Why is $275k hhi now so poor?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop blowing smoke up my arse trying to claim $275k hhi is just fine and dandy these days. It is not. We are friggin dinks with virtually no debt except our mortgage on a very modest $625k home. We rake in $275k and are super middle class, it’s insane. Right now driving an 8 year old cheap Mazda 3 bought for $20k snd is paid off. I dread the day we need a new car, because a new car payment will place huge strain on our finances. I think we can only afford a Toyota sedan next. You’d think dinks making almost $300k could afford an Audi these days, but nope. Car insurance, home insurance, taxes, groceries……all of it demolishes you. We only take 1 vacation too per year.

Ok, we might tread water, I’ll give you that. But we aren’t THRIVING. I feel like you’ll only thrive on a $500k income these days. And that’s only from a DINK perspective! I dunno how everyone else who is poorer AND has kids survives. You all survive on malk and beans? Who knew the American dream for family people meant a life of brittle bones and cutting coupons, lol. Prices are so outta control. It is bonkers.

LOL-
Post your expenses and I’ll show you where to cut down.

I make 150k as a single. I live in a decent townhouse and drive a six year old Japanese midrange car. I don't worry about bills and shop at Whole Foods without sweating over every penny. But it is also not an extravagant life. That couple is making 275k, which is basically two of me. I do know exactly where they are coming from. They live comfortably but it's not fancy nor extravagant.

[Anonymous]

It is not poor.

[Anonymous]

Yes, show us your expenses and we’ll tell you how to live like a king. Clean your own house, cut your own lawn, stop streaming multiple services, stop it with the daily Starbucks. Bring your lunch.

What kind of car do you drive? Do you vape? Are you getting a new phone every year?

Stop keeping up with the Jones’s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with OP I’m clipping freaking coupons to afford groceries.

Really? We have two kids in travel sports, take nice vacations, and easily save for college/retirement on that income.

Because you live within your means. More people should try it.

+1

Truth!

[Anonymous]

This thread shows where the next recession is coming from.

If $275k is poor, imagine how the families making under $100k are feeling. Credit card debt creeping up, phantom BNPL loans, etc…

We make around $275k and definitely don’t feel like we have as much as we did in 2019, when our HHI was slightly less. We’ve cut out fast food for the kids, as McDonalds is even too expensive for our HHI. Or put another way, yes we can afford it, but why spend $40 for fast food for a family of 5?

But yes, the next recession will be caused by inflation and people eating out and spending less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t imagine how rich I would feel at $275k and no kids.

You’re doing something wrong if you feel poor.

same! we have one kid and HHI of 125k and feel comfortable. I mean no luxuries, etc. but if we had 275 I think we'd be doing a happy dance.

They are "living above their means". Obviously plenty of people live with 125K/150K and are comfortable.

They could be too. They likely were at that level at some point, and as income changed, they choose to put all increases into their new lifestyle, rather than saving 50-60%

Why do you think that everyone in the world would feel more "comfortable" seeing a higher number in their bank/vanguard account than actually using the money to improve their quality of life (i.e., living in a more expensive apartment that's closer to the metro and with amenities in the building so you don't have to run around all day to do your errands)? If I take your premise to the logical extreme, we would all be happier living in the street so that we can invest the money saved from no longer paying rent. I severely doubt anyone would take that offer.

I also severely doubt that people who are spending nearly all of their 275K income on living expenses somehow completely mismanage the money such that they had 0 experiences that were worthwhile and they would have had the exact same level of happiness if they only lived on half of that income. Sure, you might personally prefer to have the money in the bank than to spend it, because you get a high every time you see the numbers go up in your bank account, but not everyone's goal is to have a mountain full of money that they don't spend.

The issue is OP seems to be unable to live on 275K -- not that they prefer not to save.

I guess I'm not reading OP's post this way. I didn't see any indication that OP was going into debt to finance their 275K lifestyle. I do, however, see OP's complaining that 275K doesn't go very far and that they're disappointed that a 275K HHI is only giving them a middle-class lifestyle. Everyone who's telling them that they're not saving enough only adds credence to OP's complaint -- apparently the way they live (which they already find inadequate) is actually too extravagant for the rest of DCUM.

It's true $275K today is not the same as $275K 10 years ago. However, more than likely OP would not have been earning $275K 10 years ago.

Op wants 2010 prices with a 2023/24 wages. It doesn't work that way.

Also, I bet OP is living an UMC not a MC lifestyle. I think some people have a warped sense of what a MC lifestyle is.

I'm increasingly thinking this is actually a defining hallmark of the UMC - insecurity due to thinking incredible luxuries for most people are "baseline MC." Like you are in poverty if you're not maxing out retirement accounts while being able to pay for private college and vacationing overseas every OTHER year (I mean they're not extravagant, we're not talking annual trips).

[Anonymous]

Huh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t imagine how rich I would feel at $275k and no kids.

You’re doing something wrong if you feel poor.

same! we have one kid and HHI of 125k and feel comfortable. I mean no luxuries, etc. but if we had 275 I think we'd be doing a happy dance.

They are "living above their means". Obviously plenty of people live with 125K/150K and are comfortable.

They could be too. They likely were at that level at some point, and as income changed, they choose to put all increases into their new lifestyle, rather than saving 50-60%

Why do you think that everyone in the world would feel more "comfortable" seeing a higher number in their bank/vanguard account than actually using the money to improve their quality of life (i.e., living in a more expensive apartment that's closer to the metro and with amenities in the building so you don't have to run around all day to do your errands)? If I take your premise to the logical extreme, we would all be happier living in the street so that we can invest the money saved from no longer paying rent. I severely doubt anyone would take that offer.

I also severely doubt that people who are spending nearly all of their 275K income on living expenses somehow completely mismanage the money such that they had 0 experiences that were worthwhile and they would have had the exact same level of happiness if they only lived on half of that income. Sure, you might personally prefer to have the money in the bank than to spend it, because you get a high every time you see the numbers go up in your bank account, but not everyone's goal is to have a mountain full of money that they don't spend.

The issue is OP seems to be unable to live on 275K -- not that they prefer not to save.

I guess I'm not reading OP's post this way. I didn't see any indication that OP was going into debt to finance their 275K lifestyle. I do, however, see OP's complaining that 275K doesn't go very far and that they're disappointed that a 275K HHI is only giving them a middle-class lifestyle. Everyone who's telling them that they're not saving enough only adds credence to OP's complaint -- apparently the way they live (which they already find inadequate) is actually too extravagant for the rest of DCUM.

It's true $275K today is not the same as $275K 10 years ago. However, more than likely OP would not have been earning $275K 10 years ago.

Op wants 2010 prices with a 2023/24 wages. It doesn't work that way.

Also, I bet OP is living an UMC not a MC lifestyle. I think some people have a warped sense of what a MC lifestyle is.

I'm increasingly thinking this is actually a defining hallmark of the UMC - insecurity due to thinking incredible luxuries for most people are "baseline MC." Like you are in poverty if you're not maxing out retirement accounts while being able to pay for private college and vacationing overseas every OTHER year (I mean they're not extravagant, we're not talking annual trips).

Are you saying that maxing out retirement accounts and paying for private college while vacationing very other year *isn’t* UMC? Because that’s practically the definition of UMC—except maybe the vacationing. You can drive an older non-luxury car, but sending your kids to a good school (either bc you live in a SFH in the good district or bc you (or grandparents) are paying for private), and maxing retirement accounts is like the minimum entry criteria.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread shows where the next recession is coming from.

If $275k is poor, imagine how the families making under $100k are feeling. Credit card debt creeping up, phantom BNPL loans, etc…

We make around $275k and definitely don’t feel like we have as much as we did in 2019, when our HHI was slightly less. We’ve cut out fast food for the kids, as McDonalds is even too expensive for our HHI. Or put another way, yes we can afford it, but why spend $40 for fast food for a family of 5?

But yes, the next recession will be caused by inflation and people eating out and spending less.

Yup. $275k is treading water. Those making $150k or below are borderline poverty to lower middle class.

Went to the store yesterday for some simple snacks for movie night at the house. $48 for some bull crap at the store that was basically some chips, popcorn, and soft drinks. You can't even buy a week of groceries anymore for $150 unless you're eating trash and rice and beans everyday.

The American dream is dead and most of the country is just treading or already drowning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread shows where the next recession is coming from.

If $275k is poor, imagine how the families making under $100k are feeling. Credit card debt creeping up, phantom BNPL loans, etc…

We make around $275k and definitely don’t feel like we have as much as we did in 2019, when our HHI was slightly less. We’ve cut out fast food for the kids, as McDonalds is even too expensive for our HHI. Or put another way, yes we can afford it, but why spend $40 for fast food for a family of 5?

But yes, the next recession will be caused by inflation and people eating out and spending less.

Yup. $275k is treading water. Those making $150k or below are borderline poverty to lower middle class.

Went to the store yesterday for some simple snacks for movie night at the house. $48 for some bull crap at the store that was basically some chips, popcorn, and soft drinks. You can't even buy a week of groceries anymore for $150 unless you're eating trash and rice and beans everyday.

The American dream is dead and most of the country is just treading or already drowning.

My working class brother makes 40k a year, is a renter, and does not feel poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread shows where the next recession is coming from.

If $275k is poor, imagine how the families making under $100k are feeling. Credit card debt creeping up, phantom BNPL loans, etc…

We make around $275k and definitely don’t feel like we have as much as we did in 2019, when our HHI was slightly less. We’ve cut out fast food for the kids, as McDonalds is even too expensive for our HHI. Or put another way, yes we can afford it, but why spend $40 for fast food for a family of 5?

But yes, the next recession will be caused by inflation and people eating out and spending less.

Yup. $275k is treading water. Those making $150k or below are borderline poverty to lower middle class.

Went to the store yesterday for some simple snacks for movie night at the house. $48 for some bull crap at the store that was basically some chips, popcorn, and soft drinks. You can't even buy a week of groceries anymore for $150 unless you're eating trash and rice and beans everyday.

The American dream is dead and most of the country is just treading or already drowning.

My working class brother makes 40k a year, is a renter, and does not feel poor.

Sure he doesn't

I mean maybe he doesn't feel poor, you could be correct. There are probably people out there who are poor and who don't want to admit it. He's saving bread crumbs for retirement and would probably have to use credit cards for an emergency. Admit it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread shows where the next recession is coming from.

If $275k is poor, imagine how the families making under $100k are feeling. Credit card debt creeping up, phantom BNPL loans, etc…

We make around $275k and definitely don’t feel like we have as much as we did in 2019, when our HHI was slightly less. We’ve cut out fast food for the kids, as McDonalds is even too expensive for our HHI. Or put another way, yes we can afford it, but why spend $40 for fast food for a family of 5?

But yes, the next recession will be caused by inflation and people eating out and spending less.

Yup. $275k is treading water. Those making $150k or below are borderline poverty to lower middle class.

Went to the store yesterday for some simple snacks for movie night at the house. $48 for some bull crap at the store that was basically some chips, popcorn, and soft drinks. You can't even buy a week of groceries anymore for $150 unless you're eating trash and rice and beans everyday.

The American dream is dead and most of the country is just treading or already drowning.

I’m the PP you’re replying to.

I wouldn’t say $275k is treading water, but how effective that income is really depends on when you bought your house.

For us, we bought in 2014 and refinanced during the recent boom. Our mortgage is only $1600 a month. $275k is more than enough, though not as much as it used to be. We are saving for retirement, saving in 529s, brokerages, etc. We just have to be more aware of where our money goes since there are so many traps these days.

If you bought your house in 2023, $275k is a different beast.

Inflation sucks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread shows where the next recession is coming from.

If $275k is poor, imagine how the families making under $100k are feeling. Credit card debt creeping up, phantom BNPL loans, etc…

We make around $275k and definitely don’t feel like we have as much as we did in 2019, when our HHI was slightly less. We’ve cut out fast food for the kids, as McDonalds is even too expensive for our HHI. Or put another way, yes we can afford it, but why spend $40 for fast food for a family of 5?

But yes, the next recession will be caused by inflation and people eating out and spending less.

Yup. $275k is treading water. Those making $150k or below are borderline poverty to lower middle class.

Went to the store yesterday for some simple snacks for movie night at the house. $48 for some bull crap at the store that was basically some chips, popcorn, and soft drinks. You can't even buy a week of groceries anymore for $150 unless you're eating trash and rice and beans everyday.

The American dream is dead and most of the country is just treading or already drowning.

I’m the PP you’re replying to.

I wouldn’t say $275k is treading water, but how effective that income is really depends on when you bought your house.

For us, we bought in 2014 and refinanced during the recent boom. Our mortgage is only $1600 a month. $275k is more than enough, though not as much as it used to be. We are saving for retirement, saving in 529s, brokerages, etc. We just have to be more aware of where our money goes since there are so many traps these days.

If you bought your house in 2023, $275k is a different beast.

Inflation sucks.

Exactly, it's a lot easier to say $275k per year is enough when you had the privilege of locking in cheap housing years ago and then on top of that were given another golden ticket of refinancing to sub 3% interest rates. For many young people, $275k is barely treading water wages because housing has doubled to tripled in price while interest rates are now 6+%.

$275k isn't such a nice income if your mortgage went from $1600 to now $4000+ per month for the same house, now would it?

$275k is crap income now that barely treads water.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop blowing smoke up my arse trying to claim $275k hhi is just fine and dandy these days. It is not. We are friggin dinks with virtually no debt except our mortgage on a very modest $625k home. We rake in $275k and are super middle class, it’s insane. Right now driving an 8 year old cheap Mazda 3 bought for $20k snd is paid off. I dread the day we need a new car, because a new car payment will place huge strain on our finances. I think we can only afford a Toyota sedan next. You’d think dinks making almost $300k could afford an Audi these days, but nope. Car insurance, home insurance, taxes, groceries……all of it demolishes you. We only take 1 vacation too per year.

Ok, we might tread water, I’ll give you that. But we aren’t THRIVING. I feel like you’ll only thrive on a $500k income these days. And that’s only from a DINK perspective! I dunno how everyone else who is poorer AND has kids survives. You all survive on malk and beans? Who knew the American dream for family people meant a life of brittle bones and cutting coupons, lol. Prices are so outta control. It is bonkers.

LOL-
Post your expenses and I’ll show you where to cut down.

I make 150k as a single. I live in a decent townhouse and drive a six year old Japanese midrange car. I don't worry about bills and shop at Whole Foods without sweating over every penny. But it is also not an extravagant life. That couple is making 275k, which is basically two of me. I do know exactly where they are coming from. They live comfortably but it's not fancy nor extravagant.

But that "couple" can live in the same "decent townhouse" as you but with double the income. All expenses for the home are basically the same for 1-2 people. If you are saving $20K/year, they can save $40K with the same ease. If they plan/budget they can live well, not just comfortably. Average income DCUM is $75-80K. The are 4x that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop blowing smoke up my arse trying to claim $275k hhi is just fine and dandy these days. It is not. We are friggin dinks with virtually no debt except our mortgage on a very modest $625k home. We rake in $275k and are super middle class, it’s insane. Right now driving an 8 year old cheap Mazda 3 bought for $20k snd is paid off. I dread the day we need a new car, because a new car payment will place huge strain on our finances. I think we can only afford a Toyota sedan next. You’d think dinks making almost $300k could afford an Audi these days, but nope. Car insurance, home insurance, taxes, groceries……all of it demolishes you. We only take 1 vacation too per year.

Ok, we might tread water, I’ll give you that. But we aren’t THRIVING. I feel like you’ll only thrive on a $500k income these days. And that’s only from a DINK perspective! I dunno how everyone else who is poorer AND has kids survives. You all survive on malk and beans? Who knew the American dream for family people meant a life of brittle bones and cutting coupons, lol. Prices are so outta control. It is bonkers.

LOL-
Post your expenses and I’ll show you where to cut down.

I make 150k as a single. I live in a decent townhouse and drive a six year old Japanese midrange car. I don't worry about bills and shop at Whole Foods without sweating over every penny. But it is also not an extravagant life. That couple is making 275k, which is basically two of me. I do know exactly where they are coming from. They live comfortably but it's not fancy nor extravagant.

But that "couple" can live in the same "decent townhouse" as you but with double the income. All expenses for the home are basically the same for 1-2 people. If you are saving $20K/year, they can save $40K with the same ease. If they plan/budget they can live well, not just comfortably. Average income DCUM is $75-80K. The are 4x that.

Depends on when you bought that townhome. If it doubled in price like housing did from 2015-2023 and you had to buy it with 6% interest, it is a massively different scenario.

A POS townhome that's $600k is now going to run about $4000 per mo for mortgage.