Did Christian homophobia come from a mistranslation of the Bible?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how anyone could worship a god who created a subclass of people who loved in a certain way and then told them they were not allowed to love in that way or else they would go to hell. What kind of sicko mind would come up with such torture? To create some humans a certain way and then tell them they must deny themselves a crucial part of their humanity for their entire lives? Disgusting if it were so.

Luckily the god I worship would never be so cruel.

No human is a subclass.

Have you ever lied? Stolen anything? Done anything that you knew was wrong, but did it anyway? I have. And it was sin. God didn’t create us to throw our hands up and say “oh well. Guess I will do whatever I want.” We know when we sin, we die like to admit it. It makes is human to want to sin, as we all are sinful, but with God’s grace and strength we recognize our misdeeds/sins and try to turn away from them and do better.

I don’t think denying the urge to sin is denying my humanity. If we didn’t deny ourselves, what would we be? Slaves to emotion and greed and anger.

If a married person sees someone and says they love that person and sleeps with them, yes they did wrong. They should deny themselves and be faithful ti their spouse. If they can’t do that they should not have gotten married.

You’re comparing harming someone through stealing and lying to love between two people? This is why people leave religion.

And it also sounds like you must be asexual because you seem to imply you’d be able to repress your sexuality easily if you were told to.

NP
You are talking about love? Just calling it love doesn’t make it morally right.
How about we allow and celebrate love between adults and minor children?
How about we allow and celebrate love between humans and animals.
That’s love right? Not hurting anyone.

Don’t hide behind love to justify your sins.

Animals and children can't consent. Why do you compare a consenting adult relationship with animal and child rape? How do two adult men or women in a relationship affect you at all?

Mutual adult consent is necessary but not sufficient for moral sexuality. I agree that comparing homosexuality to bestiality or CSA is not helpful. But just because it's consensual does not make it morally right. You just snuck that premise in there.

If one doesnt think it's morally right, they don't have to engage.

What I believe is morally right is different than what you believe is morally right. Some people dont believe it's morally right to eat animals. I wholeheartedly support their right to not eat animals. I don't support those people trying to push their beliefs onto me or others. Same with this.

Perhaps you could make this case if you and your gay partner live alone on an island. But none of us do. Our moral decisions have knock on effects. Sometimes those indirect effects are more serious than the direct ones. Beyond those measurable indirect effects, society is also morally injured when it is forced to tolerate immorality.

So how do two men in a relationship affect you? Is literally tolerating their existence that much of a burden to you?

Not their existence. That is not at issue.

But their open, flagrant immorality, yes. That is a burden to society.

You still havent answered how two men or two women in a consensual adult relationship affects you at all.

How does people having sex in a public place affects you? Same for indecent exposure?
Why do you think we don’t allow it?
We could just ignore them? Right? Or maybe you would allow it?

Open and flagrant immorality isn’t good for society. It negatively affects people.

As long as people - gay or straight - aren’t having sex out in public then we are all good.

That’s your idea of morality? As long as people aren’t having public sex- anything goes? Seriously?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how anyone could worship a god who created a subclass of people who loved in a certain way and then told them they were not allowed to love in that way or else they would go to hell. What kind of sicko mind would come up with such torture? To create some humans a certain way and then tell them they must deny themselves a crucial part of their humanity for their entire lives? Disgusting if it were so.

Luckily the god I worship would never be so cruel.

No human is a subclass.

Have you ever lied? Stolen anything? Done anything that you knew was wrong, but did it anyway? I have. And it was sin. God didn’t create us to throw our hands up and say “oh well. Guess I will do whatever I want.” We know when we sin, we die like to admit it. It makes is human to want to sin, as we all are sinful, but with God’s grace and strength we recognize our misdeeds/sins and try to turn away from them and do better.

I don’t think denying the urge to sin is denying my humanity. If we didn’t deny ourselves, what would we be? Slaves to emotion and greed and anger.

If a married person sees someone and says they love that person and sleeps with them, yes they did wrong. They should deny themselves and be faithful ti their spouse. If they can’t do that they should not have gotten married.

You’re comparing harming someone through stealing and lying to love between two people? This is why people leave religion.

And it also sounds like you must be asexual because you seem to imply you’d be able to repress your sexuality easily if you were told to.

NP
You are talking about love? Just calling it love doesn’t make it morally right.
How about we allow and celebrate love between adults and minor children?
How about we allow and celebrate love between humans and animals.
That’s love right? Not hurting anyone.

Don’t hide behind love to justify your sins.

Animals and children can't consent. Why do you compare a consenting adult relationship with animal and child rape? How do two adult men or women in a relationship affect you at all?

Mutual adult consent is necessary but not sufficient for moral sexuality. I agree that comparing homosexuality to bestiality or CSA is not helpful. But just because it's consensual does not make it morally right. You just snuck that premise in there.

If one doesnt think it's morally right, they don't have to engage.

What I believe is morally right is different than what you believe is morally right. Some people dont believe it's morally right to eat animals. I wholeheartedly support their right to not eat animals. I don't support those people trying to push their beliefs onto me or others. Same with this.

Perhaps you could make this case if you and your gay partner live alone on an island. But none of us do. Our moral decisions have knock on effects. Sometimes those indirect effects are more serious than the direct ones. Beyond those measurable indirect effects, society is also morally injured when it is forced to tolerate immorality.

So how do two men in a relationship affect you? Is literally tolerating their existence that much of a burden to you?

Not their existence. That is not at issue.

But their open, flagrant immorality, yes. That is a burden to society.

You still havent answered how two men or two women in a consensual adult relationship affects you at all.

How does people having sex in a public place affects you? Same for indecent exposure?
Why do you think we don’t allow it?
We could just ignore them? Right? Or maybe you would allow it?

Open and flagrant immorality isn’t good for society. It negatively affects people.

As long as people - gay or straight - aren’t having sex out in public then we are all good.

That’s your idea of morality? As long as people aren’t having public sex- anything goes? Seriously?

The PP was concerned about “open and flagrant”. There is nothing immoral about committed, consenting adults having sex (gay or straight) privately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how anyone could worship a god who created a subclass of people who loved in a certain way and then told them they were not allowed to love in that way or else they would go to hell. What kind of sicko mind would come up with such torture? To create some humans a certain way and then tell them they must deny themselves a crucial part of their humanity for their entire lives? Disgusting if it were so.

Luckily the god I worship would never be so cruel.

No human is a subclass.

Have you ever lied? Stolen anything? Done anything that you knew was wrong, but did it anyway? I have. And it was sin. God didn’t create us to throw our hands up and say “oh well. Guess I will do whatever I want.” We know when we sin, we die like to admit it. It makes is human to want to sin, as we all are sinful, but with God’s grace and strength we recognize our misdeeds/sins and try to turn away from them and do better.

I don’t think denying the urge to sin is denying my humanity. If we didn’t deny ourselves, what would we be? Slaves to emotion and greed and anger.

If a married person sees someone and says they love that person and sleeps with them, yes they did wrong. They should deny themselves and be faithful ti their spouse. If they can’t do that they should not have gotten married.

You’re comparing harming someone through stealing and lying to love between two people? This is why people leave religion.

And it also sounds like you must be asexual because you seem to imply you’d be able to repress your sexuality easily if you were told to.

NP
You are talking about love? Just calling it love doesn’t make it morally right.
How about we allow and celebrate love between adults and minor children?
How about we allow and celebrate love between humans and animals.
That’s love right? Not hurting anyone.

Don’t hide behind love to justify your sins.

Animals and children can't consent. Why do you compare a consenting adult relationship with animal and child rape? How do two adult men or women in a relationship affect you at all?

They can’t consent because we said so and made it our laws.
Children could also rise up and complain about these laws being unfair, insisting that they are mature enough to consent.

That won’t change anything because We believe that even though the child claims to be in love with an adult, we won’t condone these types of relationships because they are immoral.

Btw, I’m surprised you said children can’t consent to sex, but you and your lgbtq friends think these same children can consent to gender affirming surgery without parental consent.

What about a 12 year who was impregnated without consent? Is that immoral?

Of course it is immoral.

Under Jewish law and cultural tradition during the time Jesus walked the earth, it was considered moral. It was the way Jewish people traditionally treated 12 year old girls- they could be married and bear their husband’s child/children. That was how it was then.

So morality can change over time.

Today in 2023, a gay couple can be married and have a family. And even have sex (just as straight couples do). Nothing immoral about that.

Bottom line. Morality changes over time. What was frowned upon thousands of years ago is ok today. And vice versa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how anyone could worship a god who created a subclass of people who loved in a certain way and then told them they were not allowed to love in that way or else they would go to hell. What kind of sicko mind would come up with such torture? To create some humans a certain way and then tell them they must deny themselves a crucial part of their humanity for their entire lives? Disgusting if it were so.

Luckily the god I worship would never be so cruel.

No human is a subclass.

Have you ever lied? Stolen anything? Done anything that you knew was wrong, but did it anyway? I have. And it was sin. God didn’t create us to throw our hands up and say “oh well. Guess I will do whatever I want.” We know when we sin, we die like to admit it. It makes is human to want to sin, as we all are sinful, but with God’s grace and strength we recognize our misdeeds/sins and try to turn away from them and do better.

I don’t think denying the urge to sin is denying my humanity. If we didn’t deny ourselves, what would we be? Slaves to emotion and greed and anger.

If a married person sees someone and says they love that person and sleeps with them, yes they did wrong. They should deny themselves and be faithful ti their spouse. If they can’t do that they should not have gotten married.

You’re comparing harming someone through stealing and lying to love between two people? This is why people leave religion.

And it also sounds like you must be asexual because you seem to imply you’d be able to repress your sexuality easily if you were told to.

NP
You are talking about love? Just calling it love doesn’t make it morally right.
How about we allow and celebrate love between adults and minor children?
How about we allow and celebrate love between humans and animals.
That’s love right? Not hurting anyone.

Don’t hide behind love to justify your sins.

Animals and children can't consent. Why do you compare a consenting adult relationship with animal and child rape? How do two adult men or women in a relationship affect you at all?

They can’t consent because we said so and made it our laws.
Children could also rise up and complain about these laws being unfair, insisting that they are mature enough to consent.

That won’t change anything because We believe that even though the child claims to be in love with an adult, we won’t condone these types of relationships because they are immoral.

Btw, I’m surprised you said children can’t consent to sex, but you and your lgbtq friends think these same children can consent to gender affirming surgery without parental consent.

What about a 12 year who was impregnated without consent? Is that immoral?

Of course it is immoral.

Under Jewish law and cultural tradition during the time Jesus walked the earth, it was considered moral. It was the way Jewish people traditionally treated 12 year old girls- they could be married and bear their husband’s child/children. That was how it was then.

So morality can change over time.

Today in 2023, a gay couple can be married and have a family. And even have sex (just as straight couples do). Nothing immoral about that.

Bottom line. Morality changes over time. What was frowned upon thousands of years ago is ok today. And vice versa.

Society's definition of morality is fluid, but the source from which true morality comes is unchanging; The two sadly are becoming further and further distanced and unrelated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how anyone could worship a god who created a subclass of people who loved in a certain way and then told them they were not allowed to love in that way or else they would go to hell. What kind of sicko mind would come up with such torture? To create some humans a certain way and then tell them they must deny themselves a crucial part of their humanity for their entire lives? Disgusting if it were so.

Luckily the god I worship would never be so cruel.

No human is a subclass.

Have you ever lied? Stolen anything? Done anything that you knew was wrong, but did it anyway? I have. And it was sin. God didn’t create us to throw our hands up and say “oh well. Guess I will do whatever I want.” We know when we sin, we die like to admit it. It makes is human to want to sin, as we all are sinful, but with God’s grace and strength we recognize our misdeeds/sins and try to turn away from them and do better.

I don’t think denying the urge to sin is denying my humanity. If we didn’t deny ourselves, what would we be? Slaves to emotion and greed and anger.

If a married person sees someone and says they love that person and sleeps with them, yes they did wrong. They should deny themselves and be faithful ti their spouse. If they can’t do that they should not have gotten married.

You’re comparing harming someone through stealing and lying to love between two people? This is why people leave religion.

And it also sounds like you must be asexual because you seem to imply you’d be able to repress your sexuality easily if you were told to.

NP
You are talking about love? Just calling it love doesn’t make it morally right.
How about we allow and celebrate love between adults and minor children?
How about we allow and celebrate love between humans and animals.
That’s love right? Not hurting anyone.

Don’t hide behind love to justify your sins.

Animals and children can't consent. Why do you compare a consenting adult relationship with animal and child rape? How do two adult men or women in a relationship affect you at all?

Mutual adult consent is necessary but not sufficient for moral sexuality. I agree that comparing homosexuality to bestiality or CSA is not helpful. But just because it's consensual does not make it morally right. You just snuck that premise in there.

If one doesnt think it's morally right, they don't have to engage.

What I believe is morally right is different than what you believe is morally right. Some people dont believe it's morally right to eat animals. I wholeheartedly support their right to not eat animals. I don't support those people trying to push their beliefs onto me or others. Same with this.

Perhaps you could make this case if you and your gay partner live alone on an island. But none of us do. Our moral decisions have knock on effects. Sometimes those indirect effects are more serious than the direct ones. Beyond those measurable indirect effects, society is also morally injured when it is forced to tolerate immorality.

So how do two men in a relationship affect you? Is literally tolerating their existence that much of a burden to you?

Not their existence. That is not at issue.

But their open, flagrant immorality, yes. That is a burden to society.

You still havent answered how two men or two women in a consensual adult relationship affects you at all.

How does people having sex in a public place affects you? Same for indecent exposure?
Why do you think we don’t allow it?
We could just ignore them? Right? Or maybe you would allow it?

Open and flagrant immorality isn’t good for society. It negatively affects people.

So you still havent answered. Good to know you don't have an answer, because it isnt a real issue.

Two women holding hands in public is not the same as indecent exposure. It's really disturbing that you keep equating same sex love/consensual sex as child rape, bestiality and other non-consensual acts. Its clear you have no idea what consent means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how anyone could worship a god who created a subclass of people who loved in a certain way and then told them they were not allowed to love in that way or else they would go to hell. What kind of sicko mind would come up with such torture? To create some humans a certain way and then tell them they must deny themselves a crucial part of their humanity for their entire lives? Disgusting if it were so.

Luckily the god I worship would never be so cruel.

No human is a subclass.

Have you ever lied? Stolen anything? Done anything that you knew was wrong, but did it anyway? I have. And it was sin. God didn’t create us to throw our hands up and say “oh well. Guess I will do whatever I want.” We know when we sin, we die like to admit it. It makes is human to want to sin, as we all are sinful, but with God’s grace and strength we recognize our misdeeds/sins and try to turn away from them and do better.

I don’t think denying the urge to sin is denying my humanity. If we didn’t deny ourselves, what would we be? Slaves to emotion and greed and anger.

If a married person sees someone and says they love that person and sleeps with them, yes they did wrong. They should deny themselves and be faithful ti their spouse. If they can’t do that they should not have gotten married.

You’re comparing harming someone through stealing and lying to love between two people? This is why people leave religion.

And it also sounds like you must be asexual because you seem to imply you’d be able to repress your sexuality easily if you were told to.

NP
You are talking about love? Just calling it love doesn’t make it morally right.
How about we allow and celebrate love between adults and minor children?
How about we allow and celebrate love between humans and animals.
That’s love right? Not hurting anyone.

Don’t hide behind love to justify your sins.

Animals and children can't consent. Why do you compare a consenting adult relationship with animal and child rape? How do two adult men or women in a relationship affect you at all?

They can’t consent because we said so and made it our laws.
Children could also rise up and complain about these laws being unfair, insisting that they are mature enough to consent.

That won’t change anything because We believe that even though the child claims to be in love with an adult, we won’t condone these types of relationships because they are immoral.

Btw, I’m surprised you said children can’t consent to sex, but you and your lgbtq friends think these same children can consent to gender affirming surgery without parental consent.

What about a 12 year who was impregnated without consent? Is that immoral?

Of course it is immoral.

Under Jewish law and cultural tradition during the time Jesus walked the earth, it was considered moral. It was the way Jewish people traditionally treated 12 year old girls- they could be married and bear their husband’s child/children. That was how it was then.

So morality can change over time.

Today in 2023, a gay couple can be married and have a family. And even have sex (just as straight couples do). Nothing immoral about that.

Bottom line. Morality changes over time. What was frowned upon thousands of years ago is ok today. And vice versa.

+1
I'm really confused about the poster who has now started posting torah quotes while this thread is about the bible. Do they want child marriage to come back? Or are they just proving the point about how fcked up "morality" was during jesus' time? It seems like the "morality" they want to go back to is child abuse, but oh noes, seeing two men holding hands will turn them gay!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how anyone could worship a god who created a subclass of people who loved in a certain way and then told them they were not allowed to love in that way or else they would go to hell. What kind of sicko mind would come up with such torture? To create some humans a certain way and then tell them they must deny themselves a crucial part of their humanity for their entire lives? Disgusting if it were so.

Luckily the god I worship would never be so cruel.

No human is a subclass.

Have you ever lied? Stolen anything? Done anything that you knew was wrong, but did it anyway? I have. And it was sin. God didn’t create us to throw our hands up and say “oh well. Guess I will do whatever I want.” We know when we sin, we die like to admit it. It makes is human to want to sin, as we all are sinful, but with God’s grace and strength we recognize our misdeeds/sins and try to turn away from them and do better.

I don’t think denying the urge to sin is denying my humanity. If we didn’t deny ourselves, what would we be? Slaves to emotion and greed and anger.

If a married person sees someone and says they love that person and sleeps with them, yes they did wrong. They should deny themselves and be faithful ti their spouse. If they can’t do that they should not have gotten married.

You’re comparing harming someone through stealing and lying to love between two people? This is why people leave religion.

And it also sounds like you must be asexual because you seem to imply you’d be able to repress your sexuality easily if you were told to.

NP
You are talking about love? Just calling it love doesn’t make it morally right.
How about we allow and celebrate love between adults and minor children?
How about we allow and celebrate love between humans and animals.
That’s love right? Not hurting anyone.

Don’t hide behind love to justify your sins.

Animals and children can't consent. Why do you compare a consenting adult relationship with animal and child rape? How do two adult men or women in a relationship affect you at all?

They can’t consent because we said so and made it our laws.
Children could also rise up and complain about these laws being unfair, insisting that they are mature enough to consent.

That won’t change anything because We believe that even though the child claims to be in love with an adult, we won’t condone these types of relationships because they are immoral.

Btw, I’m surprised you said children can’t consent to sex, but you and your lgbtq friends think these same children can consent to gender affirming surgery without parental consent.

What about a 12 year who was impregnated without consent? Is that immoral?

Of course it is immoral.

Under Jewish law and cultural tradition during the time Jesus walked the earth, it was considered moral. It was the way Jewish people traditionally treated 12 year old girls- they could be married and bear their husband’s child/children. That was how it was then.

So morality can change over time.

Today in 2023, a gay couple can be married and have a family. And even have sex (just as straight couples do). Nothing immoral about that.

Bottom line. Morality changes over time. What was frowned upon thousands of years ago is ok today. And vice versa.

+1
I'm really confused about the poster who has now started posting torah quotes while this thread is about the bible. Do they want child marriage to come back? Or are they just proving the point about how fcked up "morality" was during jesus' time? It seems like the "morality" they want to go back to is child abuse, but oh noes, seeing two men holding hands will turn them gay!

People are claiming Christianity is pro-child rape, but the child rape in the bible took place in Jewish culture.
Jewish culture treated women, girls, and war captives terribly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how anyone could worship a god who created a subclass of people who loved in a certain way and then told them they were not allowed to love in that way or else they would go to hell. What kind of sicko mind would come up with such torture? To create some humans a certain way and then tell them they must deny themselves a crucial part of their humanity for their entire lives? Disgusting if it were so.

Luckily the god I worship would never be so cruel.

No human is a subclass.

Have you ever lied? Stolen anything? Done anything that you knew was wrong, but did it anyway? I have. And it was sin. God didn’t create us to throw our hands up and say “oh well. Guess I will do whatever I want.” We know when we sin, we die like to admit it. It makes is human to want to sin, as we all are sinful, but with God’s grace and strength we recognize our misdeeds/sins and try to turn away from them and do better.

I don’t think denying the urge to sin is denying my humanity. If we didn’t deny ourselves, what would we be? Slaves to emotion and greed and anger.

If a married person sees someone and says they love that person and sleeps with them, yes they did wrong. They should deny themselves and be faithful ti their spouse. If they can’t do that they should not have gotten married.

You’re comparing harming someone through stealing and lying to love between two people? This is why people leave religion.

And it also sounds like you must be asexual because you seem to imply you’d be able to repress your sexuality easily if you were told to.

NP
You are talking about love? Just calling it love doesn’t make it morally right.
How about we allow and celebrate love between adults and minor children?
How about we allow and celebrate love between humans and animals.
That’s love right? Not hurting anyone.

Don’t hide behind love to justify your sins.

Animals and children can't consent. Why do you compare a consenting adult relationship with animal and child rape? How do two adult men or women in a relationship affect you at all?

They can’t consent because we said so and made it our laws.
Children could also rise up and complain about these laws being unfair, insisting that they are mature enough to consent.

That won’t change anything because We believe that even though the child claims to be in love with an adult, we won’t condone these types of relationships because they are immoral.

Btw, I’m surprised you said children can’t consent to sex, but you and your lgbtq friends think these same children can consent to gender affirming surgery without parental consent.

What about a 12 year who was impregnated without consent? Is that immoral?

Of course it is immoral.

Under Jewish law and cultural tradition during the time Jesus walked the earth, it was considered moral. It was the way Jewish people traditionally treated 12 year old girls- they could be married and bear their husband’s child/children. That was how it was then.

So morality can change over time.

Today in 2023, a gay couple can be married and have a family. And even have sex (just as straight couples do). Nothing immoral about that.

Bottom line. Morality changes over time. What was frowned upon thousands of years ago is ok today. And vice versa.

+1
I'm really confused about the poster who has now started posting torah quotes while this thread is about the bible. Do they want child marriage to come back? Or are they just proving the point about how fcked up "morality" was during jesus' time? It seems like the "morality" they want to go back to is child abuse, but oh noes, seeing two men holding hands will turn them gay!

People are claiming Christianity is pro-child rape, but the child rape in the bible took place in Jewish culture.
Jewish culture treated women, girls, and war captives terribly.

God was Jewish?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how anyone could worship a god who created a subclass of people who loved in a certain way and then told them they were not allowed to love in that way or else they would go to hell. What kind of sicko mind would come up with such torture? To create some humans a certain way and then tell them they must deny themselves a crucial part of their humanity for their entire lives? Disgusting if it were so.

Luckily the god I worship would never be so cruel.

No human is a subclass.

Have you ever lied? Stolen anything? Done anything that you knew was wrong, but did it anyway? I have. And it was sin. God didn’t create us to throw our hands up and say “oh well. Guess I will do whatever I want.” We know when we sin, we die like to admit it. It makes is human to want to sin, as we all are sinful, but with God’s grace and strength we recognize our misdeeds/sins and try to turn away from them and do better.

I don’t think denying the urge to sin is denying my humanity. If we didn’t deny ourselves, what would we be? Slaves to emotion and greed and anger.

If a married person sees someone and says they love that person and sleeps with them, yes they did wrong. They should deny themselves and be faithful ti their spouse. If they can’t do that they should not have gotten married.

You’re comparing harming someone through stealing and lying to love between two people? This is why people leave religion.

And it also sounds like you must be asexual because you seem to imply you’d be able to repress your sexuality easily if you were told to.

NP
You are talking about love? Just calling it love doesn’t make it morally right.
How about we allow and celebrate love between adults and minor children?
How about we allow and celebrate love between humans and animals.
That’s love right? Not hurting anyone.

Don’t hide behind love to justify your sins.

Animals and children can't consent. Why do you compare a consenting adult relationship with animal and child rape? How do two adult men or women in a relationship affect you at all?

They can’t consent because we said so and made it our laws.
Children could also rise up and complain about these laws being unfair, insisting that they are mature enough to consent.

That won’t change anything because We believe that even though the child claims to be in love with an adult, we won’t condone these types of relationships because they are immoral.

Btw, I’m surprised you said children can’t consent to sex, but you and your lgbtq friends think these same children can consent to gender affirming surgery without parental consent.

What about a 12 year who was impregnated without consent? Is that immoral?

Of course it is immoral.

Under Jewish law and cultural tradition during the time Jesus walked the earth, it was considered moral. It was the way Jewish people traditionally treated 12 year old girls- they could be married and bear their husband’s child/children. That was how it was then.

So morality can change over time.

Today in 2023, a gay couple can be married and have a family. And even have sex (just as straight couples do). Nothing immoral about that.

Bottom line. Morality changes over time. What was frowned upon thousands of years ago is ok today. And vice versa.

+1
I'm really confused about the poster who has now started posting torah quotes while this thread is about the bible. Do they want child marriage to come back? Or are they just proving the point about how fcked up "morality" was during jesus' time? It seems like the "morality" they want to go back to is child abuse, but oh noes, seeing two men holding hands will turn them gay!

People are claiming Christianity is pro-child rape, but the child rape in the bible took place in Jewish culture.
Jewish culture treated women, girls, and war captives terribly.

Some Christians treat women horribly in 2024. They want to force them to give birth against their will. No better than rapists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This recent doc makes sense to me. I am a straight Christian but value being part of a welcoming inclusive church. Jesus had nothing to say about homosexuality, many historians believe ast Owul’s condemnation was referring to ancient Roman practice of older men exploiting young boys (pedophilia) rather than homosexuality between consenting adults. The oft quoted Leviticus scriptures were in context of seemly conduct for the Temple - and if the reference to homosexuality being an abomination were a mistranslation, that makes sense to me.

We are all made in God’s image.

Did Christian homophobia come from a mistranslation of the Bible?

https://amp.theguardian.com/film/2023/dec/01/christian-homophobia-bible-mistranslation-1946-documentary

A new documentary challenges an alleged 1946 mistranslation that helped lead to a justification for Christian anti-gayness
Vivian Ho
Fri 1 Dec 2023

What if all the anti-gay, homophobic rhetoric that has come from the Christian right over these past few decades was rooted in a mistranslation of the Bible?
In the documentary, 1946: The Mistranslation that Shifted Culture, researchers and scholars delve into the 1946 mistranslation of 1 Corinthians 6:9 and explore how it fuelled the Christian anti-gay movement that still thrives today.

Well they got that whole bit about peace/cheese makers wrong so it wouldn’t surprise me if there are more errors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how anyone could worship a god who created a subclass of people who loved in a certain way and then told them they were not allowed to love in that way or else they would go to hell. What kind of sicko mind would come up with such torture? To create some humans a certain way and then tell them they must deny themselves a crucial part of their humanity for their entire lives? Disgusting if it were so.

Luckily the god I worship would never be so cruel.

No human is a subclass.

Have you ever lied? Stolen anything? Done anything that you knew was wrong, but did it anyway? I have. And it was sin. God didn’t create us to throw our hands up and say “oh well. Guess I will do whatever I want.” We know when we sin, we die like to admit it. It makes is human to want to sin, as we all are sinful, but with God’s grace and strength we recognize our misdeeds/sins and try to turn away from them and do better.

I don’t think denying the urge to sin is denying my humanity. If we didn’t deny ourselves, what would we be? Slaves to emotion and greed and anger.

If a married person sees someone and says they love that person and sleeps with them, yes they did wrong. They should deny themselves and be faithful ti their spouse. If they can’t do that they should not have gotten married.

You’re comparing harming someone through stealing and lying to love between two people? This is why people leave religion.

And it also sounds like you must be asexual because you seem to imply you’d be able to repress your sexuality easily if you were told to.

NP
You are talking about love? Just calling it love doesn’t make it morally right.
How about we allow and celebrate love between adults and minor children?
How about we allow and celebrate love between humans and animals.
That’s love right? Not hurting anyone.

Don’t hide behind love to justify your sins.

Animals and children can't consent. Why do you compare a consenting adult relationship with animal and child rape? How do two adult men or women in a relationship affect you at all?

They can’t consent because we said so and made it our laws.
Children could also rise up and complain about these laws being unfair, insisting that they are mature enough to consent.

That won’t change anything because We believe that even though the child claims to be in love with an adult, we won’t condone these types of relationships because they are immoral.

Btw, I’m surprised you said children can’t consent to sex, but you and your lgbtq friends think these same children can consent to gender affirming surgery without parental consent.

What about a 12 year who was impregnated without consent? Is that immoral?

Of course it is immoral.

Under Jewish law and cultural tradition during the time Jesus walked the earth, it was considered moral. It was the way Jewish people traditionally treated 12 year old girls- they could be married and bear their husband’s child/children. That was how it was then.

So morality can change over time.

Today in 2023, a gay couple can be married and have a family. And even have sex (just as straight couples do). Nothing immoral about that.

Bottom line. Morality changes over time. What was frowned upon thousands of years ago is ok today. And vice versa.

+1
I'm really confused about the poster who has now started posting torah quotes while this thread is about the bible. Do they want child marriage to come back? Or are they just proving the point about how fcked up "morality" was during jesus' time? It seems like the "morality" they want to go back to is child abuse, but oh noes, seeing two men holding hands will turn them gay!

People are claiming Christianity is pro-child rape, but the child rape in the bible took place in Jewish culture.
Jewish culture treated women, girls, and war captives terribly.

God was Jewish?

Jesus is Jewish. Jesus’ mother is Jewish. Jesus lived in Jewish communities. The OT testament deals with Jewish laws. Jewish people are God’s chosen people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how anyone could worship a god who created a subclass of people who loved in a certain way and then told them they were not allowed to love in that way or else they would go to hell. What kind of sicko mind would come up with such torture? To create some humans a certain way and then tell them they must deny themselves a crucial part of their humanity for their entire lives? Disgusting if it were so.

Luckily the god I worship would never be so cruel.

No human is a subclass.

Have you ever lied? Stolen anything? Done anything that you knew was wrong, but did it anyway? I have. And it was sin. God didn’t create us to throw our hands up and say “oh well. Guess I will do whatever I want.” We know when we sin, we die like to admit it. It makes is human to want to sin, as we all are sinful, but with God’s grace and strength we recognize our misdeeds/sins and try to turn away from them and do better.

I don’t think denying the urge to sin is denying my humanity. If we didn’t deny ourselves, what would we be? Slaves to emotion and greed and anger.

If a married person sees someone and says they love that person and sleeps with them, yes they did wrong. They should deny themselves and be faithful ti their spouse. If they can’t do that they should not have gotten married.

You’re comparing harming someone through stealing and lying to love between two people? This is why people leave religion.

And it also sounds like you must be asexual because you seem to imply you’d be able to repress your sexuality easily if you were told to.

NP
You are talking about love? Just calling it love doesn’t make it morally right.
How about we allow and celebrate love between adults and minor children?
How about we allow and celebrate love between humans and animals.
That’s love right? Not hurting anyone.

Don’t hide behind love to justify your sins.

Animals and children can't consent. Why do you compare a consenting adult relationship with animal and child rape? How do two adult men or women in a relationship affect you at all?

They can’t consent because we said so and made it our laws.
Children could also rise up and complain about these laws being unfair, insisting that they are mature enough to consent.

That won’t change anything because We believe that even though the child claims to be in love with an adult, we won’t condone these types of relationships because they are immoral.

Btw, I’m surprised you said children can’t consent to sex, but you and your lgbtq friends think these same children can consent to gender affirming surgery without parental consent.

What about a 12 year who was impregnated without consent? Is that immoral?

Of course it is immoral.

Under Jewish law and cultural tradition during the time Jesus walked the earth, it was considered moral. It was the way Jewish people traditionally treated 12 year old girls- they could be married and bear their husband’s child/children. That was how it was then.

So morality can change over time.

Today in 2023, a gay couple can be married and have a family. And even have sex (just as straight couples do). Nothing immoral about that.

Bottom line. Morality changes over time. What was frowned upon thousands of years ago is ok today. And vice versa.

+1
I'm really confused about the poster who has now started posting torah quotes while this thread is about the bible. Do they want child marriage to come back? Or are they just proving the point about how fcked up "morality" was during jesus' time? It seems like the "morality" they want to go back to is child abuse, but oh noes, seeing two men holding hands will turn them gay!

People are claiming Christianity is pro-child rape, but the child rape in the bible took place in Jewish culture.
Jewish culture treated women, girls, and war captives terribly.

Some Christians treat women horribly in 2024. They want to force them to give birth against their will. No better than rapists.

Women who have abortions choose to have sex and the baby is aborted because the mother elects to have an abortion. Over 95% of abortions are elective, which means the mother chooses to abort her baby. There are no medical issues with either the mother or baby’s health. The mother was not raped and is not a victim of incest.
Those women have been forced to have sex and became pregnant. The vast, overwhelming majority of women are not forced by Christians or anyone else to have sex, they have sex voluntarily.

Christians do value the life of both the mother and child. Both are equally valuable.

Nobody can force an egg to be fertilized by a sperm. If Christians open mass forced IVF clinics and send police to round up women and have IVF at gunpoint, you can say Christians force women to have babies.

Are women unaware that sex may result in pregnancy?
The pregnancy occurred because a woman chose to have sex. A baby should not die because mom had sex.

[Anonymous]

https://postbarthian.com/2017/10/11/clobber-verses-six-scriptures-cited-gays-lesbians-sex-relationships-lgbtq/

[Anonymous]

https://www.anglican.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/the-bodys-grace.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how anyone could worship a god who created a subclass of people who loved in a certain way and then told them they were not allowed to love in that way or else they would go to hell. What kind of sicko mind would come up with such torture? To create some humans a certain way and then tell them they must deny themselves a crucial part of their humanity for their entire lives? Disgusting if it were so.

Luckily the god I worship would never be so cruel.

No human is a subclass.

Have you ever lied? Stolen anything? Done anything that you knew was wrong, but did it anyway? I have. And it was sin. God didn’t create us to throw our hands up and say “oh well. Guess I will do whatever I want.” We know when we sin, we die like to admit it. It makes is human to want to sin, as we all are sinful, but with God’s grace and strength we recognize our misdeeds/sins and try to turn away from them and do better.

I don’t think denying the urge to sin is denying my humanity. If we didn’t deny ourselves, what would we be? Slaves to emotion and greed and anger.

If a married person sees someone and says they love that person and sleeps with them, yes they did wrong. They should deny themselves and be faithful ti their spouse. If they can’t do that they should not have gotten married.

You’re comparing harming someone through stealing and lying to love between two people? This is why people leave religion.

And it also sounds like you must be asexual because you seem to imply you’d be able to repress your sexuality easily if you were told to.

NP
You are talking about love? Just calling it love doesn’t make it morally right.
How about we allow and celebrate love between adults and minor children?
How about we allow and celebrate love between humans and animals.
That’s love right? Not hurting anyone.

Don’t hide behind love to justify your sins.

Animals and children can't consent. Why do you compare a consenting adult relationship with animal and child rape? How do two adult men or women in a relationship affect you at all?

They can’t consent because we said so and made it our laws.
Children could also rise up and complain about these laws being unfair, insisting that they are mature enough to consent.

That won’t change anything because We believe that even though the child claims to be in love with an adult, we won’t condone these types of relationships because they are immoral.

Btw, I’m surprised you said children can’t consent to sex, but you and your lgbtq friends think these same children can consent to gender affirming surgery without parental consent.

What about a 12 year who was impregnated without consent? Is that immoral?

Of course it is immoral.

Under Jewish law and cultural tradition during the time Jesus walked the earth, it was considered moral. It was the way Jewish people traditionally treated 12 year old girls- they could be married and bear their husband’s child/children. That was how it was then.

So morality can change over time.

Today in 2023, a gay couple can be married and have a family. And even have sex (just as straight couples do). Nothing immoral about that.

Bottom line. Morality changes over time. What was frowned upon thousands of years ago is ok today. And vice versa.

+1
I'm really confused about the poster who has now started posting torah quotes while this thread is about the bible. Do they want child marriage to come back? Or are they just proving the point about how fcked up "morality" was during jesus' time? It seems like the "morality" they want to go back to is child abuse, but oh noes, seeing two men holding hands will turn them gay!

People are claiming Christianity is pro-child rape, but the child rape in the bible took place in Jewish culture.
Jewish culture treated women, girls, and war captives terribly.

God was Jewish?

Of course.