Jews and Germans

[Anonymous]

I'm Jewish and have several friends who are at least part German.

Interesting and strange tidbit-I remember my parents saying the German Jews consider themselves classier and smarter than the Jews from other parts and they sometimes snub other Jews or something like that. There was this ranking of sorts-German Jews considered themselves at the top then Russian Jews, etc then Sephardic from various places. I know, it's inane and senseless. My parents werr of Russian Jewish decent.

[Anonymous]

Why was Germany so eager to conquer others? Don't they have an abundance of natural resources? Thought it was usually countries and people that lacked those resources so they went out to take it from others.

[Anonymous]

Isn't the kind of thing which is not in there forefront of our minds, but when we think about past atrocities we can become angry?

In addition to the topic at hand, the Armenians suffered genocide at the hands of the Turks, Blacks can become angry about slavery and Jim Crow. Indians experienced displacement and genocide and the Irish experienced the Potato Famine. There are many more examples as well.

So, we live our lives with our everyday consciousness, but given a moment to dwell or confronting an experience that triggers a memory, I believe we are all capable of becoming angry and indignant about the injustices suffered by our ancestors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why was Germany so eager to conquer others? Don't they have an abundance of natural resources? Thought it was usually countries and people that lacked those resources so they went out to take it from others.

From my limited understanding it had to do with the aftermath of WWI: Germany's economy was in desperate straits. They needed a way out and somebody offered it but the evil nature of his vision was only gradually revealed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why was Germany so eager to conquer others? Don't they have an abundance of natural resources? Thought it was usually countries and people that lacked those resources so they went out to take it from others.

It's very complicated. It's more accurate to think of 1914 - 1991 as a single period of hot and cold (active and inactive) global war.

[Anonymous]

I am Jewish and have made many German friends, due to coincidences in work history that I could not have predicted. I have visited Germany five times. Never felt uncomfortable with adults my age particularly. I had one conversation that was slighted unpleasant with a colleague my age who felt the Allies should apologize for the bombing of Dresden, but that's his opinion. I didn't find anything sinister or anti-Semitic about it. I do sometimes feel with old people, I have a second guessing feeling about what they think or feel, but I have never had a bad experience.

[Anonymous]

My mom is German and she came to the U.S. to marry my Jewish dad when she was 20. We were raised atheist but celebrated Christmas in the fun German sense. I consider myself very German because all of my relatives live there (my dad was an only child with no extended family), and I visit Germany a couple of times a year. I don't identify with Jewish culture or religion, though I respect it, and my sister married a Jew and is raising her kids in that religion.

Long way of saying that in my family, there are no hard feelings either way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What the Jews have done to everyone in the Middle East is unforgivable. They have destabilized an entire region in one big land grab

Jews didn't grab the land. While they did so later in Israel's history, initially, the UN gave the land to them.

The Nazis exterminated millions of Jews during WW II, but then when the war was over, many Jews who tried to go home were ordered to go away and/or murdered by members of their communities. As many of you know, this wasn't a new development. Jews have been discriminated against, and worse, for centuries. The UN's decision was motivated by a pragmatic understanding that Jews would continue to experience ill treatment because, despite vows and assertions to the contrary, the global community did not really learn the kind of meaningful lessons necessary to stop this abuse. The UN's decision to give Jews their own country represented an avoidant solution. As long as Jews had their own country, the global community didn't have to confront the root causes for the centuries-old discrimination. Sadly, the ongoing conflict between Israelis and Palestinians, and anti-Semitism's recent rise in Europe, suggests that avoidant solutions aren't always good solutions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What the Jews have done to everyone in the Middle East is unforgivable. They have destabilized an entire region in one big land grab

Jews didn't grab the land. While they did so later in Israel's history, initially, the UN gave the land to them.

The Nazis exterminated millions of Jews during WW II, but then when the war was over, many Jews who tried to go home were ordered to go away and/or murdered by members of their communities. As many of you know, this wasn't a new development. Jews have been discriminated against, and worse, for centuries. The UN's decision was motivated by a pragmatic understanding that Jews would continue to experience ill treatment because, despite vows and assertions to the contrary, the global community did not really learn the kind of meaningful lessons necessary to stop this abuse. The UN's decision to give Jews their own country represented an avoidant solution. As long as Jews had their own country, the global community didn't have to confront the root causes for the centuries-old discrimination. Sadly, the ongoing conflict between Israelis and Palestinians, and anti-Semitism's recent rise in Europe, suggests that avoidant solutions aren't always good solutions.

also, Palestinians sold quite a bit of land in modern-day Israel to Jewish immigrants during the 50 years before the legal founding of Israel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is the point of this post? The answer depends on who you are asking. I am sure a concentration camp survivor's answer would be a hell of a lot different than others. This is a rude and insensitive post.

Yes it is. I'm German and extremely offended. And I do have many Jewish friends. Thank goodness they aren't as narrow minded as some disgustingly prejudiced people on this thread.

[Anonymous]

My relatives who fled Germany always considered themselves German and Jewish. They believed in German culture as connected to a high European culture (music, theater, art). My child can still get German citizenship through his great grandparents who fled, and we are planning to do so.

[Anonymous]

There are so many examples of genocide (look at South East Asia, Pol Pot, Rwanda...) I agree that we shouldn't judge present-day Germany based on its past. The US has bloody hands more recently (look what we did in Central America). And we allow a great deal more of the racist extremism that could justify violence. I think to prevent something like the Holocaust from happening again, it does no good to simply point blame. Instead, we have to look at what in human nature allowed that to happen. And then take steps to insure that it doesn't happen again. (and for that, what is happening to the palestinians also shouldn't be allowed to happen)

If we just decide that the holocaust happened because Germans are monsters, then we are doing the same kind of labeling that leads to violence and ultimately permits genocide. We need to look at ourselves, and need to look back at the Holocaust and figure out what allowed people to commit such atrocities. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. (mangled quote, but still)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So strange to judge a current population for the sins of their past. I understand that the Holocaust was horrific. But, there are many people now that had no role in that. Germany is also far from the only country who has committed atrocities (we don't have to look much further than the U.S. where we all reside? Do you have the same views about the U.S.?)

One of my very best friends is Jewish. We've talked about this and she won't go to Germany, won't buy German cars, etc. I just think this is odd. One thing to harbor such feelings toward an actual nazi/nazi sympathizer. This is something I just don't get.

I live in a very Jewish enclave and have Jewish friends. This has come up before and many have shared similar sentiments. Although I understand and sympathize with why they feel that way, I wonder if such perceptions will generally fade away as the actual participants die out just from old age. The war ended 68 years ago. Soon enough even the children involved will pass away from old age. At some point it will be more like how Americans view slavery no?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends, I find Berlin (and the people of) to be assholes. The rest of Germany can be ok. Munchen is nice.

I find German tourists to be the worst in the world. When I encounter elderly German people, I'm usually as rude as I can possibly be to them, because fuck them.

In South Asia the Israeli tourists have a pretty crappy reputation. Loud, obnoxious shoestring travelers if you're looking for generalizations.

And why do I care about Israel?

[Anonymous]

You could ask a similar question about how Japanese people feel about Americans I suppose.