Antizionism is not antisemitism/the current conflict

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If everyone planned on moving to one’s country of origin from 1000-2000 years ago, what a mess that would be. Is everyone living in Israel pure 100% Israeli? Like the Native Americans are here?

Huh? You are confusing this metaphor. Palestinian activists typically claim they are the true indigenous people of the land (like the Native Americans here). They claim that (like the USA), Israelis stole their land and kicked them out. Even accepting for argument’s sake that they are right, no American would tolerate Navajo nationalists blowing up buses and kidnapping civilians in Tucson in an effort to reclaim Arizona.

Ok so a simple dna test would prove who has ties to the land and who does not. If one has minimal to no ties they have no right kicking people off the land. Yes things like this have been done historically by the US, hundreds of years ago.

Ok cool so to be clear, your proposed solution is to DNA test every Israeli/American, and deport all those you consider to have insufficient middle eastern/Native American DNA. Sounds like a great, very non-eugenics-y plan!

If the argument is over who the land belongs to then yes, this is fair.

So you support your own deportation from the US, right? Or is Land Back something you care about just when Jews are involved? Btw a dna test will largely support Jews staying in Israel, but not you staying in the US.

No you are misunderstanding me. We are discussing why antizionism may exist. It’s like me claiming land in Europe belongs to me because my relatives immigrated from there.

That’s not what Israelis claim, for the most part. There has been a CONTINUOUS Jewish presence in Israel for 2000 years. And those Jews who immigrated to the land while it was still part of the British mandate (there was never a Palestinian state there), settled it, developed it, built whole cities on what used to be sand dunes, then gained official recognition as a state through formal international channels (the United Nations). Google “Tel Aviv 1909” for a picture of what it used to look like.

Atrocities were committed by both sides during/before the founding of the state, but people seem to think that a bunch of Jews just swooped in in 1948, shot a bunch of Arabs in the face and moved into their houses. That’s not how any of this went down.

Sure there's been a continuous presence Of Jews that are indigenous to the land. But that group is very different genetically and culturally from the predominantly Ashkenazi Jews settler colonists from Europe. To conflate the two is incredibly misleading.

They do it on purpose, so they can pretend Israel isn't just another white supremacist settler colonial project.

Explain, in detail, why you think Israel, a country that is 20% non-Jewish Arab and 32% Mizrahi (or to put it in words you can understand, “brown people”) is WHITE SUPREMACIST. That’s not even getting into the fact that the Ahskenazi Jewish population descends from holocaust survivors who were persecuted specifically for being non-white/aryan.

Please. I’ll wait.

What about the Romani people who also perished in the Holocaust? They have been forced to into nomadic life due to being kicked out if their homeland as well.

Yes, that’s also bad. What does the fact that Europeans have treated the Romani badly mean for Israel in 2025?

It’s just an analogous situation, if Jews are entitled to Israel, Romanis are entitled to part of Pakistan/India. I believe they are overlooked because they’re darker skinned individuals.

A plurality of Israeli Jews are also now darker-skinned individuals. It is an analogous situation, sure. Perhaps one day we can have endless pages of debate over a Romani state, too.

You’re very dismissive about Romanis, do you believe that a Romani state has a right to exist?

If a Romani state existed, even if it came into being through the seizure of land in Pakistan, then I would agree 80 years later that the state should continue to exist.

I’m not dismissive about Romanis, I just don’t see why you think your hypothetical question about them has any bearing on what I’m supposed to think about Israel today.

It’s very possible that in 1948, I would have opposed the establishment of the state of Israel, especially if I knew then what we all know now about how some of the early Zionist partisans conducted their attempt to build a country. But that’s also not really relevant to what to do about it now, either.

Lol so because it's done, Israel gets grandfathered in, but you admit it was wrong and shouldn't exist.

End the apartheid. Call it whatever you want, but end the apartheid.

What does that mean to you in practice? What does that actually look like?

It means let those people out of those ghettos you call Palestine. Give them full citizenship and voting rights. End the laws codifying Jewish supremacy in the country. Pay reparations to the people whose homes were stolen.

If Jews wanted to return to their homeland, no one was stopping them. The problem was stealing the country and trying to erase the people who lived there. It was wrong when the US did it, and it's wrong now.

Got it so you think Israel should let all 2 million Gazans, 70% of whom said October 7 was a good idea when polled, live within Israel’s borders. How do you think that’s going to go for Israelis? What incentive do they have to do that? If you were an Israeli, would you support that plan?

I think it's more like 1.5 million. Israel already exterminated around 400k in their genocide and pretty soon it'll be much more than that.

Hopefully not. Like many American Jews, I believe Israel should have ended the war in Gaza a long time ago. Perhaps now that Netanyahu owes the Trump administration for bombing Iran, the White House can push for immediate peace in Gaza and a return of the Israeli hostages.

I am baffled how and why you think Israel/Netanyahu gives one iota of a crap about the hostages. It's been very clear for a long time (and admitted in leaked documents) that they don't care. Getting the hostages back was never an interest - it would conflict with their other operational plans.

Rememeber - the was a ceasefire in place. It was working. And then remember who broke it.

It's also baffling that people don't look into or are uninterested in the details of how Israel/Netanyahu intentionally allowed the Hamas operation to occur unimpeded with full knowledge and sacrifice his own people so he could have a pretext to wipe out Gaza.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nonjews should just stay out of this, you will never be correct. Mind ya business and let em fend for themselves.

I mean yeah, that’s also an option. I think most Jews would welcome this frankly lol.

Sure they would welcome this…as long as they get to use our money and other resources as they please

Question: why do you think the US supports Israel? Is it because congress is owned by a shadowy cabal of Jews/AIPAC? Native American casinos spent around $22 million on lobbying last year, considerably more than AIPAC's $3.5 million. Qatar spent 41 times more on politics in the last 12 years than AIPAC has spent in its lifetime.

Or could it be because the US sees that supporting Israel is in its strategic/military interest? Because the Middle East is where all our oil comes from and Israel is the only stable pro-western democracy in the region?

The US isn’t supporting Israel out of the goodness of its heart - it’s getting plenty in return.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If everyone planned on moving to one’s country of origin from 1000-2000 years ago, what a mess that would be. Is everyone living in Israel pure 100% Israeli? Like the Native Americans are here?

Huh? You are confusing this metaphor. Palestinian activists typically claim they are the true indigenous people of the land (like the Native Americans here). They claim that (like the USA), Israelis stole their land and kicked them out. Even accepting for argument’s sake that they are right, no American would tolerate Navajo nationalists blowing up buses and kidnapping civilians in Tucson in an effort to reclaim Arizona.

Ok so a simple dna test would prove who has ties to the land and who does not. If one has minimal to no ties they have no right kicking people off the land. Yes things like this have been done historically by the US, hundreds of years ago.

Ok cool so to be clear, your proposed solution is to DNA test every Israeli/American, and deport all those you consider to have insufficient middle eastern/Native American DNA. Sounds like a great, very non-eugenics-y plan!

If the argument is over who the land belongs to then yes, this is fair.

So you support your own deportation from the US, right? Or is Land Back something you care about just when Jews are involved? Btw a dna test will largely support Jews staying in Israel, but not you staying in the US.

No you are misunderstanding me. We are discussing why antizionism may exist. It’s like me claiming land in Europe belongs to me because my relatives immigrated from there.

That’s not what Israelis claim, for the most part. There has been a CONTINUOUS Jewish presence in Israel for 2000 years. And those Jews who immigrated to the land while it was still part of the British mandate (there was never a Palestinian state there), settled it, developed it, built whole cities on what used to be sand dunes, then gained official recognition as a state through formal international channels (the United Nations). Google “Tel Aviv 1909” for a picture of what it used to look like.

Atrocities were committed by both sides during/before the founding of the state, but people seem to think that a bunch of Jews just swooped in in 1948, shot a bunch of Arabs in the face and moved into their houses. That’s not how any of this went down.

Sure there's been a continuous presence Of Jews that are indigenous to the land. But that group is very different genetically and culturally from the predominantly Ashkenazi Jews settler colonists from Europe. To conflate the two is incredibly misleading.

They do it on purpose, so they can pretend Israel isn't just another white supremacist settler colonial project.

Explain, in detail, why you think Israel, a country that is 20% non-Jewish Arab and 32% Mizrahi (or to put it in words you can understand, “brown people”) is WHITE SUPREMACIST. That’s not even getting into the fact that the Ahskenazi Jewish population descends from holocaust survivors who were persecuted specifically for being non-white/aryan.

Please. I’ll wait.

What about the Romani people who also perished in the Holocaust? They have been forced to into nomadic life due to being kicked out if their homeland as well.

Yes, that’s also bad. What does the fact that Europeans have treated the Romani badly mean for Israel in 2025?

It’s just an analogous situation, if Jews are entitled to Israel, Romanis are entitled to part of Pakistan/India. I believe they are overlooked because they’re darker skinned individuals.

A plurality of Israeli Jews are also now darker-skinned individuals. It is an analogous situation, sure. Perhaps one day we can have endless pages of debate over a Romani state, too.

You’re very dismissive about Romanis, do you believe that a Romani state has a right to exist?

If a Romani state existed, even if it came into being through the seizure of land in Pakistan, then I would agree 80 years later that the state should continue to exist.

I’m not dismissive about Romanis, I just don’t see why you think your hypothetical question about them has any bearing on what I’m supposed to think about Israel today.

It’s very possible that in 1948, I would have opposed the establishment of the state of Israel, especially if I knew then what we all know now about how some of the early Zionist partisans conducted their attempt to build a country. But that’s also not really relevant to what to do about it now, either.

Lol so because it's done, Israel gets grandfathered in, but you admit it was wrong and shouldn't exist.

End the apartheid. Call it whatever you want, but end the apartheid.

What does that mean to you in practice? What does that actually look like?

It means let those people out of those ghettos you call Palestine. Give them full citizenship and voting rights. End the laws codifying Jewish supremacy in the country. Pay reparations to the people whose homes were stolen.

If Jews wanted to return to their homeland, no one was stopping them. The problem was stealing the country and trying to erase the people who lived there. It was wrong when the US did it, and it's wrong now.

Got it so you think Israel should let all 2 million Gazans, 70% of whom said October 7 was a good idea when polled, live within Israel’s borders. How do you think that’s going to go for Israelis? What incentive do they have to do that? If you were an Israeli, would you support that plan?

I think it's more like 1.5 million. Israel already exterminated around 400k in their genocide and pretty soon it'll be much more than that.

Hopefully not. Like many American Jews, I believe Israel should have ended the war in Gaza a long time ago. Perhaps now that Netanyahu owes the Trump administration for bombing Iran, the White House can push for immediate peace in Gaza and a return of the Israeli hostages.

I am baffled how and why you think Israel/Netanyahu gives one iota of a crap about the hostages. It's been very clear for a long time (and admitted in leaked documents) that they don't care. Getting the hostages back was never an interest - it would conflict with their other operational plans.

Rememeber - the was a ceasefire in place. It was working. And then remember who broke it.

It's also baffling that people don't look into or are uninterested in the details of how Israel/Netanyahu intentionally allowed the Hamas operation to occur unimpeded with full knowledge and sacrifice his own people so he could have a pretext to wipe out Gaza.

This is an insane conspiracy theory, akin to “Bush caused 9/11” and even if you accept that it’s true - Netanyahu did not make Hamas perpetrate an absolute sadistic orgy of violence on Israeli citizens. They did that all on their own, and most Gazans supported them and continue to support them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If everyone planned on moving to one’s country of origin from 1000-2000 years ago, what a mess that would be. Is everyone living in Israel pure 100% Israeli? Like the Native Americans are here?

Huh? You are confusing this metaphor. Palestinian activists typically claim they are the true indigenous people of the land (like the Native Americans here). They claim that (like the USA), Israelis stole their land and kicked them out. Even accepting for argument’s sake that they are right, no American would tolerate Navajo nationalists blowing up buses and kidnapping civilians in Tucson in an effort to reclaim Arizona.

Ok so a simple dna test would prove who has ties to the land and who does not. If one has minimal to no ties they have no right kicking people off the land. Yes things like this have been done historically by the US, hundreds of years ago.

Ok cool so to be clear, your proposed solution is to DNA test every Israeli/American, and deport all those you consider to have insufficient middle eastern/Native American DNA. Sounds like a great, very non-eugenics-y plan!

If the argument is over who the land belongs to then yes, this is fair.

So you support your own deportation from the US, right? Or is Land Back something you care about just when Jews are involved? Btw a dna test will largely support Jews staying in Israel, but not you staying in the US.

No you are misunderstanding me. We are discussing why antizionism may exist. It’s like me claiming land in Europe belongs to me because my relatives immigrated from there.

That’s not what Israelis claim, for the most part. There has been a CONTINUOUS Jewish presence in Israel for 2000 years. And those Jews who immigrated to the land while it was still part of the British mandate (there was never a Palestinian state there), settled it, developed it, built whole cities on what used to be sand dunes, then gained official recognition as a state through formal international channels (the United Nations). Google “Tel Aviv 1909” for a picture of what it used to look like.

Atrocities were committed by both sides during/before the founding of the state, but people seem to think that a bunch of Jews just swooped in in 1948, shot a bunch of Arabs in the face and moved into their houses. That’s not how any of this went down.

Sure there's been a continuous presence Of Jews that are indigenous to the land. But that group is very different genetically and culturally from the predominantly Ashkenazi Jews settler colonists from Europe. To conflate the two is incredibly misleading.

They do it on purpose, so they can pretend Israel isn't just another white supremacist settler colonial project.

Explain, in detail, why you think Israel, a country that is 20% non-Jewish Arab and 32% Mizrahi (or to put it in words you can understand, “brown people”) is WHITE SUPREMACIST. That’s not even getting into the fact that the Ahskenazi Jewish population descends from holocaust survivors who were persecuted specifically for being non-white/aryan.

Please. I’ll wait.

What about the Romani people who also perished in the Holocaust? They have been forced to into nomadic life due to being kicked out if their homeland as well.

Yes, that’s also bad. What does the fact that Europeans have treated the Romani badly mean for Israel in 2025?

It’s just an analogous situation, if Jews are entitled to Israel, Romanis are entitled to part of Pakistan/India. I believe they are overlooked because they’re darker skinned individuals.

A plurality of Israeli Jews are also now darker-skinned individuals. It is an analogous situation, sure. Perhaps one day we can have endless pages of debate over a Romani state, too.

You’re very dismissive about Romanis, do you believe that a Romani state has a right to exist?

If a Romani state existed, even if it came into being through the seizure of land in Pakistan, then I would agree 80 years later that the state should continue to exist.

I’m not dismissive about Romanis, I just don’t see why you think your hypothetical question about them has any bearing on what I’m supposed to think about Israel today.

It’s very possible that in 1948, I would have opposed the establishment of the state of Israel, especially if I knew then what we all know now about how some of the early Zionist partisans conducted their attempt to build a country. But that’s also not really relevant to what to do about it now, either.

Lol so because it's done, Israel gets grandfathered in, but you admit it was wrong and shouldn't exist.

End the apartheid. Call it whatever you want, but end the apartheid.

What does that mean to you in practice? What does that actually look like?

It means let those people out of those ghettos you call Palestine. Give them full citizenship and voting rights. End the laws codifying Jewish supremacy in the country. Pay reparations to the people whose homes were stolen.

If Jews wanted to return to their homeland, no one was stopping them. The problem was stealing the country and trying to erase the people who lived there. It was wrong when the US did it, and it's wrong now.

Got it so you think Israel should let all 2 million Gazans, 70% of whom said October 7 was a good idea when polled, live within Israel’s borders. How do you think that’s going to go for Israelis? What incentive do they have to do that? If you were an Israeli, would you support that plan?

I think it's more like 1.5 million. Israel already exterminated around 400k in their genocide and pretty soon it'll be much more than that.

Hopefully not. Like many American Jews, I believe Israel should have ended the war in Gaza a long time ago. Perhaps now that Netanyahu owes the Trump administration for bombing Iran, the White House can push for immediate peace in Gaza and a return of the Israeli hostages.

I am baffled how and why you think Israel/Netanyahu gives one iota of a crap about the hostages. It's been very clear for a long time (and admitted in leaked documents) that they don't care. Getting the hostages back was never an interest - it would conflict with their other operational plans.

Rememeber - the was a ceasefire in place. It was working. And then remember who broke it.

It's also baffling that people don't look into or are uninterested in the details of how Israel/Netanyahu intentionally allowed the Hamas operation to occur unimpeded with full knowledge and sacrifice his own people so he could have a pretext to wipe out Gaza.

This is an insane conspiracy theory, akin to “Bush caused 9/11” and even if you accept that it’s true - Netanyahu did not make Hamas perpetrate an absolute sadistic orgy of violence on Israeli citizens. They did that all on their own, and most Gazans supported them and continue to support them.

How many times has Israel attacked its own people or its own allies to achieve its goals?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If everyone planned on moving to one’s country of origin from 1000-2000 years ago, what a mess that would be. Is everyone living in Israel pure 100% Israeli? Like the Native Americans are here?

Huh? You are confusing this metaphor. Palestinian activists typically claim they are the true indigenous people of the land (like the Native Americans here). They claim that (like the USA), Israelis stole their land and kicked them out. Even accepting for argument’s sake that they are right, no American would tolerate Navajo nationalists blowing up buses and kidnapping civilians in Tucson in an effort to reclaim Arizona.

Ok so a simple dna test would prove who has ties to the land and who does not. If one has minimal to no ties they have no right kicking people off the land. Yes things like this have been done historically by the US, hundreds of years ago.

Ok cool so to be clear, your proposed solution is to DNA test every Israeli/American, and deport all those you consider to have insufficient middle eastern/Native American DNA. Sounds like a great, very non-eugenics-y plan!

If the argument is over who the land belongs to then yes, this is fair.

So you support your own deportation from the US, right? Or is Land Back something you care about just when Jews are involved? Btw a dna test will largely support Jews staying in Israel, but not you staying in the US.

No you are misunderstanding me. We are discussing why antizionism may exist. It’s like me claiming land in Europe belongs to me because my relatives immigrated from there.

That’s not what Israelis claim, for the most part. There has been a CONTINUOUS Jewish presence in Israel for 2000 years. And those Jews who immigrated to the land while it was still part of the British mandate (there was never a Palestinian state there), settled it, developed it, built whole cities on what used to be sand dunes, then gained official recognition as a state through formal international channels (the United Nations). Google “Tel Aviv 1909” for a picture of what it used to look like.

Atrocities were committed by both sides during/before the founding of the state, but people seem to think that a bunch of Jews just swooped in in 1948, shot a bunch of Arabs in the face and moved into their houses. That’s not how any of this went down.

Sure there's been a continuous presence Of Jews that are indigenous to the land. But that group is very different genetically and culturally from the predominantly Ashkenazi Jews settler colonists from Europe. To conflate the two is incredibly misleading.

They do it on purpose, so they can pretend Israel isn't just another white supremacist settler colonial project.

Explain, in detail, why you think Israel, a country that is 20% non-Jewish Arab and 32% Mizrahi (or to put it in words you can understand, “brown people”) is WHITE SUPREMACIST. That’s not even getting into the fact that the Ahskenazi Jewish population descends from holocaust survivors who were persecuted specifically for being non-white/aryan.

Please. I’ll wait.

What about the Romani people who also perished in the Holocaust? They have been forced to into nomadic life due to being kicked out if their homeland as well.

Yes, that’s also bad. What does the fact that Europeans have treated the Romani badly mean for Israel in 2025?

It’s just an analogous situation, if Jews are entitled to Israel, Romanis are entitled to part of Pakistan/India. I believe they are overlooked because they’re darker skinned individuals.

A plurality of Israeli Jews are also now darker-skinned individuals. It is an analogous situation, sure. Perhaps one day we can have endless pages of debate over a Romani state, too.

You’re very dismissive about Romanis, do you believe that a Romani state has a right to exist?

If a Romani state existed, even if it came into being through the seizure of land in Pakistan, then I would agree 80 years later that the state should continue to exist.

I’m not dismissive about Romanis, I just don’t see why you think your hypothetical question about them has any bearing on what I’m supposed to think about Israel today.

It’s very possible that in 1948, I would have opposed the establishment of the state of Israel, especially if I knew then what we all know now about how some of the early Zionist partisans conducted their attempt to build a country. But that’s also not really relevant to what to do about it now, either.

Lol so because it's done, Israel gets grandfathered in, but you admit it was wrong and shouldn't exist.

End the apartheid. Call it whatever you want, but end the apartheid.

What does that mean to you in practice? What does that actually look like?

It means let those people out of those ghettos you call Palestine. Give them full citizenship and voting rights. End the laws codifying Jewish supremacy in the country. Pay reparations to the people whose homes were stolen.

If Jews wanted to return to their homeland, no one was stopping them. The problem was stealing the country and trying to erase the people who lived there. It was wrong when the US did it, and it's wrong now.

Got it so you think Israel should let all 2 million Gazans, 70% of whom said October 7 was a good idea when polled, live within Israel’s borders. How do you think that’s going to go for Israelis? What incentive do they have to do that? If you were an Israeli, would you support that plan?

I think it's more like 1.5 million. Israel already exterminated around 400k in their genocide and pretty soon it'll be much more than that.

Hopefully not. Like many American Jews, I believe Israel should have ended the war in Gaza a long time ago. Perhaps now that Netanyahu owes the Trump administration for bombing Iran, the White House can push for immediate peace in Gaza and a return of the Israeli hostages.

I am baffled how and why you think Israel/Netanyahu gives one iota of a crap about the hostages. It's been very clear for a long time (and admitted in leaked documents) that they don't care. Getting the hostages back was never an interest - it would conflict with their other operational plans.

Rememeber - the was a ceasefire in place. It was working. And then remember who broke it.

It's also baffling that people don't look into or are uninterested in the details of how Israel/Netanyahu intentionally allowed the Hamas operation to occur unimpeded with full knowledge and sacrifice his own people so he could have a pretext to wipe out Gaza.

This is an insane conspiracy theory, akin to “Bush caused 9/11” and even if you accept that it’s true - Netanyahu did not make Hamas perpetrate an absolute sadistic orgy of violence on Israeli citizens. They did that all on their own, and most Gazans supported them and continue to support them.

How many times has Israel attacked its own people or its own allies to achieve its goals?

I’m not aware of any times but I’m sure Al-Manar or Stormfront or wherever you’re getting your information could enlighten me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If everyone planned on moving to one’s country of origin from 1000-2000 years ago, what a mess that would be. Is everyone living in Israel pure 100% Israeli? Like the Native Americans are here?

Huh? You are confusing this metaphor. Palestinian activists typically claim they are the true indigenous people of the land (like the Native Americans here). They claim that (like the USA), Israelis stole their land and kicked them out. Even accepting for argument’s sake that they are right, no American would tolerate Navajo nationalists blowing up buses and kidnapping civilians in Tucson in an effort to reclaim Arizona.

Ok so a simple dna test would prove who has ties to the land and who does not. If one has minimal to no ties they have no right kicking people off the land. Yes things like this have been done historically by the US, hundreds of years ago.

Ok cool so to be clear, your proposed solution is to DNA test every Israeli/American, and deport all those you consider to have insufficient middle eastern/Native American DNA. Sounds like a great, very non-eugenics-y plan!

If the argument is over who the land belongs to then yes, this is fair.

So you support your own deportation from the US, right? Or is Land Back something you care about just when Jews are involved? Btw a dna test will largely support Jews staying in Israel, but not you staying in the US.

No you are misunderstanding me. We are discussing why antizionism may exist. It’s like me claiming land in Europe belongs to me because my relatives immigrated from there.

That’s not what Israelis claim, for the most part. There has been a CONTINUOUS Jewish presence in Israel for 2000 years. And those Jews who immigrated to the land while it was still part of the British mandate (there was never a Palestinian state there), settled it, developed it, built whole cities on what used to be sand dunes, then gained official recognition as a state through formal international channels (the United Nations). Google “Tel Aviv 1909” for a picture of what it used to look like.

Atrocities were committed by both sides during/before the founding of the state, but people seem to think that a bunch of Jews just swooped in in 1948, shot a bunch of Arabs in the face and moved into their houses. That’s not how any of this went down.

Sure there's been a continuous presence Of Jews that are indigenous to the land. But that group is very different genetically and culturally from the predominantly Ashkenazi Jews settler colonists from Europe. To conflate the two is incredibly misleading.

They do it on purpose, so they can pretend Israel isn't just another white supremacist settler colonial project.

Explain, in detail, why you think Israel, a country that is 20% non-Jewish Arab and 32% Mizrahi (or to put it in words you can understand, “brown people”) is WHITE SUPREMACIST. That’s not even getting into the fact that the Ahskenazi Jewish population descends from holocaust survivors who were persecuted specifically for being non-white/aryan.

Please. I’ll wait.

What about the Romani people who also perished in the Holocaust? They have been forced to into nomadic life due to being kicked out if their homeland as well.

Yes, that’s also bad. What does the fact that Europeans have treated the Romani badly mean for Israel in 2025?

It’s just an analogous situation, if Jews are entitled to Israel, Romanis are entitled to part of Pakistan/India. I believe they are overlooked because they’re darker skinned individuals.

A plurality of Israeli Jews are also now darker-skinned individuals. It is an analogous situation, sure. Perhaps one day we can have endless pages of debate over a Romani state, too.

You’re very dismissive about Romanis, do you believe that a Romani state has a right to exist?

If a Romani state existed, even if it came into being through the seizure of land in Pakistan, then I would agree 80 years later that the state should continue to exist.

I’m not dismissive about Romanis, I just don’t see why you think your hypothetical question about them has any bearing on what I’m supposed to think about Israel today.

It’s very possible that in 1948, I would have opposed the establishment of the state of Israel, especially if I knew then what we all know now about how some of the early Zionist partisans conducted their attempt to build a country. But that’s also not really relevant to what to do about it now, either.

Lol so because it's done, Israel gets grandfathered in, but you admit it was wrong and shouldn't exist.

End the apartheid. Call it whatever you want, but end the apartheid.

What does that mean to you in practice? What does that actually look like?

It means let those people out of those ghettos you call Palestine. Give them full citizenship and voting rights. End the laws codifying Jewish supremacy in the country. Pay reparations to the people whose homes were stolen.

If Jews wanted to return to their homeland, no one was stopping them. The problem was stealing the country and trying to erase the people who lived there. It was wrong when the US did it, and it's wrong now.

Got it so you think Israel should let all 2 million Gazans, 70% of whom said October 7 was a good idea when polled, live within Israel’s borders. How do you think that’s going to go for Israelis? What incentive do they have to do that? If you were an Israeli, would you support that plan?

I think it's more like 1.5 million. Israel already exterminated around 400k in their genocide and pretty soon it'll be much more than that.

Hopefully not. Like many American Jews, I believe Israel should have ended the war in Gaza a long time ago. Perhaps now that Netanyahu owes the Trump administration for bombing Iran, the White House can push for immediate peace in Gaza and a return of the Israeli hostages.

I am baffled how and why you think Israel/Netanyahu gives one iota of a crap about the hostages. It's been very clear for a long time (and admitted in leaked documents) that they don't care. Getting the hostages back was never an interest - it would conflict with their other operational plans.

Rememeber - the was a ceasefire in place. It was working. And then remember who broke it.

It's also baffling that people don't look into or are uninterested in the details of how Israel/Netanyahu intentionally allowed the Hamas operation to occur unimpeded with full knowledge and sacrifice his own people so he could have a pretext to wipe out Gaza.

This doesn’t really make sense even on its on terms. Why would he need a pretext to wipe out Gaza? If he’s willing to (a) deliberately allow more than 1,000 Israelis to be murdered and hundreds of hostages to be taken so he could (b) carry out a genocide, does he really seem like the kind of person who would bother with making sure he had an excuse for it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nonjews should just stay out of this, you will never be correct. Mind ya business and let em fend for themselves.

I mean yeah, that’s also an option. I think most Jews would welcome this frankly lol.

Sure they would welcome this…as long as they get to use our money and other resources as they please

Question: why do you think the US supports Israel? Is it because congress is owned by a shadowy cabal of Jews/AIPAC? Native American casinos spent around $22 million on lobbying last year, considerably more than AIPAC's $3.5 million. Qatar spent 41 times more on politics in the last 12 years than AIPAC has spent in its lifetime.

Or could it be because the US sees that supporting Israel is in its strategic/military interest? Because the Middle East is where all our oil comes from and Israel is the only stable pro-western democracy in the region?

The US isn’t supporting Israel out of the goodness of its heart - it’s getting plenty in return.

You're delusional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If everyone planned on moving to one’s country of origin from 1000-2000 years ago, what a mess that would be. Is everyone living in Israel pure 100% Israeli? Like the Native Americans are here?

Huh? You are confusing this metaphor. Palestinian activists typically claim they are the true indigenous people of the land (like the Native Americans here). They claim that (like the USA), Israelis stole their land and kicked them out. Even accepting for argument’s sake that they are right, no American would tolerate Navajo nationalists blowing up buses and kidnapping civilians in Tucson in an effort to reclaim Arizona.

Ok so a simple dna test would prove who has ties to the land and who does not. If one has minimal to no ties they have no right kicking people off the land. Yes things like this have been done historically by the US, hundreds of years ago.

Ok cool so to be clear, your proposed solution is to DNA test every Israeli/American, and deport all those you consider to have insufficient middle eastern/Native American DNA. Sounds like a great, very non-eugenics-y plan!

If the argument is over who the land belongs to then yes, this is fair.

So you support your own deportation from the US, right? Or is Land Back something you care about just when Jews are involved? Btw a dna test will largely support Jews staying in Israel, but not you staying in the US.

No you are misunderstanding me. We are discussing why antizionism may exist. It’s like me claiming land in Europe belongs to me because my relatives immigrated from there.

That’s not what Israelis claim, for the most part. There has been a CONTINUOUS Jewish presence in Israel for 2000 years. And those Jews who immigrated to the land while it was still part of the British mandate (there was never a Palestinian state there), settled it, developed it, built whole cities on what used to be sand dunes, then gained official recognition as a state through formal international channels (the United Nations). Google “Tel Aviv 1909” for a picture of what it used to look like.

Atrocities were committed by both sides during/before the founding of the state, but people seem to think that a bunch of Jews just swooped in in 1948, shot a bunch of Arabs in the face and moved into their houses. That’s not how any of this went down.

Sure there's been a continuous presence Of Jews that are indigenous to the land. But that group is very different genetically and culturally from the predominantly Ashkenazi Jews settler colonists from Europe. To conflate the two is incredibly misleading.

They do it on purpose, so they can pretend Israel isn't just another white supremacist settler colonial project.

Explain, in detail, why you think Israel, a country that is 20% non-Jewish Arab and 32% Mizrahi (or to put it in words you can understand, “brown people”) is WHITE SUPREMACIST. That’s not even getting into the fact that the Ahskenazi Jewish population descends from holocaust survivors who were persecuted specifically for being non-white/aryan.

Please. I’ll wait.

What about the Romani people who also perished in the Holocaust? They have been forced to into nomadic life due to being kicked out if their homeland as well.

Yes, that’s also bad. What does the fact that Europeans have treated the Romani badly mean for Israel in 2025?

It’s just an analogous situation, if Jews are entitled to Israel, Romanis are entitled to part of Pakistan/India. I believe they are overlooked because they’re darker skinned individuals.

A plurality of Israeli Jews are also now darker-skinned individuals. It is an analogous situation, sure. Perhaps one day we can have endless pages of debate over a Romani state, too.

You’re very dismissive about Romanis, do you believe that a Romani state has a right to exist?

If a Romani state existed, even if it came into being through the seizure of land in Pakistan, then I would agree 80 years later that the state should continue to exist.

I’m not dismissive about Romanis, I just don’t see why you think your hypothetical question about them has any bearing on what I’m supposed to think about Israel today.

It’s very possible that in 1948, I would have opposed the establishment of the state of Israel, especially if I knew then what we all know now about how some of the early Zionist partisans conducted their attempt to build a country. But that’s also not really relevant to what to do about it now, either.

Lol so because it's done, Israel gets grandfathered in, but you admit it was wrong and shouldn't exist.

End the apartheid. Call it whatever you want, but end the apartheid.

What does that mean to you in practice? What does that actually look like?

It means let those people out of those ghettos you call Palestine. Give them full citizenship and voting rights. End the laws codifying Jewish supremacy in the country. Pay reparations to the people whose homes were stolen.

If Jews wanted to return to their homeland, no one was stopping them. The problem was stealing the country and trying to erase the people who lived there. It was wrong when the US did it, and it's wrong now.

Got it so you think Israel should let all 2 million Gazans, 70% of whom said October 7 was a good idea when polled, live within Israel’s borders. How do you think that’s going to go for Israelis? What incentive do they have to do that? If you were an Israeli, would you support that plan?

I think it's more like 1.5 million. Israel already exterminated around 400k in their genocide and pretty soon it'll be much more than that.

Hopefully not. Like many American Jews, I believe Israel should have ended the war in Gaza a long time ago. Perhaps now that Netanyahu owes the Trump administration for bombing Iran, the White House can push for immediate peace in Gaza and a return of the Israeli hostages.

I am baffled how and why you think Israel/Netanyahu gives one iota of a crap about the hostages. It's been very clear for a long time (and admitted in leaked documents) that they don't care. Getting the hostages back was never an interest - it would conflict with their other operational plans.

Rememeber - the was a ceasefire in place. It was working. And then remember who broke it.

It's also baffling that people don't look into or are uninterested in the details of how Israel/Netanyahu intentionally allowed the Hamas operation to occur unimpeded with full knowledge and sacrifice his own people so he could have a pretext to wipe out Gaza.

This is an insane conspiracy theory, akin to “Bush caused 9/11” and even if you accept that it’s true - Netanyahu did not make Hamas perpetrate an absolute sadistic orgy of violence on Israeli citizens. They did that all on their own, and most Gazans supported them and continue to support them.

Hannibal directive is a thing in the IDF.

[Anonymous]

This claim to the land is at least partially religion based, many Jews are well read, educated people. Religion is fake, right? it’s fictional. Surely, smart Jews don’t actually believe this nonsense? Atheist jews don’t but still claim Israel as their homeland? And anyone can convert to Judaism and immigrate and then claim Israel as their homeland? Make this make sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If everyone planned on moving to one’s country of origin from 1000-2000 years ago, what a mess that would be. Is everyone living in Israel pure 100% Israeli? Like the Native Americans are here?

Huh? You are confusing this metaphor. Palestinian activists typically claim they are the true indigenous people of the land (like the Native Americans here). They claim that (like the USA), Israelis stole their land and kicked them out. Even accepting for argument’s sake that they are right, no American would tolerate Navajo nationalists blowing up buses and kidnapping civilians in Tucson in an effort to reclaim Arizona.

Ok so a simple dna test would prove who has ties to the land and who does not. If one has minimal to no ties they have no right kicking people off the land. Yes things like this have been done historically by the US, hundreds of years ago.

Ok cool so to be clear, your proposed solution is to DNA test every Israeli/American, and deport all those you consider to have insufficient middle eastern/Native American DNA. Sounds like a great, very non-eugenics-y plan!

If the argument is over who the land belongs to then yes, this is fair.

So you support your own deportation from the US, right? Or is Land Back something you care about just when Jews are involved? Btw a dna test will largely support Jews staying in Israel, but not you staying in the US.

No you are misunderstanding me. We are discussing why antizionism may exist. It’s like me claiming land in Europe belongs to me because my relatives immigrated from there.

That’s not what Israelis claim, for the most part. There has been a CONTINUOUS Jewish presence in Israel for 2000 years. And those Jews who immigrated to the land while it was still part of the British mandate (there was never a Palestinian state there), settled it, developed it, built whole cities on what used to be sand dunes, then gained official recognition as a state through formal international channels (the United Nations). Google “Tel Aviv 1909” for a picture of what it used to look like.

Atrocities were committed by both sides during/before the founding of the state, but people seem to think that a bunch of Jews just swooped in in 1948, shot a bunch of Arabs in the face and moved into their houses. That’s not how any of this went down.

Sure there's been a continuous presence Of Jews that are indigenous to the land. But that group is very different genetically and culturally from the predominantly Ashkenazi Jews settler colonists from Europe. To conflate the two is incredibly misleading.

They do it on purpose, so they can pretend Israel isn't just another white supremacist settler colonial project.

Explain, in detail, why you think Israel, a country that is 20% non-Jewish Arab and 32% Mizrahi (or to put it in words you can understand, “brown people”) is WHITE SUPREMACIST. That’s not even getting into the fact that the Ahskenazi Jewish population descends from holocaust survivors who were persecuted specifically for being non-white/aryan.

Please. I’ll wait.

What about the Romani people who also perished in the Holocaust? They have been forced to into nomadic life due to being kicked out if their homeland as well.

Yes, that’s also bad. What does the fact that Europeans have treated the Romani badly mean for Israel in 2025?

It’s just an analogous situation, if Jews are entitled to Israel, Romanis are entitled to part of Pakistan/India. I believe they are overlooked because they’re darker skinned individuals.

A plurality of Israeli Jews are also now darker-skinned individuals. It is an analogous situation, sure. Perhaps one day we can have endless pages of debate over a Romani state, too.

You’re very dismissive about Romanis, do you believe that a Romani state has a right to exist?

If a Romani state existed, even if it came into being through the seizure of land in Pakistan, then I would agree 80 years later that the state should continue to exist.

I’m not dismissive about Romanis, I just don’t see why you think your hypothetical question about them has any bearing on what I’m supposed to think about Israel today.

It’s very possible that in 1948, I would have opposed the establishment of the state of Israel, especially if I knew then what we all know now about how some of the early Zionist partisans conducted their attempt to build a country. But that’s also not really relevant to what to do about it now, either.

Lol so because it's done, Israel gets grandfathered in, but you admit it was wrong and shouldn't exist.

End the apartheid. Call it whatever you want, but end the apartheid.

What does that mean to you in practice? What does that actually look like?

It means let those people out of those ghettos you call Palestine. Give them full citizenship and voting rights. End the laws codifying Jewish supremacy in the country. Pay reparations to the people whose homes were stolen.

If Jews wanted to return to their homeland, no one was stopping them. The problem was stealing the country and trying to erase the people who lived there. It was wrong when the US did it, and it's wrong now.

Got it so you think Israel should let all 2 million Gazans, 70% of whom said October 7 was a good idea when polled, live within Israel’s borders. How do you think that’s going to go for Israelis? What incentive do they have to do that? If you were an Israeli, would you support that plan?

I think it's more like 1.5 million. Israel already exterminated around 400k in their genocide and pretty soon it'll be much more than that.

Hopefully not. Like many American Jews, I believe Israel should have ended the war in Gaza a long time ago. Perhaps now that Netanyahu owes the Trump administration for bombing Iran, the White House can push for immediate peace in Gaza and a return of the Israeli hostages.

I am baffled how and why you think Israel/Netanyahu gives one iota of a crap about the hostages. It's been very clear for a long time (and admitted in leaked documents) that they don't care. Getting the hostages back was never an interest - it would conflict with their other operational plans.

Rememeber - the was a ceasefire in place. It was working. And then remember who broke it.

It's also baffling that people don't look into or are uninterested in the details of how Israel/Netanyahu intentionally allowed the Hamas operation to occur unimpeded with full knowledge and sacrifice his own people so he could have a pretext to wipe out Gaza.

This is an insane conspiracy theory, akin to “Bush caused 9/11” and even if you accept that it’s true - Netanyahu did not make Hamas perpetrate an absolute sadistic orgy of violence on Israeli citizens. They did that all on their own, and most Gazans supported them and continue to support them.

Hannibal directive is a thing in the IDF.

Exactly, when a government has a defined protocol to kill its own people that involved apache helicopters and tanks, maybe one should reconsider how expendable their own citizens are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This claim to the land is at least partially religion based, many Jews are well read, educated people. Religion is fake, right? it’s fictional. Surely, smart Jews don’t actually believe this nonsense? Atheist jews don’t but still claim Israel as their homeland? And anyone can convert to Judaism and immigrate and then claim Israel as their homeland? Make this make sense.

+100

From a previous post: All Jews trace their lineage back to Israel at some point in their history. It’s where the Old Testament, the basis of their whole religion, took place.

I don't think this specific reason alone was a valid justification for giving/allowing Jews back their "land" to create the state of Israel. But what's done is done. Again, that ship has sailed.

The bigger mistake was the UN not taking control of the situation -- no accountability of what Israel did in the following years. Another mistake was the UN maintaining control of Jerusalem.

Honestly....the UN had two bickering children back in 1947. They should have stepped up and ensured that their two kids learned (forcefully if need be) to play well together.

Another mistake was countries (looking at the US here mainly) continuing through the decades in taking the side of Israel during all conflicts without questioning it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If everyone planned on moving to one’s country of origin from 1000-2000 years ago, what a mess that would be. Is everyone living in Israel pure 100% Israeli? Like the Native Americans are here?

Huh? You are confusing this metaphor. Palestinian activists typically claim they are the true indigenous people of the land (like the Native Americans here). They claim that (like the USA), Israelis stole their land and kicked them out. Even accepting for argument’s sake that they are right, no American would tolerate Navajo nationalists blowing up buses and kidnapping civilians in Tucson in an effort to reclaim Arizona.

Ok so a simple dna test would prove who has ties to the land and who does not. If one has minimal to no ties they have no right kicking people off the land. Yes things like this have been done historically by the US, hundreds of years ago.

Ok cool so to be clear, your proposed solution is to DNA test every Israeli/American, and deport all those you consider to have insufficient middle eastern/Native American DNA. Sounds like a great, very non-eugenics-y plan!

If the argument is over who the land belongs to then yes, this is fair.

So you support your own deportation from the US, right? Or is Land Back something you care about just when Jews are involved? Btw a dna test will largely support Jews staying in Israel, but not you staying in the US.

No you are misunderstanding me. We are discussing why antizionism may exist. It’s like me claiming land in Europe belongs to me because my relatives immigrated from there.

That’s not what Israelis claim, for the most part. There has been a CONTINUOUS Jewish presence in Israel for 2000 years. And those Jews who immigrated to the land while it was still part of the British mandate (there was never a Palestinian state there), settled it, developed it, built whole cities on what used to be sand dunes, then gained official recognition as a state through formal international channels (the United Nations). Google “Tel Aviv 1909” for a picture of what it used to look like.

Atrocities were committed by both sides during/before the founding of the state, but people seem to think that a bunch of Jews just swooped in in 1948, shot a bunch of Arabs in the face and moved into their houses. That’s not how any of this went down.

Sure there's been a continuous presence Of Jews that are indigenous to the land. But that group is very different genetically and culturally from the predominantly Ashkenazi Jews settler colonists from Europe. To conflate the two is incredibly misleading.

They do it on purpose, so they can pretend Israel isn't just another white supremacist settler colonial project.

Explain, in detail, why you think Israel, a country that is 20% non-Jewish Arab and 32% Mizrahi (or to put it in words you can understand, “brown people”) is WHITE SUPREMACIST. That’s not even getting into the fact that the Ahskenazi Jewish population descends from holocaust survivors who were persecuted specifically for being non-white/aryan.

Please. I’ll wait.

What about the Romani people who also perished in the Holocaust? They have been forced to into nomadic life due to being kicked out if their homeland as well.

Yes, that’s also bad. What does the fact that Europeans have treated the Romani badly mean for Israel in 2025?

It’s just an analogous situation, if Jews are entitled to Israel, Romanis are entitled to part of Pakistan/India. I believe they are overlooked because they’re darker skinned individuals.

A plurality of Israeli Jews are also now darker-skinned individuals. It is an analogous situation, sure. Perhaps one day we can have endless pages of debate over a Romani state, too.

You’re very dismissive about Romanis, do you believe that a Romani state has a right to exist?

If a Romani state existed, even if it came into being through the seizure of land in Pakistan, then I would agree 80 years later that the state should continue to exist.

I’m not dismissive about Romanis, I just don’t see why you think your hypothetical question about them has any bearing on what I’m supposed to think about Israel today.

It’s very possible that in 1948, I would have opposed the establishment of the state of Israel, especially if I knew then what we all know now about how some of the early Zionist partisans conducted their attempt to build a country. But that’s also not really relevant to what to do about it now, either.

Lol so because it's done, Israel gets grandfathered in, but you admit it was wrong and shouldn't exist.

End the apartheid. Call it whatever you want, but end the apartheid.

What does that mean to you in practice? What does that actually look like?

It means let those people out of those ghettos you call Palestine. Give them full citizenship and voting rights. End the laws codifying Jewish supremacy in the country. Pay reparations to the people whose homes were stolen.

If Jews wanted to return to their homeland, no one was stopping them. The problem was stealing the country and trying to erase the people who lived there. It was wrong when the US did it, and it's wrong now.

Got it so you think Israel should let all 2 million Gazans, 70% of whom said October 7 was a good idea when polled, live within Israel’s borders. How do you think that’s going to go for Israelis? What incentive do they have to do that? If you were an Israeli, would you support that plan?

I think it's more like 1.5 million. Israel already exterminated around 400k in their genocide and pretty soon it'll be much more than that.

Hopefully not. Like many American Jews, I believe Israel should have ended the war in Gaza a long time ago. Perhaps now that Netanyahu owes the Trump administration for bombing Iran, the White House can push for immediate peace in Gaza and a return of the Israeli hostages.

I am baffled how and why you think Israel/Netanyahu gives one iota of a crap about the hostages. It's been very clear for a long time (and admitted in leaked documents) that they don't care. Getting the hostages back was never an interest - it would conflict with their other operational plans.

Rememeber - the was a ceasefire in place. It was working. And then remember who broke it.

It's also baffling that people don't look into or are uninterested in the details of how Israel/Netanyahu intentionally allowed the Hamas operation to occur unimpeded with full knowledge and sacrifice his own people so he could have a pretext to wipe out Gaza.

This is an insane conspiracy theory, akin to “Bush caused 9/11” and even if you accept that it’s true - Netanyahu did not make Hamas perpetrate an absolute sadistic orgy of violence on Israeli citizens. They did that all on their own, and most Gazans supported them and continue to support them.

Hannibal directive is a thing in the IDF.

Exactly, when a government has a defined protocol to kill its own people that involved apache helicopters and tanks, maybe one should reconsider how expendable their own citizens are.

The whole point of that directive is to avoid the prospect of Israeli soldiers being taken hostage, because up until this government, the country has been willing to make almost any deal to free hostages. How would it make sense for them to deliberately kill or allow Israeli civilians and soldiers to be killed but also let several hundred people be taken captive? And, again, why would Netanyahu, who everyone agrees is a morally bankrupt monster, need to have a pretext to invade Gaza?

Why does he have to be an evil mastermind, when it seems fairly obvious that he’s actually an evil moron?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This claim to the land is at least partially religion based, many Jews are well read, educated people. Religion is fake, right? it’s fictional. Surely, smart Jews don’t actually believe this nonsense? Atheist jews don’t but still claim Israel as their homeland? And anyone can convert to Judaism and immigrate and then claim Israel as their homeland? Make this make sense.

+100

From a previous post: All Jews trace their lineage back to Israel at some point in their history. It’s where the Old Testament, the basis of their whole religion, took place.

I don't think this specific reason alone was a valid justification for giving/allowing Jews back their "land" to create the state of Israel. But what's done is done. Again, that ship has sailed.

The bigger mistake was the UN not taking control of the situation -- no accountability of what Israel did in the following years. Another mistake was the UN maintaining control of Jerusalem.

Honestly....the UN had two bickering children back in 1947. They should have stepped up and ensured that their two kids learned (forcefully if need be) to play well together.

Another mistake was countries (looking at the US here mainly) continuing through the decades in taking the side of Israel during all conflicts without questioning it.

“The old will die and the young will forget.” The mantra of the founder of Israel, David Ben-Gurion

This was true about Palestinian refugees and will become true about Gaza and the West Bank after that and then greater Israel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This claim to the land is at least partially religion based, many Jews are well read, educated people. Religion is fake, right? it’s fictional. Surely, smart Jews don’t actually believe this nonsense? Atheist jews don’t but still claim Israel as their homeland? And anyone can convert to Judaism and immigrate and then claim Israel as their homeland? Make this make sense.

Jews have historical, religious, cultural, linguistic, etc. ties to the land, and beyond that, they actually moved there, settled the land, and did the work necessary to establish a state. Religion is one element of it but very few Zionists/Israelis claim they have a right to the land solely because their religion says so (with the exception of people on the fringe religious right). Atheist Jews have historically been persecuted just like other Jews, so have found refuge in Israel just like their religious counterparts.

Also, what do you mean by “claim Israel as their homeland”? If you mean in a religious sense then sure, converts to Judaism can claim Israel as their religious homeland the same way converts to Islam can claim Mecca. If you’re asking whether converts can automatically be considered Israeli citizens then no, of course not. They would have to go through the formal Immigration process just like everyone else. Whether they would get some kind of preference over non-Jews in that process I don’t know, but if so, why would you consider that a problem? All countries have preferences when it comes to immigration (some ethnic, some religious, some financial, etc.) Given that Israel was specifically founded as a refuge for Jews fleeing persecution, and converts could certainly fall into this category, that type of immigration preference wouldn’t seem outlandish to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nonjews should just stay out of this, you will never be correct. Mind ya business and let em fend for themselves.

I mean yeah, that’s also an option. I think most Jews would welcome this frankly lol.

Sure they would welcome this…as long as they get to use our money and other resources as they please

Question: why do you think the US supports Israel? Is it because congress is owned by a shadowy cabal of Jews/AIPAC? Native American casinos spent around $22 million on lobbying last year, considerably more than AIPAC's $3.5 million. Qatar spent 41 times more on politics in the last 12 years than AIPAC has spent in its lifetime.

Or could it be because the US sees that supporting Israel is in its strategic/military interest? Because the Middle East is where all our oil comes from and Israel is the only stable pro-western democracy in the region?

The US isn’t supporting Israel out of the goodness of its heart - it’s getting plenty in return.

You're delusional.

Explain why. Genuinely, I’d like to know.