this. All they know about Germans and Germany they have learned from stupid movies hailing from Hollywood. Way to go! All German Young Adults learned about Jews during the Nazi-regime came from books and movies too, and look what happened... The other day I was on a flight from Singapore to Australia and while waiting for the restrooms, this oldish Australian guy tries to talk to me. No worries, I don't mind a friendly conversation. After a friendly exchange for like 3 minutes, he recognises my underlying accent (often hard to pin point for others, as I have a mixture of American and Australian English in there as well). He feels its a funny idea to go Heil H. on me, I let him know that I don't appreciate those comments. He turns really angry, calls me a Nazi b*tch, comes with all kinds of racist crap onto me, and on telling him to back off, he spits on me. Way to go, mate! I tell him to go f himself and leave. Later on I hear him a couple of rows behind me talking to his seat neighbour about how he lives in the Philippines, where he enjoys those 'dirty yellow pussies', because 'those Asians are stupid monkeys'... WTF?! Yes, what happened back then was horrible, never to repeat again. And yes, the world will probably keep reminding us Germans over and over again. Not that we do not keep reminding ourselves to a paranoid degree. At first my partner refused to buy at the local Jewish bakery, because he did not want to insult anyone should they find out that he is originally German. Is this what you want from us, world? I hope not! But those, who were not involved, should seriously shut up about us. And as some suggested start with their own corpses in their backyard. No, you cannot compare crime, and yes, the Nazis were pretty organized at it, but still people run around calling us Nazis, but - as someone pointed out - turn defensive once you tell them about their nations history. Which, they then conclude, cannot be compared and certainly was not that bad, only done by a few etc (Given that they even know all the facts like us Germans do regarding the holocaust). Go figure. And those not involved with no clue on modern Germany should also think about the fact that in Germany Kids are ever since educated in very much detail about what happened (I remember that we probably spend a total of 2 years in history class talking about WW2), that Germany had to pay for what it did and still does pay for it, that Germany is pretty harsh on racists these days. Something I have not seen in other countries I have lived in. |
Anonymous
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PP, that's INSANE! I am Jewish and have no beef with any German who didn't personally take place in the Holocaust. Our neighbors are German and great people. I go to their Oktoberfest parties and we've had some lovely discussions about things you talk about.
For someone to treat you like that? Disgusting! I'm so sorry you had to deal with that. |
Anonymous
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I'm Jewish, and I admit (here and to DH) that I harbor suspicions about elderly Germans. Those feelings have lessened some as I've gotten older and realized that many Germans probably did oppose the Nazis and likely even tried to help Jews. That they weren't all so courageous as to put their families' lives on the line to do more - I guess evidenced only by the fact that they survived the war themselves - isn't so hard to fathom. Regular non-nazis were being oppressed and scared and had families too. BUT you can't know who's who, and I jump up conclusions about elderly Germans.
No problem with young Germans. Almost uniformly sow if the nicest people I've met, and tend to be very progressive and liberal. I don't hold them accountable for the sins of their fathers (grandparents). I enjoyed traveling in Germany but did not visit a concentration camp. OT: It's about Italians, not Germans, but A Thread of Grace is a wonderful book about resistance fighters among everyday people. Aside from my comments above about understanding fear for your family keeping you from standing up when you should, that book reminds me there were still plenty that did. Recommend it! |
Anonymous
Can you give a brief summary? |
Anonymous
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This is (in parts) a very interesting thread. I'm German (born in the 1980's) and I feel that my country has the responsibility to never forget what happened and to make sure it does not happen again. I feel that during the last twenty years, Germany has done a lot in terms of 'Aufarbeitung', but it is not enough. There is still a tideous process that Holocaust survivors have to go through in order to get even a small pension type payment from the German government. Many give up trying because it can be a lengthy and humiliating process. It should not be this way. I don't like when Germans complain about being confronted with this topic. It is part of our history and it is our responsibility to learn and understand. A recent political discussion about accepting Roma from Eastern Europe into Germany turned really ugly at times and it showed that despite its progress, Germany still has a long way to go.
It took Germany a long time to get to this point. Shortly after the war, many of the former party and military members were able to have successful careers in the new army or the fled overseas. Not enough was done to find and prosecute them by the German government. Many were able to lead stable and good lives for decades until their natural death. This is not acceptable. A while back, I went out to dinner/drinks with some colleagues and the husband of one of my co-workers (he is Jewish) said that to me that he would never in his life travel to Germany or buy any German products (cars etc.). He said that he hates Germany. He also told me that a large part of his family (Polish ancestry) was killed during the Holocaust and he will never forgive or forget. While this is very painful to hear, I can respect what he is saying. I would probably feel exactly the same if this happened to my family. There is nothing that I could say or do to make this better for him or his family. All we can do, as a new younger generation, is to learn and never forget. I don't have any close Jewish friends, but there are quite a few Jewish people in my neighborhood and my children have Jewish friends. I have only experienced kindness and warmth from my Jewish neighbors. We exchange dishes and cookies and participate in potlucks and we have been invited to Bar-Mitzvah's and weddings. |
Anonymous
I have a really hard time believing that this really happened to you. I think you are either exaggerating or not telling the truth.
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