DOJ says Yale medical school discriminated against Asian, White applicants

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Right, like they don’t cheat to get in at all.

Princeton (1/3 Asian now) announced they’re introducing proctoring back into exams due to widespread cheating.

In UC Berkeley (40% Asian) the number of students who require extra time on tests has nearly quintupled over past 15 years.

Let’s see what school wants to have a grind culture with cut throat competition and cheating? That’s right, none of them.

Why are the terms within the parentheses "Asian"? Why not "Hispanic" or "Black" or "Human"? Are you insinuating something?

This is just how white supremacists cope with asian academic excellence. They tell themselves that the only reason asian kids do better than their kid is because the asian kids all cheat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess when I am next looking for a doctor all I have to do is pick the one with the highest MCAT scores and I will know that I picked the best doctor.

This is a fallacious argument. We would all agree that a small difference in MCAT scores is not meaningful for doctor quality. But yes, all else equal, on average, people who can do well on a high stakes technical test are more likely to have full command of the information required to make accurate diagnoses and to understand the subtleties of the evidence about different kinds of treatments. And to have the interest and ability to keep up with medical research. Do you really not believe this?

I believe that there is a not insignificant share of doctors who are more interested in medicine than in people -- or who at the very least are not able to relate well to the people they are supposed to be caring for. I don't know that the capacity for caring gets adequately captured on the MCAT. -- PP

True, that is not what the MCAT is trying to capture, but why would there be such a large disparity in MCAT score by race at a p[articular school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a bummer as studies have shown repeatedly that health outcomes for black patients (especially for chronic conditions) are much better when they see black physicians. Individuals in race-matched pairings are far more likely to see their doctors and even their mortality rate decreases

Not a bummer at all. Don’t you want all doctors to meet the same qualifications regardless of race?

Except there have been racially based admissions standards for many years, which means that some black doctors were admitted to medical school with lower qualifications. And guess what, they became the doctors that help black patients have better outcomes than their white peers who had higher MCATs.

No, this isn’t how it works. A black doctor isn’t automatically better for a black patient. How can anyone think on such simple terms? The best test scores and best grades make the best doctors. It is a knowledge based field that requires the same problem solving thought process that these classes and exams are measuring. That is exactly why these are critical for admission.

People without empathy can be extremely intelligent and still make bad decisions/choices. For a while tech systems have been shown to be biased because the people making them were white and Asian and they didn’t think to check for anti black bias; not those researchers faults exactly, just not where people think first all the time.

You can be the most amazing doctor and researcher but have the worst patient care around.

The worst patient cares I received were all from black doctors surprisingly or unsurprisingly. It’s not even about the skills or knowledge. It’s their professionalism and willingness to serve (or lack thereof).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all know many colleges discriminate against Asians and whites. It is a liberal trend that current administration tries to revert. Not because they care about law, or fairness, but because they care about predominantly white maga base. What maga doesn't get is that with a pure merit based adminission, top schools like Yale or Harvard will be 80%+ Asian. And it is not because Asian kids are smarter but because they work harder being pushed most of the times by their families. That's the reality like it or not.

Why would maga care if a lot of doctors are Asian? Does maga have respect for doctors of any race?

You didn't get it. Maga care about their white kids not getting into colleges and about them not being able to find white doctors. They blame it on DEI but even without the DEI, their kids will not get higher chances because in a merit based process Asian will fill all the spots.

Asians consistently fail holistic admissions. It’s not racism but rather being one dimensional.

This has been debunked again and again including the SCOTUS ruling in the Harvard lawsuit. And yet you keep bringing it up to mislead people. This is much less true than all white fathers raping their own daughters.

Is it still rape if she's charging him for it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a bummer as studies have shown repeatedly that health outcomes for black patients (especially for chronic conditions) are much better when they see black physicians. Individuals in race-matched pairings are far more likely to see their doctors and even their mortality rate decreases

Not a bummer at all. Don’t you want all doctors to meet the same qualifications regardless of race?

Except there have been racially based admissions standards for many years, which means that some black doctors were admitted to medical school with lower qualifications. And guess what, they became the doctors that help black patients have better outcomes than their white peers who had higher MCATs.

No, this isn’t how it works. A black doctor isn’t automatically better for a black patient. How can anyone think on such simple terms? The best test scores and best grades make the best doctors. It is a knowledge based field that requires the same problem solving thought process that these classes and exams are measuring. That is exactly why these are critical for admission.

People without empathy can be extremely intelligent and still make bad decisions/choices. For a while tech systems have been shown to be biased because the people making them were white and Asian and they didn’t think to check for anti black bias; not those researchers faults exactly, just not where people think first all the time.

You can be the most amazing doctor and researcher but have the worst patient care around.

Higher IQ is positively correlated with cognitive empathy and prosocial behavior. People with lower IQ have a harder time imagining themselves in someone else's shoes. There are smart doctors with a bad bedside manner, but most bad doctors are less capable ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we, as a society, prevent universities from admitting individual students on the basis of their skin color, then the racist have already won.

Aren’t you a racist by promoting admission by skin color?

NP.

It’s not racism because it is racism only to correct the effects of historical racism.

Why don’t you understand that?

It was the white people who enslaved and murdered your ancestors, not the Asian people. They’re getting away and laughing their asses off at your idiocy when you’re lashing out at and focusing on Asians.

The vast majority of white Americans are the descendants of Ellis Island peasants. They didn't even get here until well after the end of slavery. Not a lot in common with the southern slave-owning aristocracy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all know many colleges discriminate against Asians and whites. It is a liberal trend that current administration tries to revert. Not because they care about law, or fairness, but because they care about predominantly white maga base. What maga doesn't get is that with a pure merit based adminission, top schools like Yale or Harvard will be 80%+ Asian. And it is not because Asian kids are smarter but because they work harder being pushed most of the times by their families. That's the reality like it or not.

Why would maga care if a lot of doctors are Asian? Does maga have respect for doctors of any race?

You didn't get it. Maga care about their white kids not getting into colleges and about them not being able to find white doctors. They blame it on DEI but even without the DEI, their kids will not get higher chances because in a merit based process Asian will fill all the spots.

Asians consistently fail holistic admissions. It’s not racism but rather being one dimensional.

This has been debunked again and again including the SCOTUS ruling in the Harvard lawsuit. And yet you keep bringing it up to mislead people. This is much less true than all white fathers raping their own daughters.

Is it still rape if she's charging him for it?

If she is underaged , yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay let's make this more concrete
You are the admissions committee. Your state is in need of more doctors willing to go into primary care to serve patients in underserved/rural areas. Here are your applicant potentials.
-Applicant 99% percentile MCAT, junior in college, has always wanted to be a doctor, did all of their pre-reqs with As. Joined the typical pre-med courses
-Applicant with 80% percentile MCAT. A nurse. did all her pre-reqs over the course of 3 years while working in a busy trauma center. Speaks fluent Spanish. Has won awards for patient-centered care. Has a family in the area and plans to stay to serve the community
-Applicant with 70% percentile MCAT. served in the military (thank you for your service). has a heart to serve the Veteran population. Wants to be a surgeon. has already done surgical training while serving (did EMS training).

And let me tell you... this is truly what the applicant pool looks like (if not more impressive).

You know based on historical data that anyone with >70% MCAT will pass all boards and succeed. Who will you pick?

The 99th percentile applicant. They are likely to have far fewer misdiagnoses, fewer fatal errors, better patient outcomes.

If you need more primary care doctors, do what every other state does. Import them from India. Seriously, some of the best trained doctors in India will come here and spend 10+ years as a primary care doctor in an underserved area in exchange for a greencard. I knew an Indian kid at Columbia whose dad was a doctor in Appalachia and that got him in, I don't think their school had ever seen an SAT score above 1500 before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all know many colleges discriminate against Asians and whites. It is a liberal trend that current administration tries to revert. Not because they care about law, or fairness, but because they care about predominantly white maga base. What maga doesn't get is that with a pure merit based adminission, top schools like Yale or Harvard will be 80%+ Asian. And it is not because Asian kids are smarter but because they work harder being pushed most of the times by their families. That's the reality like it or not.

Why would maga care if a lot of doctors are Asian? Does maga have respect for doctors of any race?

You didn't get it. Maga care about their white kids not getting into colleges and about them not being able to find white doctors. They blame it on DEI but even without the DEI, their kids will not get higher chances because in a merit based process Asian will fill all the spots.

Asians consistently fail holistic admissions. It’s not racism but rather being one dimensional.

This has been debunked again and again including the SCOTUS ruling in the Harvard lawsuit. And yet you keep bringing it up to mislead people. This is much less true than all white fathers raping their own daughters.

Is it still rape if she's charging him for it?

If she is underaged , yes.

What in the world is this a reference to?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just because a kid grinded since preK, to do well on tests and went to Kumin, AeOPS, doesn’t make them better professionals at the end.

I like how Dutch universities in the Netherlands approached the problem when they realized that the kids getting into medical schools had one thing in common - wealthy parents who could afford extensive tutoring.

They introduced a lottery system. We should do the same.

Lottery system? Yup, let's do the same to other professions. Lottery to design/fly airplanes, play in the Boston Symphony Orchestra, or make an NBA roster.

Jeez, remind me not to get sick in the netherlands

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just because a kid grinded since preK, to do well on tests and went to Kumin, AeOPS, doesn’t make them better professionals at the end.

I like how Dutch universities in the Netherlands approached the problem when they realized that the kids getting into medical schools had one thing in common - wealthy parents who could afford extensive tutoring.

They introduced a lottery system. We should do the same.

We should definitely not have a random lottery for med school admissions. And of course there shouldn't be racial preferences either. There are tons of strong black and hispanic students these days. It's not 1926. If there is one field where you really want genuine talent, it's medicine.

For my grandparents generation, they used to seek out Jewish doctors, because they knew how much discrimination they faced in med school admissions back in that era. They figured Jews have to be very talented to get through all the discrimination from that time. Race and religion are dumb reasons to choose a doctor. Now everyone will want an asian or white doctor because it's so much tougher for them to get into med school. This is not wonderful. Health care is life and death stuff. No one gives a damn about the race or religion of their oncologist or surgeon. But people do need some assurance they are good and not gliding through because they got lucky with being born a certain race.

There was a time when the most competent man in a room would be the black guy because he had to run through walls to get in there. Now it's likely not the black guy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a bummer as studies have shown repeatedly that health outcomes for black patients (especially for chronic conditions) are much better when they see black physicians. Individuals in race-matched pairings are far more likely to see their doctors and even their mortality rate decreases

Not a bummer at all. Don’t you want all doctors to meet the same qualifications regardless of race?

Except there have been racially based admissions standards for many years, which means that some black doctors were admitted to medical school with lower qualifications. And guess what, they became the doctors that help black patients have better outcomes than their white peers who had higher MCATs.

No, this isn’t how it works. A black doctor isn’t automatically better for a black patient. How can anyone think on such simple terms? The best test scores and best grades make the best doctors. It is a knowledge based field that requires the same problem solving thought process that these classes and exams are measuring. That is exactly why these are critical for admission.

People without empathy can be extremely intelligent and still make bad decisions/choices. For a while tech systems have been shown to be biased because the people making them were white and Asian and they didn’t think to check for anti black bias; not those researchers faults exactly, just not where people think first all the time.

You can be the most amazing doctor and researcher but have the worst patient care around.

Higher IQ is positively correlated with cognitive empathy and prosocial behavior. People with lower IQ have a harder time imagining themselves in someone else's shoes. There are smart doctors with a bad bedside manner, but most bad doctors are less capable ones.

This is only to a point at which it peaks and then the opposite is true. So "higher" is not the same as "high".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all know many colleges discriminate against Asians and whites. It is a liberal trend that current administration tries to revert. Not because they care about law, or fairness, but because they care about predominantly white maga base. What maga doesn't get is that with a pure merit based adminission, top schools like Yale or Harvard will be 80%+ Asian. And it is not because Asian kids are smarter but because they work harder being pushed most of the times by their families. That's the reality like it or not.

As someone who voted for Trump - not sure if that qualifies me as MAGA, I don’t care at all if 80% of admissions go to Asians assuming that it’s due to merit.

Why in the world do you think this would bother MAGA?

It sounds like you assume that the most selective schools in the country aren't admitted qualified applicants.

They have thousands of applicants with FLAWLESS academics applying, so they look at non-academic factors as well.

These people who assume that if you use non-academic factors, you must be admitted unqualified people are bonkers. Do you understand the size of these applicant pools. Step one is perfect academics.

The MCATs have not really been dumbed down like the SATs, the tails are pretty long and they are not very URM

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Right, like they don’t cheat to get in at all.

Princeton (1/3 Asian now) announced they’re introducing proctoring back into exams due to widespread cheating.

In UC Berkeley (40% Asian) the number of students who require extra time on tests has nearly quintupled over past 15 years.

Let’s see what school wants to have a grind culture with cut throat competition and cheating? That’s right, none of them.

Why are the terms within the parentheses "Asian"? Why not "Hispanic" or "Black" or "Human"? Are you insinuating something?

This is just how white supremacists cope with asian academic excellence. They tell themselves that the only reason asian kids do better than their kid is because the asian kids all cheat.

In reality, it’s the descendants of criminals and slave owners (aka the white people) who mostly likely to cheat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Right, like they don’t cheat to get in at all.

Princeton (1/3 Asian now) announced they’re introducing proctoring back into exams due to widespread cheating.

In UC Berkeley (40% Asian) the number of students who require extra time on tests has nearly quintupled over past 15 years.

Let’s see what school wants to have a grind culture with cut throat competition and cheating? That’s right, none of them.

Why are the terms within the parentheses "Asian"? Why not "Hispanic" or "Black" or "Human"? Are you insinuating something?

This is just how white supremacists cope with asian academic excellence. They tell themselves that the only reason asian kids do better than their kid is because the asian kids all cheat.

In reality, it’s the descendants of criminals and slave owners (aka the white people) who mostly likely to cheat.

In your fictional reality maybe.