The deflated grading is just exhausting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s not normal that in this country that being a student has evolved to be this hard to get good grades. It’s ludicrous. Everyone is so stressed. Kids can’t be kids anymore because of all the stupid pressure to perform and too much information overdrive being hurled at them every second. Not to mention the nasty culture they have to now navigate for fear of triggering people or getting canceled. We live in a very sick country.

The only kids who are overly stressed are the ones whose parents put their average child in an environment meant for above average students. They get to high school by having tutors and small classes only to realize how tough it’s going to be in a class full of naturally bright top student.

Students placed in the correct classes don’t feel this pressure whether it’s the students appropriately in all AP classes or the students in the appropriate basic classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My upperclassman is in a class where an essay turned by last week had an average grade of an 82%. This is what I mean by grade deflation.

My kid spent at least 10 hours on this (a one page essay) and received the average (82%).

It's just ridiculous. The school admitted kids who were at the very top of their sending public and private schools, refined them by fire for 2+ years
years (in very difficult humanities and writing classes) and is now continues to say, "oh no, despite your very best effort, most of you can only write at a B- level." I have a different kid in a top public and this would have been a 98% there. The standard at the private is just beyond unreasonable.

in 20
How long your student spends on something is completely irrelevant to the grade as I am sure you can understand. Does any supervisor you have ever had care about how long something took you or the quality of the work?

Whatever. You're being an ass and picking at the semantics of my post.
My reference to time was just to illustrate that my kid worked hard on this. It wasn't something she wrote in 30 minutes at 11pm. She gave best effort and it was very thoughtfully done and over the course of a week. Classmates were the same--they also all spent 5-15 hours on this---also all got Bs or Cs.

There is something messed up when you take kids who are actively trying to do their very best and are super bright and then you grade them to an average of a B-. And as another data point: this kid just got a 790 verbal SAT in October (1570 overall).

Just because some kid has a 790 verbal does not mean they can write beautiful essays or stories. Sorry, but there is usually a lot of room for improvement, even for kids who score 800. I got an 800 on the verbal SAT back in the day and got my writing torn apart in college whenever I took classes outside of my science major at a selective university. I wish my high school teachers had prepared me for the rigors of college level writing, so maybe your DC is lucky. Scoring well on a multiple choice standardized exam does not equal being a good writer. Writing is difficult and most people who want to be good writers need feedback and training.

I get that there is massive grade inflation elsewhere these days, and it's definitely true that any reasonably smart kid could breeze through and get an A at many schools without much effort. However, grade inflation is the PROBLEM, not the solution. This craziness has got to stop.

Ok, but it's hard when your child's school feels like the last holdout in America regarding not inflating grades. The DMV publics inflate like mad, the area Catholics and most of the other privates do as well (Bullis, Landon, Field being prime examples) and even to a lesser extent so do places like Maret and Holton. The NYC privates inflate like crazy as to the Baltimore privates. It was clear from data presented on last year that Harvard-Westlake inflates. I don't know enough about the top NE boarding schools to know how they grade.

There are really very few schools left in America who don't grade to an average of an A (or at least some form of an A).

I'm the PP you're responding to. I get that it's hard, but as many people pointed out, this is what you signed up for, and I do hope you can recognize that higher standards benefit your DC in many ways. I pulled my DC out of their previous school in large part due to the grade inflation and weak standards. It was a terrible and frustrating experience because she was learning very little.

Also, you don't have the data to make some of the claims about these other schools. I do wish that schools would be more transparent, though, and I wish more schools would publish their average GPAs.

The problem is you are rationalizing the environment in which you placed our kid. I get that you care about the weak standards and learning very little...but I doubt you would do anything if your current school adopted a more generous grading policy tomorrow.

They don't change one thing about your kid's experience, but simply tell teachers that they will curve their classes such that X% get an A, A-, B+, etc. that lifts the overall GPS of all students.

NOBODY at your school would complain.

I literally just told you that I pulled my kid out of a lax grading environment right? She is also much happier with the greater challenge, so it's not just that we are pushing her into something she doesn't want. Some people actually prefer higher standards and we don't want this option to disappear.

DP. I fall somewhere in the middle of this argument but I think it is sort of strange you want to impose this on your child. I would be thrilled for my child to get easy A’s.

My kid was bored to tears at the previous school and is thriving at the current school which is a supposed "pressure cooker." They are an academic type who loves this kind of challenge. There are SO many options for schools where you can get an easy A. I don't get why people put their kids in places where A's don't come easily, and this is a known fact, and then they complain about it.

Agree

If you don’t want your kid in a super rigorous school, don’t send them to a super rigorous school!

Grading and rigor are not the same. Not sure why anyone is equating the two. I assume Trinity, Horace Mann, Harvard Westlake, etc. are rigorous schools.

I would not mention Harvard Westlake in any conversation these days. They have sadly had 3 suicides within the past year there.

No, of course not. We wouldn’t want to actually talk about the very real effects of a highly stressful school culture. Nope. Nothing to see here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it OP. My DC lived through it too at a big 3 and it was so disheartening to have them work so hard with maximum effort to sometimes receive a B- in a class. I’d like to say it paid off, but not sure all the sleepless nights and lack of work/life balance was worth it. Only thing I learned was to not send younger DC to a big 3.

That happens in classes that you’re weak in. The most effort I ever put into a class was basic algebra in 9th grade. The only time I got after school help, everything I could. I got a C.

Just because you put hours into a class doesn’t mean you’re doing “A” work.

You're missing the point entirely. The point being that NO kids in some classes are doing well. They are full of bright kids who were accepted because they had 99% standardized test scores and were the stars of their sending middle schools and they do hours of work and the averages of tests and papers for entire classes are routinely a 70%.
It's not a question of kids not being in appropriate classes or kids not being appropriate for the school. Unless you're saying the entire student body is not appropriate for the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The point of going to a top 3 school is to get a demanding, rigorous education.

If you’re not happy with it, switch to public or Maret or field or someplace like that.

Was your child admitted early, like in kindergarten or elementary? Maybe it’s not the right fit.

Bs are one thing by getting multiple scores like 75 or 65 could be a sign your kid shouldn’t be of the school.

I tire The people who get their kids into super progress schools and then complain that they are too rigorous.

Transfer to MCPS. You will love the inflated grading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My upperclassman is in a class where an essay turned by last week had an average grade of an 82%. This is what I mean by grade deflation.

My kid spent at least 10 hours on this (a one page essay) and received the average (82%).

It's just ridiculous. The school admitted kids who were at the very top of their sending public and private schools, refined them by fire for 2+ years
years (in very difficult humanities and writing classes) and is now continues to say, "oh no, despite your very best effort, most of you can only write at a B- level." I have a different kid in a top public and this would have been a 98% there. The standard at the private is just beyond unreasonable.

in 20
How long your student spends on something is completely irrelevant to the grade as I am sure you can understand. Does any supervisor you have ever had care about how long something took you or the quality of the work?

Whatever. You're being an ass and picking at the semantics of my post.
My reference to time was just to illustrate that my kid worked hard on this. It wasn't something she wrote in 30 minutes at 11pm. She gave best effort and it was very thoughtfully done and over the course of a week. Classmates were the same--they also all spent 5-15 hours on this---also all got Bs or Cs.

There is something messed up when you take kids who are actively trying to do their very best and are super bright and then you grade them to an average of a B-. And as another data point: this kid just got a 790 verbal SAT in October (1570 overall).

Just because some kid has a 790 verbal does not mean they can write beautiful essays or stories. Sorry, but there is usually a lot of room for improvement, even for kids who score 800. I got an 800 on the verbal SAT back in the day and got my writing torn apart in college whenever I took classes outside of my science major at a selective university. I wish my high school teachers had prepared me for the rigors of college level writing, so maybe your DC is lucky. Scoring well on a multiple choice standardized exam does not equal being a good writer. Writing is difficult and most people who want to be good writers need feedback and training.

I get that there is massive grade inflation elsewhere these days, and it's definitely true that any reasonably smart kid could breeze through and get an A at many schools without much effort. However, grade inflation is the PROBLEM, not the solution. This craziness has got to stop.

Ok, but it's hard when your child's school feels like the last holdout in America regarding not inflating grades. The DMV publics inflate like mad, the area Catholics and most of the other privates do as well (Bullis, Landon, Field being prime examples) and even to a lesser extent so do places like Maret and Holton. The NYC privates inflate like crazy as to the Baltimore privates. It was clear from data presented on last year that Harvard-Westlake inflates. I don't know enough about the top NE boarding schools to know how they grade.

There are really very few schools left in America who don't grade to an average of an A (or at least some form of an A).

Where is the notion that DMV publics inflate like mad coming from? If you look at JR's school profile, only 25 kids out of nearly 500 have a perfect 4.0 unweighted. About a 100 kids have GPAs from 3.5-3.9. That's not much of grade inflation. Also, math education can't be all that rigorous in the area privates. Last year, only a handful of kids from all the big 3 qualified for AIME and one made USA(J)MO.

Source?

I posted a link to JR school profile upthread. As for math competitions, DS is friends with a bunch of GDS/St.A kids who take part in math competitions and that's how he knows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My upperclassman is in a class where an essay turned by last week had an average grade of an 82%. This is what I mean by grade deflation.

My kid spent at least 10 hours on this (a one page essay) and received the average (82%).

It's just ridiculous. The school admitted kids who were at the very top of their sending public and private schools, refined them by fire for 2+ years
years (in very difficult humanities and writing classes) and is now continues to say, "oh no, despite your very best effort, most of you can only write at a B- level." I have a different kid in a top public and this would have been a 98% there. The standard at the private is just beyond unreasonable.

in 20
How long your student spends on something is completely irrelevant to the grade as I am sure you can understand. Does any supervisor you have ever had care about how long something took you or the quality of the work?

Whatever. You're being an ass and picking at the semantics of my post.
My reference to time was just to illustrate that my kid worked hard on this. It wasn't something she wrote in 30 minutes at 11pm. She gave best effort and it was very thoughtfully done and over the course of a week. Classmates were the same--they also all spent 5-15 hours on this---also all got Bs or Cs.

There is something messed up when you take kids who are actively trying to do their very best and are super bright and then you grade them to an average of a B-. And as another data point: this kid just got a 790 verbal SAT in October (1570 overall).

Just because some kid has a 790 verbal does not mean they can write beautiful essays or stories. Sorry, but there is usually a lot of room for improvement, even for kids who score 800. I got an 800 on the verbal SAT back in the day and got my writing torn apart in college whenever I took classes outside of my science major at a selective university. I wish my high school teachers had prepared me for the rigors of college level writing, so maybe your DC is lucky. Scoring well on a multiple choice standardized exam does not equal being a good writer. Writing is difficult and most people who want to be good writers need feedback and training.

I get that there is massive grade inflation elsewhere these days, and it's definitely true that any reasonably smart kid could breeze through and get an A at many schools without much effort. However, grade inflation is the PROBLEM, not the solution. This craziness has got to stop.

Ok, but it's hard when your child's school feels like the last holdout in America regarding not inflating grades. The DMV publics inflate like mad, the area Catholics and most of the other privates do as well (Bullis, Landon, Field being prime examples) and even to a lesser extent so do places like Maret and Holton. The NYC privates inflate like crazy as to the Baltimore privates. It was clear from data presented on last year that Harvard-Westlake inflates. I don't know enough about the top NE boarding schools to know how they grade.

There are really very few schools left in America who don't grade to an average of an A (or at least some form of an A).

Where is the notion that DMV publics inflate like mad coming from? If you look at JR's school profile, only 25 kids out of nearly 500 have a perfect 4.0 unweighted. About a 100 kids have GPAs from 3.5-3.9. That's not much of grade inflation. Also, math education can't be all that rigorous in the area privates. Last year, only a handful of kids from all the big 3 qualified for AIME and one made USA(J)MO. [/quote

Frankly students at these math exams are not something that is ever mentioned by the math departments at the Big3. I have STEM kids at two different Big3 schools including one who is head of the math club and I've never heard of AIME.

I don't know why. At the most recent Harvard-MIT math tournament, many of the well-known NE privates were in attendance (Andover, Exeter, Hotchkiss) and they are pretty proud of their kids who make it to USA(J)MO and to the IMO selection camps etc. Harker and Harvard-Westlake field teams as well. Maybe it is a DC Big 3 thing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not normal that in this country that being a student has evolved to be this hard to get good grades. It’s ludicrous. Everyone is so stressed. Kids can’t be kids anymore because of all the stupid pressure to perform and too much information overdrive being hurled at them every second. Not to mention the nasty culture they have to now navigate for fear of triggering people or getting canceled. We live in a very sick country.

The only kids who are overly stressed are the ones whose parents put their average child in an environment meant for above average students. They get to high school by having tutors and small classes only to realize how tough it’s going to be in a class full of naturally bright top student.

Students placed in the correct classes don’t feel this pressure whether it’s the students appropriately in all AP classes or the students in the appropriate basic classes.

Or, students who are perfectly happy to learn and get a B are also no stressed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My upperclassman is in a class where an essay turned by last week had an average grade of an 82%. This is what I mean by grade deflation.

My kid spent at least 10 hours on this (a one page essay) and received the average (82%).

It's just ridiculous. The school admitted kids who were at the very top of their sending public and private schools, refined them by fire for 2+ years
years (in very difficult humanities and writing classes) and is now continues to say, "oh no, despite your very best effort, most of you can only write at a B- level." I have a different kid in a top public and this would have been a 98% there. The standard at the private is just beyond unreasonable.

in 20
How long your student spends on something is completely irrelevant to the grade as I am sure you can understand. Does any supervisor you have ever had care about how long something took you or the quality of the work?

Whatever. You're being an ass and picking at the semantics of my post.
My reference to time was just to illustrate that my kid worked hard on this. It wasn't something she wrote in 30 minutes at 11pm. She gave best effort and it was very thoughtfully done and over the course of a week. Classmates were the same--they also all spent 5-15 hours on this---also all got Bs or Cs.

There is something messed up when you take kids who are actively trying to do their very best and are super bright and then you grade them to an average of a B-. And as another data point: this kid just got a 790 verbal SAT in October (1570 overall).

Just because some kid has a 790 verbal does not mean they can write beautiful essays or stories. Sorry, but there is usually a lot of room for improvement, even for kids who score 800. I got an 800 on the verbal SAT back in the day and got my writing torn apart in college whenever I took classes outside of my science major at a selective university. I wish my high school teachers had prepared me for the rigors of college level writing, so maybe your DC is lucky. Scoring well on a multiple choice standardized exam does not equal being a good writer. Writing is difficult and most people who want to be good writers need feedback and training.

I get that there is massive grade inflation elsewhere these days, and it's definitely true that any reasonably smart kid could breeze through and get an A at many schools without much effort. However, grade inflation is the PROBLEM, not the solution. This craziness has got to stop.

Ok, but it's hard when your child's school feels like the last holdout in America regarding not inflating grades. The DMV publics inflate like mad, the area Catholics and most of the other privates do as well (Bullis, Landon, Field being prime examples) and even to a lesser extent so do places like Maret and Holton. The NYC privates inflate like crazy as to the Baltimore privates. It was clear from data presented on last year that Harvard-Westlake inflates. I don't know enough about the top NE boarding schools to know how they grade.

There are really very few schools left in America who don't grade to an average of an A (or at least some form of an A).

Where is the notion that DMV publics inflate like mad coming from? If you look at JR's school profile, only 25 kids out of nearly 500 have a perfect 4.0 unweighted. About a 100 kids have GPAs from 3.5-3.9. That's not much of grade inflation. Also, math education can't be all that rigorous in the area privates. Last year, only a handful of kids from all the big 3 qualified for AIME and one made USA(J)MO. [/quote

Frankly students at these math exams are not something that is ever mentioned by the math departments at the Big3. I have STEM kids at two different Big3 schools including one who is head of the math club and I've never heard of AIME.

I don't know why. At the most recent Harvard-MIT math tournament, many of the well-known NE privates were in attendance (Andover, Exeter, Hotchkiss) and they are pretty proud of their kids who make it to USA(J)MO and to the IMO selection camps etc. Harker and Harvard-Westlake field teams as well. Maybe it is a DC Big 3 thing?

Is it a thing at any DC private school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it OP. My DC lived through it too at a big 3 and it was so disheartening to have them work so hard with maximum effort to sometimes receive a B- in a class. I’d like to say it paid off, but not sure all the sleepless nights and lack of work/life balance was worth it. Only thing I learned was to not send younger DC to a big 3.

That happens in classes that you’re weak in. The most effort I ever put into a class was basic algebra in 9th grade. The only time I got after school help, everything I could. I got a C.

Just because you put hours into a class doesn’t mean you’re doing “A” work.

You're missing the point entirely. The point being that NO kids in some classes are doing well. They are full of bright kids who were accepted because they had 99% standardized test scores and were the stars of their sending middle schools and they do hours of work and the averages of tests and papers for entire classes are routinely a 70%.
It's not a question of kids not being in appropriate classes or kids not being appropriate for the school. Unless you're saying the entire student body is not appropriate for the school.

The OP was confusing. She was claiming low average class test scores and average grades “B”But then she claimed her kid was straight A student. It’s not clear from that information if any students are failing, how many are also getting As. Maybe there was grade inflation in the middle schools but not in this high school.

Whatever reason I guess that means the teachers will have to dumb down the curriculum or the school needs to accept that the average student in their school is learning the curriculum in the B level range. Some students are having a much tougher time than others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The point of going to a top 3 school is to get a demanding, rigorous education.

If you’re not happy with it, switch to public or Maret or field or someplace like that.

Was your child admitted early, like in kindergarten or elementary? Maybe it’s not the right fit.

Bs are one thing by getting multiple scores like 75 or 65 could be a sign your kid shouldn’t be of the school.

I tire The people who get their kids into super progress schools and then complain that they are too rigorous.

Oh please, not the OP but you are full of it. And, your reading comprehension is lacking. OP said what class averages were really low. Her child is doing much better than the lower average. The OP takes issue with the excessively unnecessary grind combined with the harsh and demoralizing grading. I agree with OP, as someone who has three kids at a big three, that the grade deflation is ridiculous and unnecessary. The kids should be graded fairly. A work deserves an A. Stupid to force a curve or grade distribution, doesn't add anything to the rigor or what the kids are learning. Before you say well go to another school, options are bleak. It shouldn't be all or nothing but it is. If you want your child to get a certain kind of education that there are tradeoffs. Doesn't mean we as parents have to be happy with the bad.

Some of the students did do “A” work because the OP said her child did and they received an “A”. You have no idea what’s happening with regard to grades. A lot of parents over estimate their children’s abilities.

The OPs child is doing well and is putting in the long hours. That will serve him well in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have zero sympathy for rich people who spend tens of thousands a year to send their kids to private schools because they think they’re either too good for public schools or are afraid of brown, black or poor people and because they’re obsessed with getting their kids into colleges that impress their friends and then complain about how hard their kid has it.

They don’t. You don’t. Cry me a friggin River.

This is the definition of a straw man argument. You made up a bunch of nonsense, assigned it as the reason that *everyone as a collective* sends their kids there, and then judged them for it. Your envy is letting your nonsense ideas live rent free in your head.

+1. Weird fanfic.

tHe onLY reASoNs aNYoNe SEndS Their Kids tO PRIVatE SCHOoL aRe BecausE THEY’rE SnObS oR racIsT or ObsESSEd wItH coLLege aDMiSsIONs!

There are no other possible reasons under the sun. Case closed.

People, man.

My husband went to an excellent private school because he got kicked out of public school at 15 years old. Some went to residential schools nearby because their parents traveled a lot. Plenty of reasons people don’t even think of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:C = Average
B = Above Average
A = Excellent

Most students should not be receiving A's. If the majority is excellent, then it becomes the norm not the exception.

Very old fashioned and highly dubious model.

Students who can demonstrate that they have mastered the content and done all assignments to a high standard should get As irrespective of how many others do or do not master the material covered.

I agree. That’s why I think the low grades at the OPs school have to do with students not fully mastering the content. If they studied a subject and tested 70% on the subject that would mean they mastered about 3/4s of the content studied. Maybe the teachers are cramming too much in a short period of time. Maybe not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have zero sympathy for rich people who spend tens of thousands a year to send their kids to private schools because they think they’re either too good for public schools or are afraid of brown, black or poor people and because they’re obsessed with getting their kids into colleges that impress their friends and then complain about how hard their kid has it.

They don’t. You don’t. Cry me a friggin River.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not normal that in this country that being a student has evolved to be this hard to get good grades. It’s ludicrous. Everyone is so stressed. Kids can’t be kids anymore because of all the stupid pressure to perform and too much information overdrive being hurled at them every second. Not to mention the nasty culture they have to now navigate for fear of triggering people or getting canceled. We live in a very sick country.

The only kids who are overly stressed are the ones whose parents put their average child in an environment meant for above average students. They get to high school by having tutors and small classes only to realize how tough it’s going to be in a class full of naturally bright top student.

Students placed in the correct classes don’t feel this pressure whether it’s the students appropriately in all AP classes or the students in the appropriate basic classes.

Well, that’s complete and total BS. I have a child whose IQ is 150+, and they are highly stressed not because the work is hard but because there’s so much drudge and rote work that it squeezes out time for other things they love.

They also have teachers who are mean-spirited tyrants who grade on things that have nothing to do with the quality of work, like the one who takes points off for not indenting or spacing precisely the way she wants. Two spaces after each period, thank you very much. Miss one space or have an excessive space anywhere in your paper and you get 5 points taken off your grade for every instance. Get your spacing wrong 3 times in a paper and your A+ paper based on writing is now a B based on spacing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In my experience (3 kids) I think what happens in part is that these schools grade to the smartest kid in the room and then curve down accordingly. For instance, there will be one kid (or a handful) in sophomore English who can write an essay worthy of a senior seminar class in a college English class. So there are your As. And the grades go down from that. The kids who are just "very good writers" and turn in "very good for a sophomore in high school" level work get a B.

It's the same in math. My kid is currently in math class beyond calculus. She has a perfect math SAT score. She's good at math but this class is HARD. The average on tests is about a 75. But there is always one kid who manages to get a 98. So there goes any curve or corrections. There is your A. And everyone goes down from there.

I don't know what other schools or districts do in these cases when you have a few extreme outliers. The kids at these top privates are almost all very strong students and were admitted to the private (most of them) because they were at the top at their sending schools. But in each subject there tend to be few kids who is outlandishly gifted. And then they scoop up the 2 As in that class.

That’s what they will encounter in life. Your daughter has a perfect SAT math score but that’s not difficult math. Now she’s in a difficult math class.

If there’s only one kid who can completely and accurately complete the math test then there is only one A. Why would someone who couldn’t finish the test accurately get an A?

There’s a hypocrisy here. A lot of sneers about public schools handing out “A”s for students who get 70% on tests and then complaining when the private school doesn’t do the same.

The extremely smart kids in the real 99th percentile will get all As. And down the line it goes. If there are a few students who accomplish mastering the class that means it can be done and students not doing as well shouldn’t minimize their achievement by whining No Fair!